Neumann U87 / U47 copies?

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visionary432

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I love the sound of the U87 and U47, but I just do not have enough money to justify buying one. Are there any companies making good quality copies of these products at a more affordable price? Has anyone here tried them and what do you think? Thanks
 
Per Bob Ohlsson. a world class AE, you can get a similar tone to the U87 out of a Beyer M88 dynamic microphone. IMHO I thought the M88 had a brighter top end, so it would need to be EQ'd somewhat to get it closer.

As far CLOSELY matching a real U47 or U87, buying another manufacturer's attempt at cloning one (even a Telefunken!) will never totally match one.
Also, there are few pristine U47's around anymore BTW.

Supposedly, by judicious EQing/placement, a Shure SM7 will have SOME of the characteristics of a U47.

It doesn't sound like a U47 or U87, but for around $500 in a LDC, I'm a fan of the Studio Projects T3.

Chris
 
Interesting. My experiences with both U87's and M88's have never been at all similar. Same goes for U47's and sm7's.

The geffell UM70 is an excellent U87ish mic that is not horribly expensive.
 
xstatic said:
Interesting. My experiences with both U87's and M88's have never been at all similar. Same goes for U47's and sm7's.

The geffell UM70 is an excellent U87ish mic that is not horribly expensive.
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Do you know of a website that sells UM70's new?
 
visionary432 said:
I love the sound of the U87 and U47, but I just do not have enough money to justify buying one. Are there any companies making good quality copies of these products at a more affordable price? Has anyone here tried them and what do you think? Thanks
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Two of the holy grail mics. It's not surprising that many mic makers have tried to clone these mics, and at a lower price point. There are numerous mics out there that attempt to do so to some extent or another. Most of the claimed U87 clones are inexpensive (well under $500), and it's highly debatable whether any of them get really close. The U47 clones tend to be more expensive ($1,000 to $5,000). These are generally really nice mics in their own right. Again, whether they nail a U47 sound is debatable, but many agree that they get pretty close, and again these mics are all pretty nice. Examples of the U47 clones include:

Microtech Gefell UM75 or UM 92.1s
Korby Covertible with U47 capsule
Blue Bottle with U47 capsule (B?)
Lawson 47
Pelusio 47 (there are two different ones)
Pearlman

I'm not that familiar with the inexpensive U87 clones, but as a previous poster mentioned, Microtech Gefell makes some incredible mics (actually all of their mics are pretty impressive). MG is the original Neumann company and has kept the tradition alive more than Neumann has.
 
visionary432 said:
I love the sound of the U87 and U47, but I just do not have enough money to justify buying one. Are there any companies making good quality copies of these products at a more affordable price? Has anyone here tried them and what do you think? Thanks
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I haven't come across any clones that sound like a U47 or M49/249. The U87s have changed somewhat, so I think there are subtle sonic differences among them. The older mics I've utilized all seemed sensitive to temperature and humidity, resulting in subtle changes and anomolies between them.

I think that many of these mics sound great because of the materials used and aging of the capsule and components. Even the diaphrams will loosen up over time making them respond differently to transients. I also noticed this on the old Neve 8014, 8028s and sidecars, which had not been serviced, the caps and components were often wacked out, but in a good way :)
 
I haven't come across any clones that sound like a U47 or M49/249.
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a bunch of the clones sound better and are more stable with less self noise.
 
recordingpro said:
a bunch of the clones sound better and are more stable with less self noise.
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which clones have you had experience with?
 
recordingpro said:
a bunch of the clones sound better and are more stable with less self noise.
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According to who?

I will say that the higher end U47 types are quieter, but that's to be expected since the components are new and are within spec. As far as the U87 goes, I'm not aware of any companies that are cloning this mic. Care to elaborate?
 
This whole 'cloning' tag is starting to get to me.

The whole purpose of a piece of gear is faithfully replicate the source you're recording....or am I out of my mind and dont realize its all about style rather than substance????

I dont think theres anything wrong with building something thats in the 'family' of a vintage piece due to the circuit design, type of components used.....etc.

Expecting a new piece of gear to sound like that old vintage piece even if its built identically to it is mighty high expectations indeed.

What if? ....Work with me here......What IF the new piece has its own attributes, sounds great , gets the job done, is kind to the wallet and has that shiney new in the box look? Does this make it unworthy simply because it doesnt sound like that 25 year old vintage piece?


Tools are tools. The clever user will find a way to make them perform correctly.
 
all the chinese mics compare themselves to the german mics either directly or indirectly with there "reviews" - SP, the B word, Nady and so forth
 
sound125 said:
According to who?

I will say that the higher end U47 types are quieter, but that's to be expected since the components are new and are within spec. As far as the U87 goes, I'm not aware of any companies that are cloning this mic. Care to elaborate?
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I'm in agreement here. A clone is an exact copy, not one that just looks similar to the original. As far as I know there is no one out there copying the U87 circuit, just the looks. Even then, Neumann has patents on the circuit and grill shape and they guard them furiously.
 
I'm in agreement here. A clone is an exact copy,
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I agree with you there and the only "real" clone for a U47 or c12 is built by wunderaudio and telefunken usa is cloning the ela m 251.

In the context of this conversation I believe people are referring to "sounds like" "looks like" as boutique builders try to replicate the "mojo" :rolleyes:
So one could call them clones

One that copies or closely resembles another, as in appearance or function: “filled with business-school clones in gray and blue suits” (Michael M. Thomas).

To produce a copy of; imitate closely: “The look has been cloned into cliché” (Cathleen McGuigan).
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PhilGood said:
I'm in agreement here. A clone is an exact copy, not one that just looks similar to the original. As far as I know there is no one out there copying the U87 circuit, just the looks. Even then, Neumann has patents on the circuit and grill shape and they guard them furiously.
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No, they don't. The U87 came out in 1967. Design patents expire after 14 years and can't be renewed. Maximum duration on a utility patent (at least in the U.S.) is 20 years from the filing date (or 16 years from issue date for older patents). This means any patents they might have had on the original U87 design expired almost two decades ago.
 
dgatwood said:
No, they don't. The U87 came out in 1967. Design patents expire after 14 years and can't be renewed. Maximum duration on a utility patent (at least in the U.S.) is 20 years from the filing date (or 16 years from issue date for older patents). This means any patents they might have had on the original U87 design expired almost two decades ago.
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That's a good point! Still after looking at the schematics for the U87 and other Neumann mics, and comparing them with alot of copies that I actually have, I have yet to see any copies of the circuit. I have also seen Neumann take legal action against a few companies who tried to do the same grill design. The copies were shut down as a result. The capsules patents have definately run out as the chinese copies are all remakes of the KK67 capsule. What's odd is that Neumann never patented the M7 capsule, yet no one save Geffel, Wagner and a few others make a copies. You would think that China would jump all over that.
 
I just started using a Peluso 22 47 short body that sounds really nice so far. It's supposedly "styled" after the u47 and since I've never used a u47 I can't attest to it sounding similiar - but maybe I can say it does sound nice in it's own right. I think you can get one new for just under 1300.
 
You do know I hope that there are many different variations of both U47's and U67's both tubed and FET. To say that a 4060 sounds "fatter" than a U67 leads me to believe that you do not have much experience with a real U67. At lest not one in good shape. The 4060 is a decent mic in its own right, but lets not get overzealous here.

For recordingpro.... continue to use all the cheap chinese mics. More power to you. For me though, they don't even seem that close. I will take the good stuff anyday over the cheapy crap, even if it means saving up longer....
 
For recordingpro.... continue to use all the cheap chinese mics. More power to you. For me though, they don't even seem that close. I will take the good stuff anyday over the cheapy crap, even if it means saving up longer....
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aaaaaah the voice reason sounds so sweet -
 
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