Ampex MM-1000 Story...

[sweetbeats]

Jpmorris' supposition is my favorite so far.

I do have room for a space shuttle on my property though the access isn't good for the crawler. Hm...

Where's the Stephens deck and quad 8? I'll go get that...heheh.

Muck, I'll have to Google phonautograph... :???: its not that.

No its not really all that exciting I suppose...its another 2" headblock with a potential caviat and it wasn't free at all but depending on how it checks out it may be a very good deal. I'm just pretty jazzed about the potential as a machine is only as good as the heads and that is a taller and more concerning order on a machine like this because heads are REALLY expensive and much harder to come by, so when something comes along that is a good deal and possibly a REALLY good deal (relatively speaking) its sort of relieving in a way. I've been working on this since January. Its not like owning a TSR-8 you know? Which is actually an excellent argument for machines like the TSR-8 in terms of the heads you know? There's a complete low-hours block assembly for the TSR-8 on eBay for under $100 right now...looks clean etc. The market on MM-1x00 headblock assemblies? I've seen prices no lower than $600 for scary condition on up well over $2,000 for something with a head report. And just plain harder to find. Unfortunately I've got a thing for this machine...i believe there to be distinct sonic benefits as well operational joys and other reasons I've mentioned over time, but there are definite compromises and sacrifices. I believe I will never be one that scoffs over somebody getting a "prosumer" machine vs one of these "big-iron" beasts. I think its really easy, when considering all the factors that weigh into a decision to purchase a tape machine, its pretty easy to reach hair-splitting considerations because the vast differences between different eras and formats creates vast differences in pros and cons specific to each machine type.

Anyway, it should be here by Friday and I can start getting it tested out. More details to follow...

 

[briank]

Actually I'd much rather have a 2" block than a space shuttle Hope it works out ok. Due to the crazy premium people can put on an ad for heads with with a report, the best way to buy seems to be to pay bottom dollar on an old worn head that can still be lapped. You spend another few hunny sending to JRF or wherever and can have a good, ready to go stack for waaaay less than 2k.

 

[sweetbeats]

I agree. For the hobbyist like me who is not running the machine daily or even weekly even heads with 25% life will last the rest of my life if they've been setup properly.

Like I said they'll be here later this week and I'll ohm the head cables to make sure there are no open coils, then I'm going to pull the scrape flutter idler and take it to the jeweler for servicing and then off it all goes to JFR for a head report and a setup. Hopefully it all checks out and is at least somewhat close to what it is reported/expected to be.

Some bad pics of it...

 

[lukpac]

Was there an issue with your existing 16-track head block? Or is this just another?

 

[sweetbeats]

Was there an issue with your existing 16-track head block? Or is this just another?

Ahhhhh, yes...and there's the question.

The existing 2" headblock assembly:

Nothing wrong with it that I know of. Again, to recount the story, between two benevolent friends that assembly was a free basket case that needed work but fortunately the heads didn't appear to have been removed from the block since a relap at JFR so hopefully they are still properly set. They have been relapped at least once and have some wear in them, but the wear is wonderfully even both in wrap and zenith, but also appear to have lots of life left and the erase head looks great. There were some broken head wires that needed repair and the flutter idler had been left for dead...actually had some surface rust and was filthy-dirty and sounded like a hamster wheel when spun. Cleaned everything up, did the repairs and cleaned and serviced the flutter idler for a total cost of about $25 includeing the cost to ship stuff to me. I believe it is ready to go and of course the only way I'll know for sure is when I try to align the machine to it. BUT...here's the reason why I went for the assembly that's enroute...obviously there is a different type of head in the block that I have which are made by IEM. Most reports, in fact the overwhelming majority of reports state that the IEM heads are not preferred. Pretty much subjective reasoning, and on the other hand experienced users very much prefer the stock Ampex "black heads". They are harder to come by. An example of this is with the MKM-1200-16 which early on was outfitted with the "black" heads and then later was outfitted with a new generation silver stack. There still seems to be lore and preference for the black heads. So this chance to get the original Ampex heads for my Ampex was hard to pass up. Who knows...I may end up liking the IEM heads better and in that case I can either keep the Ampex headblock for spares or sell it for likely a profit since I'm getting a relatively good price on it and by that time it'll also have a head report and a setup from JFR.

At some point I'll be able to do some objectively subjective comparative testing between the two types.

 

[jpmorris]

That's a good investment. I have a certain mania for stocking spares myself.

 

[sweetbeats]

I don't see it as a spare primarily though, but rather a distinctly different flavor. I'll find out how different, and that will determine whether I have two primary blocks, or a primary and a backup, and in the case of the latter I can't say for sure I'll keep it. If I don't really like how it sounds, why keep it? Especially if the block with the black heads ends up being in as good a shape as I'm hoping it is. I'm right with you on having spares, but this is a little different.

 

[briank]

Ah the age old question: what's better, white heads or black heads? *consults the fine folks at Clearasil*

 

[sweetbeats]

Ah the age old question: what's better, white heads or black heads? *consults the fine folks at Clearasil*

White heads are more fun to pop. Duh.

Sooooo...this has been a real saga the last few days.

I got the headblock late last week and it wasn't what I hoped it would be. The original supposition from the seller was that they were NOS...that's what they were billed as when he bought them but he had never opened them up. He trusted the source. So he opened them up and they didn't look new but looked good to him. We had a long conversation by phone and I asked him a whole bunch of questions to try and get an assessment of their condition as best I could. We decided to move forward with the transaction with an out if they turned out to be not good when they got here. When they got here it was obvious to me right away that they were definitely used, and maybe even WELL used. I wasn't sure if they'd been relapped or not, and it appeared that the record head had an uneven wear pattern due to an improperly set wrap angle.

Here are some pics of it:

Now, before you start lambasting the seller he has been very responsive since they arrived and is ready and willing to reverse the transaction. He just didn't know what to look for, and he is just waiting for my word. I'M having a time trying to make up MY mind. When I first got them out of the package and saw that the guides had been rotated twice (i.e. three wear patterns), and in need of cleaning, and the aforementioned off-center wear pattern on the record head...I was...disappointed...to say the least, but more upset with myself more than anything. I knew I was taking a risk and I am responsible for assuming that risk.

I checked the coils and there were no open coils (good), though I found one broken head connector wire on the erase head (not too surprising...easy to repair).

My original plan had been to send them off to JRF right away and pay for a head report and a setup, but seeing their condition I was, like, "do I really want to spend that money on this assembly?" Like it wouldn't be worth putting any money into the assembly. So I started trying to figure out if there was a way for ME to get some assessment of head life. I consulted a couple scary-knowledeable folks on the matter, read a couple articles linked at the JRF website and now have a much better understanding on head construction and what to look for on these particular types of heads (the black epoxy Ampex heads). At first I was comparing the distance from the face of the cores or the "heads" to the bottom of the relief slots...those slots that are cut between each core and guard band on these heads. Well, the 2" heads pictured above have more relief (i.e. are deeper) than the 1" 440C-8 heads I have setup for Matilda that are at about 90% on the JRF head report...so then I'm thinking "wow...mayyyybe...everything is okay..." Then I'm told "no, relief slot depth is no indicator of head life" because the relief slots varied in depth. That cleared up my understanding of what the relief slots are and that I was looking at the wrong thing. The "tip-depth" is what we're shooting for. See here for the location of the tip (this picture was copied from one the of articles I read linked at the JRF website)




The picture is of a ferrite core head not metal like these Ampex heads but the picture does a good job of showing the gap tip and the tip depth.

Okay. So I read and re-read some stuff and dialoged and came to the understanding that the gap tips are typically visible in the relief slots on these heads, so off I went learning how to see them. I figured if I could do that then I could compare the known heads (the 1" heads that have the head report) and the 2" heads. Well, I got it...I have to say it is really exciting to have this new understanding of head construction and then to be able to see the features on my own heads. I practiced and honed my technique on several heads since I have a total of 7 of these black epoxy metal-core heads...In many cases I had to (carefully) clean the relief slot to see the gap tip, and I had to do that while looking through a 10x magnifier. So you wanna see one?

Here is my setup:

And here is a closeup of the top of the core for track one of the record head on the 1" 440C-8 head...if you follow the gap line up the face of the core and then back along the top of the core there is a dark spot at that back (or bottom) of the relief slot...can you see it?

If you can't quite see what I'm taking about see below...I highlighted the gap in orange and put the dotted white circle around the gap tip:

And it was fun actually seeing the difference in lamination thickness between the "C" type heads and the "B" type heads of the MM-1000...just cool to see the construction of these heads and now I can understand better how critical it is to clean them properly and carefully.

So once I could see the gap tip on the 2" heads and could compare to the 1" heads, I came to the conclusion that the 2" heads had NOT been relapped, but definitely had more wear than the 90% rated 1" heads. The 2" heads appeared to still have a decent amount of "meat" in terms of the tip depth, but I wanted to get SOME sort of loose quantifiable determination. I don't have the same jigs, optics and measuring instruments as John French...nor the experience of course, and I have to say that this experience has given me a tremendous amount of inceased appreciation for what it is that John does and can gaurantee. There is a vast amount of particulars to know about each type and manufacture of head. I've got a rudimentary grip on ONE type and manufacture of head and it took me hours and in the end I only have a guesstimate.

All of this studying also gave me the opportunity to inspect the face of each core on both headstacks and they all look fine, and furthermore the tip depth on the reproduce stack looks essentially the same as the record head.

To correlate and quantify my observation I got out my dial calipers and took some measurements of the head stack assembly so I could draw up a magnified version on paper and compare the wear path width of the 1" heads to the 2" heads and guage the difference in the wear depth. In the end I am reasonably confident that were I to send the assembly to John French it would come back as 50% or better life remaining. Furthermore after all the close inspection of the 2" heads the off-center wrap angle wear is less than the 1" heads in terms of deviation from perpendicular, and my discussion with John French over the 1" heads didn't leave me thinking it was a disaster.

SO...it is a complete assembly, hasn't been lapped, would most likely have 50% remaining after a relap, I believe I could run these heads as-is and I'd be surprised if they didn't cal to spec. There is one wire that needs resoldered and the flutter idler should be serviced which I can do except for the servicing at the jeweler which is $12.50.

My thoughts are, at this point, to clean up the assembly sweetbeats style, service the flutter idler and put them away until such time as the transport is ready for 2" operation.

I'm taking votes...keep 'em, or return 'em? Keep in mind there is still, of course, a chance that there is something wrong with something on them. I ain't no John French.

The assembly was $300 plus S&H.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

I'm taking votes...keep 'em, or return 'em? Keep in mind there is still, of course, a chance that there is something wrong with something on them. I ain't no John French.

The assembly was $300 plus S&H.

Send them back or negotiate a 50% refund in order to keep them.

Cheers!

 

[sweetbeats]

Nice idea, BUT, no negotiating. Our terms were that he'd take them back if there were open coils or less than 50% life remaining according to a head report. In spite of that because they are more worn than I was anticipating he is saying "don't worry about the head report...if you aren't happy I'll take them back.". So he is already making accommodations outside the terms upon which we agreed. Otherwise 50% discount for 50% life would be a good strategy...and no he's not the one that came up with 50%...i suggested that as a threshold for my satisfaction. So it is either keep 'em or send 'em back for a refund.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Well, if the threshold is your happiness, I haven't gotten the impression that you're completely happy with them. Most of your comments have been toward the disappointed side. So...send them back.

Cheers!

 

[lukpac]

I'm taking votes...keep 'em, or return 'em? Keep in mind there is still, of course, a chance that there is something wrong with something on them. I ain't no John French.

How about e-mailing John French with some of your photos and findings to see what he says? Assuming he doesn't raise any red flags, keep 'em and send them off to him for relapping.

 

[sweetbeats]

John won't offer any evaluation via photos and I totally understand why, and the issue is that I can't afford a relap ATM. I don't think they need to be relapped right now anyway. I think they'll cal up fine assuming the head position hasn't been disturbed.

 

[briank]

Aw man, that's a bummer! On the grounds that they weren't what was expected or wanted, I would just send them back while you have the opportunity to do so.

 

[sweetbeats]

Hm...yeah...I'm not at peace with keeping them. Its hard because the chances that I will have an oppoertunity to get a black face set of 2" 16-track MM-1000 heads at any price is slim...they're all pretty well worn by now you know? I think that's what I'm struggling with is the unknown which is an unfortunate fear-based driver in a number of decisions I make. With the suggestions above I thought about it and I HAVE a good 2" headblock assembly...its just that I may like the sound of the Ampex heads better than the IEM heads but I have no idea until I try. Who knows what the future holds and I can't keep trying to future-proof things, making decisions on things about which I can't predict...looking back and thinking "why did I do that?" So I sent off an email to make arrangements for getting a refund and sending them back. At least I got a good education out of it.

 

[cjacek]

Cory, send them back, no question. I usually go with initial instincts and so it seems over-riding them is not such a good idea and neither is too much "future proofing". You also have a good 2" block already (and if I'm not mistaken at least another 1" block?) and, me thinks, any difference [sound wise] between that and other would be hardly noticeable, if any. Many guys over at the pro forums blow things out of proportion and it's easy to get wrapped up in all of it. I feel the electronics, mics, room and tape will make a much bigger impact on the sonics (can't wait for you to try the 206 ). I think it's a better idea to hold on to your $300, which is a lot of money for significantly worn heads with a bunch of unknowns, especially also noting the above. Please don't get offended but I frankly feel the extra headblock, the one currently in question, is a needless distraction.

 

[sweetbeats]

Yeah, Daniel...you're spot-on.

I suppose another part of it is that they are original MM-1000 heads vs. aftermarket IEM and me being sort of a "collector" of sorts I like that, but yes it does seem frivolous doesn't it?

There are a number of down-to-earth folks that operate their MM-1000's on a daily or at least weekly basis that I've talked to about the head comparison and so its not just "web research", these are offline discussions with real people and in all cases except one the preference, and not even by an edge, is the Ampex heads when compared to the IEM heads. The one who prefers the IEM heads is George Schowerer...that puts a little wrinkle in it...But you are right that the best judgement would be my own ears, and yes I'll have a chance to do that since (yes) I have two 1" headblock assemblies, one that has the 440C-8 heads loaded and has been setup by JRF...ready to go, and the other has IEM heads in so-so shape, no flutter idlers and has not been setup. I ALSO have a set of original MM-1000 Ampex 1" heads unmounted. These would be the same as 440B-8 with the thicker laminations. After all my studying and learning I have a new appreciation for those heads which were given to me for the price of shipping and it turns out they are in fantastic shape...they have about the same amount of wear as the 440C-8 heads, like 80%~90% life remaining and the wear is very even. At any rate, I'm totally set for 1" operation and comparison and what I believe I will do is when it comes time to compare I will source a set of flutter idlers for the 1" IEM block and do the best I can to set the wrap, zenith and azimuth along with the flutter idler protrusion...get it set good enough for some comparative testing, and if I like the IEM heads better then I can get that block setup by JRF. If I can't hear the difference or it is insignificant then I've got a great backup 1" headblock assembly. If there is a big difference between the Ampex heads and the IEM heads (and the Ampex heads sound better) then I will load the original MM-1000 Ampex heads and compare to those since the 2" black-face Ampex heads would be akin to the "B" type heads. That would then be the apples-to-apples comparison of the 2" black-face heads and the 2" IEM heads using 1" assemblies since there really isn't such a thing as "C" type 2" black face heads...the 2" heads on the MM-1100 have the same gap length whereas the gaps between the record and reproduce heads are different on the "B" and "C" type heads. If the black-face heads win it hands-down and I find myself wanting to do a lot of work on 2" tape THEN it'll be time to go looking for the right assembly.

Thanks everybody.

BTW the seller has already been back in contact and is in process of putting through the refund.

 

[cjacek]

Cory, I don't doubt that these folks are fine individuals, knowledgeable, experienced etc.. but, as you yourself said (and several of us here echo'ed over time), that many of these people sometimes live in a different stratosphere where, for instance, they squeezed out every bit of performance out of their machine, over many years and now, to them, a different set of heads seems to mark a new level of performance, not necessarily heard to such a degree by anyone else. I'm not trying to put them down (not the intention) but you recall how we defend our "semi-pro" gear vs what some say about it being "shit".... a different stratosphere and context. I do agree tho that if you're searching these out as a collector, to have a more complete machine then by God do it, if it gives you satisfaction but, IMHO, not for the sonics alone which, IMHO can be grossly exaggerated by some. I'm not saying I'm right or have experience or A/B'd stuff for comparison but it's rather a hunch, something perhaps I've picked up over the years. Seems you're well stocked otherwise. I wouldn't be dividing my attention anymore. But yeah, run those tests with which you've already got and hear for yourself. My hunch is that once you get going, start recording, the thoughts that come in/out right now, the temptations as I'd like to call, will fly out the window. You'll be in a completely different mental state once you get things going with the MM-1000. Then, well, you'll decide what then.

 

[Chilljam]

Compared to the price of 2" tape, that 2" head assembly is a bargain. If you can't afford to pay $300 for the heads then you definitely won't be able to afford recording to 2" tape for a while.

I would personally keep it if you think it is still very usable (50% worn), like you said, when are you going to find another set at that price? and you can always sell your IEM heads later as if you prefer the black heads and get more than $300 back.