Studer 928 Story...

[miroslav]

So I was bouncing around the net, and checking out what was going on at Sonic Circus...and I happened to spot this Neve BBC console:

Neve BBC 66 Series Custom Console >> Sonic Circus

What was really funny, and instantly reminded me of the console side discussion in this thread...was how the description said:
"Great small frame Neve BBC console for a high end home studio."

I mean, they are certainly not marketing this console to bigger commercial facilities, because it wouldn't cover the channel needs often seen in commercial facilities...but it's the perfect size for a home/project studio.

So yeah...there's a lot of great analog consoles out there that would be applicable for a home studio setup. Yeah...$28k ain't chump change, but there are regular people out there (not some big names) who have that kind of coin to indulge themselves with. I mean, it's almost obscene, but they have it.

 

[sweetbeats]

Well there ya go lol...compact 6’ wide...hahah...BUT...I do believe a high-end “home” studio is where that will end up. That’s a sweet console.

 

[ecc83]

So I was bouncing around the net, and checking out what was going on at Sonic Circus...and I happened to spot this Neve BBC console:

Neve BBC 66 Series Custom Console >> Sonic Circus

What was really funny, and instantly reminded me of the console side discussion in this thread...was how the description said:
"Great small frame Neve BBC console for a high end home studio."

I mean, they are certainly not marketing this console to bigger commercial facilities, because it wouldn't cover the channel needs often seen in commercial facilities...but it's the perfect size for a home/project studio.

So yeah...there's a lot of great analog consoles out there that would be applicable for a home studio setup. Yeah...$28k ain't chump change, but there are regular people out there (not some big names) who have that kind of coin to indulge themselves with. I mean, it's almost obscene, but they have it.

Super. It is great shame to me that the BBC no longer have their engineering research dept and standards are not what they were say 20yrs ago.
Still better than most other "meeja" people in the world but that does not say much!

Dave.

 

[sweetbeats]

Beware Cyrano with any desk from a "broadcast" source. They are often configured to operate at much lower internal levels than recording desks (which are usually -2dBu) to give greater headroom. Noise for broadcast is not such an issue as it is for recording (even for tape!) but headroom is.

Dave.

FWIW it appears the internal operating level of the 928 is 0dBu.

 

[cyrano]

Yeah, just to summarize, [MENTION=106439]cyrano[/MENTION] it seemed like you were saying new analog consoles (maybe more specifically larger and higher quality consoles) were not around, and all [MENTION=94267]miroslav[/MENTION] was saying was there are a number current options available, but then you qualified your point by including “home studio” in your scenario, which I agree anymore is a pretty dubious term. “Home studio” can mean somebody with a simple budget DAW or analog setup, or somebody like miroslav with a relatively large setup. I mean, the song “Something Familiar” by Hibou linked earlier in this thread was engineered and mixed in a bedroom using the Studer I bought by the engineer/producer that sold it to me. I guess I thought the point you raised was the days of the high quality mixing console of size is long over and miroslav’s counterpoint was that it’s not, at least evidenced by a number of companies with current offerings. Maybe I misunderstood your point?

Even when you include professional studio's, there's not much around that comes close to the Studer's build quality. Not even with bigger consoles like Harrisson. And these aren't exactly for home recording, as they are pretty much built to order.

Anyhow, it was just a reflection, because I was recently confronted with the innards of a nearly 8.000 € console from a very well reputed company. It was nowhere near the Studer, even when the sound was excellent. Ribbon cables worked loose from transport. One VU meter's bulb wasn't working because the solder joint was bad. One of the LED VU meters only worked intermittently. A couple of faders weren't flat, but wavy. Most of these problems were due to a chassis that wasn't really sturdy enough to travel.

And I added "home recording", because I was told this forum was about home recording...

On a related note, I was watching the videos on the Harrison 950MX, and particularly the one detailing construction, the “guts”, and the features they highlight as definitive of the construction being at the pinnacle of analog design are part and parcel to my Studer...the gold plated contacts and connections, through-hole components, even the module connectors are the same type...it’s reassuring to know what Studer did nearly two decades ago is still considered best practice in a current product designed to last “a lifetime”.

The Harrison sure caught my ear. There's one being scrapped in China, atm. I'm thinking of buying a couple of channels, to rack. But the seller's price is rather high. Well, maybe if I win the lottery

On topic, I may have found a contact in Europe that might be able to help me find sections of the manual more specific to my console configuration that aren’t included in the base manual version still available online...at least I’m hoping to get technical documents related to my power supplies. I’ve only been able to find documentation for the later version of the power supplies...also hoping to find a resource for spares. I got the lead from some Harman support agent in Hungary...apparently the lead is a former Studer factory service manager. Fingers crossed!

Nothing on Studer's FTP server? If that's still up...

I've checked my archives, but nothing on the 928, unfortunately.

 

[cyrano]

There's a mirror of the ftp site here:

Index of /studer/Public/Products/Mixing_Analog/928

Index of /studer/Public/Products/Mixing_Analog/928/Technical_Info

Index of /studer/Public/Products/Mixing_Analog/928/Technical_Info/Options

Probably nothing you haven't found already...

 

[ecc83]

FWIW it appears the internal operating level of the 928 is 0dBu.

I am obliged good sir. My comment on internal levels was really aimed at other, unsuspecting potential buyers of mixers. Just because something is labelled "Broadcast" does not automatically mean it will perform optimally in a recording system.

Dave.

 

[sweetbeats]

There's a mirror of the ftp site here:

Index of /studer/Public/Products/Mixing_Analog/928

Index of /studer/Public/Products/Mixing_Analog/928/Technical_Info

Index of /studer/Public/Products/Mixing_Analog/928/Technical_Info/Options

Probably nothing you haven't found already...

Thanks much for that!

I grabbed some other stuff off of that mirror site. Unfortunately nothing additional that was substantial for the 928, although I did find a couple more "Service Notes", so that is a good thing. I appreciate you taking the time to hunt and post.

 

[sweetbeats]

[MENTION=106439]cyrano[/MENTION]

Even when you include professional studio's, there's not much around that comes close to the Studer's build quality. Not even with bigger consoles like Harrisson. And these aren't exactly for home recording, as they are pretty much built to order.

Well I disagree...the Studer is built very well but its at the low end of the high end as far as I'm concerned...there are fancier more robust current offerings. And the Harrison 950MX I wouldn't consider "bigger"...its 12, 16 or 24 channel with two master busses and monitoring faculties...no subgroups...relatively speaking its a small mixer...and though its available in multiple configurations, its not built to order like the 928 was, which even at that was limited to the modules and frame buckets that were available, unlike the large format truly custom recording from back in the day that truly were made to order...very application specific builds.

And I added "home recording", because I was told this forum was about home recording...

But here again what is "home"...if it is simply meaning at a place of residence, well, there are some really nice studios built out of the studio owner's place of residence. I would argue that when this forum started the "home recording" scene wasn't what it is today. The market and market offerings have shifted greatly and continue to do so.

 

[sweetbeats]

They say a picture is worth a 1,000 words...well, I don't know what a video is worth, but I argue it is worth many more words than 1,000.

Here is a 22 minute YouTube video covering many details of the Studer 928 frame, backplane and input modules. Enjoy!

YouTube

 

[cyrano]

But here again what is "home"...if it is simply meaning at a place of residence, well, there are some really nice studios built out of the studio owner's place of residence. I would argue that when this forum started the "home recording" scene wasn't what it is today. The market and market offerings have shifted greatly and continue to do so.

I'm sorry, man. sounds like you'd like to go into politics. When I advised someone to measure his recording room before treatment, as he was on a budget, I was told by some big mouth it wasn't appropriate for this forum, because it's about home recording...

Now you turn it another way.

OK by me. I'll let you guys rest in ignorance. It's not about learning, it's about personal glory.

 

[sweetbeats]

I'm sorry, man. sounds like you'd like to go into politics. When I advised someone to measure his recording room before treatment, as he was on a budget, I was told by some big mouth it wasn't appropriate for this forum, because it's about home recording...

Now you turn it another way.

OK by me. I'll let you guys rest in ignorance. It's not about learning, it's about personal glory.

So you seem chapped about the opinion of a “big mouth”, and now seem chapped because you decided my opinion about how “home recording” has changed over the decades is in conflict the other guy’s opinion.

I don’t even know what to say about that. It’s a public forum, so it will be full of opinions, including your new one you shared about us “guys” being ignorant glory seekers. My opinion is that’s totally weird. And that’s the only opinion I’ll share because I’d rather get back to the fun of info sharing about analog gear, and helping others with their gear when I can, and continuing to learn in the process.

 

[ecc83]

"But here again what is "home"...if it is simply meaning at a place of residence, well, there are some really nice studios built out of the studio owner's place of residence. I would argue that when this forum started the "home recording" scene wasn't what it is today. The market and market offerings have shifted greatly and continue to do so."

Quite so Sweetbeats. Circumstances alter cases. If a noob is posting a question about say a $100 microphone and someone comes back with "you need/will only do any good with a $3000 Neumann, that is not in the spirit of HR IMHO. Advice must be proportional to the noob's situation and expectations*.

However, anyone that strays into YOUR esoteric world has left such considerations behind! You don't go to the vintage Ferrari forum for help with a '97 Proton!

*Of course, those expections are often wildly optimistic. They have a well worn Sony cassette machine and want to emulate Beatle's hits on it!

Dave.

 

[miroslav]

I've always hated when some people would use the term "home studio" or "home recording" as an excuse for NOT needing to do things on a pro level...
...which IMO, only cheapens everyone's home recording efforts. My goal from the first day I started recording was to always try as best as I could with my resources to emulate the pro studios with my home setup. I knew I wouldn't always hit the highest marks, but the point was to think in those terms, and to build and evolve my studio so that it could easily replicate commercial sessions if needed...though I knew that I would not have the massive spaces, but I could certainly try and make up for it with everything else.
I never like that response... "but it's just a home studio, I don't need it to sound pro" ...well, then it won't.

I'm amused that cyrano at first was saying that his console comments were focused on "home" studio use, and not the real studio consoles...yet he complains that some "big mouth" gave him the same kind of attitude in the past.
The remark about how we are resting in ignorance and just doing it for personal glory without learning anything...is priceless.
It sounds so bitter, and at the same time deeply envious.
So according to him...unless we are involved with recording in order to make a buck...then it's just for personal glory.
Well...after putting 30-40 years of serious effort, blood, sweat and some tears, not to mention the expenditure of large resources, to achieve long-term personal goals and ideals....fuck yeah, put me down for some of that glory!
Isn't that what it's about...doing something for yourself without any specific expectations attached to it...but just because you want to.

AFA learning something along the way... ...people like sweetbeats and a few others around here could probably hold classes...and I kinda know some things too...considering that some of us go way back, and we actually had "home" studios before the term ever existed, and we came up the hard way, with lots of hands-on work and learning where there wasn't an internet so you could Google and answer for every little question, and also when recording gear was actually all real *gear* before there were computers or software emulations, and the gear we had was limited, so unless you learned and knew how to get the most out of it...you had nothing.

OK...now let's all go rest in "ignorance"....

 

[sweetbeats]

I’m basically just a dude who likes taking shit apart because I’m interested in how it works...it started with my X-Wing fighter when I was a little kid...I had to know how pressing on R2-D2s head made the wings open...so I figured how to take it apart. And along the way I’ve learned that the pile of otherwise useless information I’ve amassed can sometimes help others. And that’s fun for me...to help others be able to help themselves. And I don’t know why, but I just really love music gear from mics to mixers, kick drums to tape machines. And I love the recording process. I dunno...that’s not glory but it wouldn’t make a difference to me if it was. I think I’m incurable. And I don’t know many people that have the same kind of interests and it means a lot to be able chew on this stuff that’s interesting to me with others. That is the long and the short of it. I can easily see how somebody might think I’m flaunting something posting that video but that’s not going to change me, because that’s simply not the reason. It’s just so fascinating to me on a number of levels and I don’t know how to contain that fascination. That’s why I share these stories.

 

[ecc83]

Just listened to Song for Jimmy Page Mir'. Superb and I do know where you are coming from, everyone should strive for excellence.

In my replies I try to keep a balance between giving useful advice that allows the noob (my natural habitat!) to get the best results for his buck but at the same time pointing out that there is no "free lunch"! "They" see zillions of YT performances and think because it is "common" it is "easy".
For the would be recordist of an electric guitar the bare minimum is an AI* and a pair of headphones and that will set them back $200 at least for anything remotely decent IMO YMMV. If they want to add acoustics, voice, guitar? At least another $100. Yes, you CAN plug a guitar into a laptop but it sounds shit. You CAN get $50 USB mic or a BM-800 but it won't be as good.

My view is to keep to the spirit of "Home Recording" just to say to everyone that comes here, "you can make fairly good recordings for under $100 but another ton makes a huge difference and, if you are really serious you will need mics, room treatment and good monitors and north of $3k. The trick is, to my mind to give them the information about "quality" but not scare them off.

Because I am well deaf past 2kHz you will rarely read me comment on sound quality. I tend to stick to technical matters and to debunking myths as I come across them. A good example I think is sample rates? The not quite noob will read of the "badness" of 44.1kHz and yes, for some very expensive and esoteric kit harkened on $10,000 monitors in a superbly treated room there might be a case for 96kHz but for most here no.

Takes all sorts mate.

*but there are now some very good 24 bit USB mixers that offer a different slant.

Dave.

 

[sweetbeats]

All the switches light...some of them are dark...they are either momentary, or it’s a bank of switches that can only have one function activated at a time, but all of them light up.

 

[RFR]

Good angle on the pics. Thats a serious nice piece of gear.

I know what you mean about the interests. Specifically how few share them. There's no audio gear support group in my city. Lol
So I gotta come here. Certainly can't talk to my spouse about this stuff. It would be like her trying to keep my attention while talking about shoes or some such thing. No interest.
Oddly enough though, I've been blessed with my 8 year old daughter. She knows the basic functions of my console. Hahaha
Anyway, that's a great 'home studio' desk you got.

 

[bachelorb]

Alright SB!!! Nice looking Studer!!! (...of which I know nothing about.....) But..... I'm sure I'll make a little free time and learn all about it

 

[miroslav]

Just listened to Song for Jimmy Page Mir'. Superb and I do know where you are coming from, everyone should strive for excellence.

Oh man...TBH, I tend to forget those couple of video clips are still out there.
I just listened to that same clip again for the first time in a few years...and while I do like what I was trying to do melodically...I can hear some clams and spots where I was tentative and chasing the beat somewhat...but honestly, that's a straight pass from start to finish, and it can be a bit demanding to riff away for 7+ minutes without missing. I probably would be smarter to pick some shorter 3-4 minute tracks.

Anyway...I'm glad you brought it back to my attention, because there's some stylistic moments there that I've kinda "lost" a bit the last few years...and it's something I'm getting back into more now, and hoping to rekindle a certain direction I've had on my mind for years...but life (not making excuses, just facts) always pulls me away and distracts me from it. That stuff that we all got involved in music and recording for in the first place...that raw-ish feeling and tone that you remember from way back, but is so elusive to grab and hold at times.

I think that's why we buy gear or make upgrades or look for new music angles to explore. We're trying to stir up those virgin feelings and tones we remember from way back, that we still hear in our heads. We're looking for new sparks to rekindle those creative fires.