Who Destroyed Metal?

[legionserial]

So now you're saying that commercial viability is what makes music worthwhile? That's even sillier than you're last point. There's alot of music out there besides metal that isn't exactly blowing up the radio. Do you hold the same opinion of that?

I pride myself on not thinking like you. I'm just going to leave it at that.

Amen brother...

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to metalhead28 again"

 

[legionserial]

Goddammit...

I didn't make no double post man...I swear to god...You can't prove nothin...

 

[ggunn]

Why does everybody feel like they have to bring up the "lack of feel" thing any time this sort of thing is duscussed? Somebody brings this up and then proceeds to mention some other arbitrary guitar player who can "pack more feeling into 2 notes than a shredder can in 200" or something like that. Give me a break...I've heard that a million times...it's fucking tired.
Is it so hard to understand that some poeple like listening to frantic and exciting guitar solos? Some people like slow and emotional ones, I can dig that and I like them too, but just because you don't see the value in other types of playing doesn't mean it doesn't have any. It's just a different sort of expression. And yes, at a metal show the audience likes it. Where would you possibly get the idea that people don't like fast soloing at a metal show? If the music is fast and agressive, not many metal fans want to hear a couple of slow pentatonic licks and one sweet bend to go with it....

And metal bands aren't the only ones who shred. Listen to Red Volker and Cindy Cashdollar rip through "Truck Drivin' Man" some time.

 

[metalhead28]

And metal bands aren't the only ones who shred. Listen to Red Volker and Cindy Cashdollar rip through "Truck Drivin' Man" some time.

Oh absolutely true.
Allan Holdsworth is a monster, and I would never confuse his material with metal either!

By the way....he doesn't get any airplay either as far as I know. Definitely less than metal.

 

[legionserial]

...some of the progressive Jazz out there. You don't hear much of that on the radio either...

In addition, isn't it time this thread got destroyed? Otherwise I can see me regurgitating the same thing over and over to the next person who claims that metal is dead.

 

[juststartingout]

So now you're saying that commercial viability is what makes music worthwhile? That's even sillier than you're last point. There's alot of music out there besides metal that isn't exactly blowing up the radio. Do you hold the same opinion of that?

I pride myself on not thinking like you. I'm just going to leave it at that.

No I am not saying that it is not worth while.

I am saying that if you don't sell the music, you can't afford to make more. If you can't afford to make more, it will die. It may be fun to play and worthwhile, but it will be dead nevertheless.

 

[cephus]

So now you're saying that commercial viability is what makes music worthwhile? That's even sillier than you're last point. There's alot of music out there besides metal that isn't exactly blowing up the radio. Do you hold the same opinion of that?

I pride myself on not thinking like you. I'm just going to leave it at that.

He didn't say anything about your music being "worthwhile". No one is trying to convince you to not play your music. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for it to regain popularity when compared with the garbage on the radio today.

The thread is "What killed metal?" We can argue what constitutes death, but I think a bunch of musicians should have enough imagination to see the analogy.

Metal is not really what it once was. It was much more pervasive in the media in general. It has 100% to do with record sales.

It may have a small percentage to do with the antagonistic tendencies of the fanbase...

 

[metalhead28]

No I am not saying that it is not worth while.

I am saying that if you don't sell the music, you can't afford to make more. If you can't afford to make more, it will die. It may be fun to play and worthwhile, but it will be dead nevertheless.

If it's fun to play and worthwhile, how can it ever just....die?
Most metal artists could care less about record sales, they're not going to stop cause they can't match pop music with record sales. And how is metal different from any other form of music that doesn't sell big?

Hell, I don't sell any music and I'll never stop making it. Doesn't any musicain feel about the same?

 

[ggunn]

If it's fun to play and worthwhile, how can it ever just....die?
Most metal artists could care less about record sales, they're not going to stop cause they can't match pop music with record sales. And how is metal different from any other form of music that doesn't sell big?

Hell, I don't sell any music and I'll never stop making it. Doesn't any musicain feel about the same?

If disco didn't die a deservedly nasty death, then no music can ever die.

 

[legionserial]

No I am not saying that it is not worth while.

I am saying that if you don't sell the music, you can't afford to make more. If you can't afford to make more, it will die. It may be fun to play and worthwhile, but it will be dead nevertheless.

Just because music doesn't sell enough to get on big radio stations doesn't mean its dead. Again, none of the bands over here get radio airplay. I have never heard Lamb of God on the radio over here (let me know if you want me to drop anymore 'unradioed' names), but they have a pretty big fan base.

Metal fans hear the music through other mediums than radio. Half the bands I listen to I first saw supporting another band I watched. usually a band I heard on a website or on a CD in a magazine.

We metallers know our music doesn't fit on the radio. So we look for it elsewhere. Radio is not the be all and end all of whether a band is having any success. And success is raltive. Before Machine Head (another band I have never heard on UK radio) recorded 'Through the Ashes of Empires', they were pennyless with no record deal.

To a lot of us, success is being able to play a few live shows and getting a good feeling off of the audience.

Metal is different to other types of music. It doesn't sell based on trends. It doesn't sell on image (at least not to its core fan base). It sell on one thing and one thing alone. The people buying it like the music. You don't need radio for that.

A lot of other music has to be marketed, has to be played on the radio, and to some extent the people listening it have to be told to like it. You know why? Because it sucks.

People think for music to be classified as good, it has to have been packaged and sold. Thats total bullshit. A friend of mine plays piano, he just tinkers away, and I love listening. He likes listening to me play guitar. To us both thats worth more than record sales.

Good music does not need radio airplay or a dollar figure attached to it.

I have been writing my own music since I was 14...for 12 years now. I have never made a damn penny out of it. Does that mean my music is dead? Does that mean I should give up? Cos I enjoy it, and therfore its very much alive to me.

In fact, I would be inclined to say that if it wasn't for the life metal gave me, I may well be half dead by now. Because it's my reason for exsisting, and there aren't a lot of other reasons a lot of the time....

2 memorable gigs...Metallica a few months ago, Machine Head a few years ago. Both put a lump in my throat. Why? Because I grew up listening to that shit, and to see it there in front of me, larger than life, belting out the tunes that molded me. It got me right here *puts hand to heart*. That shit means something to me. And I defy anyone to call anything that can do that "dead".

 

[ggunn]

Just because music doesn't sell enough to get on big radio stations doesn't mean its dead.

True enough. The best example of this that I can think of is/was the Grateful Dead. They only had a couple of songs that ever got mainstream airplay, although they were arguably one of the most successful bands that ever was. Jerry has been dead for more than 10 years (actually eleven years day after tomorrow), and they still have a huge international fan base.

 

[juststartingout]

2 memorable gigs...Metallica a few months ago, Machine Head a few years ago. Both put a lump in my throat. Why? Because I grew up listening to that shit

And if it wasn't on the radio and you didn't buy their music, you would not have grown up listening to that shit.

That is the point of why it's DEAD. No airplay, no fans, certain death!!

 

[legionserial]

Another example is that I have never sold or marketed a single bit of my music, but nonetheless some of it is possibly planned to be on the soundtrack of a film being shown at Cannes next year.

Not bragging or anything, got no illusions of anything coming of it, other than the honor that someone trusts my music enough to put it to their work. And that is a real honor. Especially with my scruffy-assed music.

What I'm saying is, is that, again, there are other ways than radio airplay to get your stuff heard. And I would rather that my music was getting heard by people as part of something functional than just crammed down the unwitting publics throats ad nauseum.

All music has a place somewhere, be it in someones heart or on the radio or on a film. The difference is that music that is made for the radio is made to make money, and not neccessarily as a conduit for artistic expression. And if it doesn't stem from emotion, and rather money instead, then it won't affect emotion, just someones bank balance. And to me, music that doesn't affect your feelings in someway isn't doing what it should

 

[metalhead28]

And if it wasn't on the radio and you didn't buy their music, you would not have grown up listening to that shit.

That is the point of why it's DEAD. No airplay, no fans, certain death!!

The metal that I grew up listening to was never on the radio, it was records and tapes traded between friends. What does the radio have to do with anything?

I can't believe you think metal has no fanbase. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

 

[legionserial]

And if it wasn't on the radio and you didn't buy their music, you would not have grown up listening to that shit.

That is the point of why it's DEAD. No airplay, no fans, certain death!!

Absolutely wrong. I guess I will have to tell you exactly how I got into those bands.

When I was little I went to see Bill & Teds Bogus Journey at the cinema. It had a pretty cool soundtrack. So I bought the soundtrack on tape. That had a Megadeth tune on it called "Go to Hell". From that one tune I proceeded to pester my parents a christmas and birthdays to get me what turned out to be 'my Megadeth collection'. The 1 tape also intoduced me to a whole bunch of other metal bands. Yes a fair few were 80's hair bands.

Then a few years later, a guy played me a Metallica tape. I loved it. He got that tape off his brother, who probably heard it from a friend and so on....

What you have to understand is, in the UK, metal was not played on the radio. It was hated over here. Us metallers were picked on for as long as I can remember. It was not ever considered 'trendy' or 'cool' for as long as I can remember over here.

I have always hated the radio because it never ever played any of the music I liked. We don't have whole host of radio stations over here. The ones we do have are either whats popular now, or what used to be popular 40 years ago. There is no and never was any room for metal on UK radio.

Metal is immensly popular over here and in the rest of Europe at the moment. But its still considered 'not cool'. Considering its popularity, and the fact that there is no, I repeat, no metal played on the radio over here, I would say that radio isn't everything.

 

[Greg_L]

And if it wasn't on the radio and you didn't buy their music, you would not have grown up listening to that shit.

That is the point of why it's DEAD. No airplay, no fans, certain death!!

dude, where do you get your logic? radio? who the fuck listens to the radio for their music besides pre-teens and country folk? i grew up listening to (and still do) classic punk and early metal. you couldnt hear the ramones, johnny thunders, the clash, misfits, early priest, motorhead, metallica, megadeth, dead kennedys, or black flag on ANY radio station......yet......i have hundreds of albums of that type of stuff. you dont hear them on the radio. you hear about them from friends, friends big brothers, cousins, etc. half of my early collection was dubs of dubs from some tape some guy had at school. theres also no denying the impact and influence those type of bands had on whats called 'metal' today. metallica has covered 'last caress', 'green hell', and 'die die die my darling' on a few of their albums. those are misfits songs. do you think they learned those songs from the radio?

 

[ggunn]

And if it wasn't on the radio and you didn't buy their music, you would not have grown up listening to that shit.

That is the point of why it's DEAD. No airplay, no fans, certain death!!

The radio is not the only way to reach a fanbase. I guess you have your opinion and you're welcome to it, but just believing it doesn't make it so. I don't care for metal myself, but that's just a matter of taste. It ain't dead by a long shot.

 

[juststartingout]

The metal that I grew up listening to was never on the radio, it was records and tapes traded between friends. What does the radio have to do with anything?

I can't believe you think metal has no fanbase. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

I didn't say that it doesn't have a fan base. It does have a shrinking fan base. Hell, disco even still has a fan base, as does the vocal groups (doo-wap) of the 50's, but how many groups are bringing out new doo-wap stuff.

And radio play is everything. Why? - because it allows millions of people to hear your stuff and that is how you to pick up fans.

 

[Greg_L]

maybe im just being nostalgic, but i think todays 'metal' sucks. sure, its more technical and 'heavier', but none of it makes me want to drive fast. to me, its just over-technical and i think drop B tuning usually sounds like ass. i think every song should be 'hellbent for leather'.

 

[Greg_L]

and why is 'bad religion' on that list? theyre not, and never were 'metal'. they have nothing even to do with metal, good or bad. you might as well have put patsy cline up there.