I bought a crazily cheap 'Neumann' TLM103 and it's really decent!

  • Thread starter Thread starter rob aylestone
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TalismanRich said:
That is true. It's government run "capitalism". When you have 1.4 billion people to feed and keep happy, you subsidize whatever is needed to keep things going.

Our company had a chemical manufacturing plant in China that was built by a another company before we bought that division. They manufactured materials for years. While environmental restrictions were lax early on, thing tightened up years later. While not as strict as most US or EU policies, it was getting there. Certainly it was far above companies in India at the time.

All that went away when the Chinese government decided to convert the entire district to residential, closing numerous factories, including ours. When the planners decide they need something, it's fair game. They are also somewhat sensitive to negative publicity. After a major explosion at a chemical plant over 10 yrs ago, the government cracked down even further. They have had a number of similar events over the years, and it tends to upset the apple cart.
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This is getting off topic but I'm not sure China has interests in keeping it's people happy as much as controlling them. But that's just a guess...
 
GainBrain said:
TLM-103 was released in 1997...which was 28 years ago...so it appears as if it may be past patent law. But seriously, why do you need to make a microphone that looks exactly like a Neumann anyway. Imo...they should expand patent laws to 50 years.

Still seems basically unethical to me.
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Lucky for the Chinese, Neumann and whoever writes copyright law don't have gain on their brain.
 
Serendipity Records said:
Lucky for the Chinese, Neumann and whoever writes copyright law don't have gain on their brain.
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You're sarcasm isn't required when someone is trying to bring things back on topic....but I guess at this point, there really is no topic any longer. No one is hated more than he that speaks the truth. I suggest you try to control yourself more in the future.

My username is because I really like my Allison Research Gain Brain. Not for any other reason.
 
GainBrain said:
You're sarcasm isn't required when someone is trying to bring things back on topic....but I guess at this point, there really is no topic any longer. No one is hated more than he that speaks the truth. I suggest you try to control yourself more in the future.
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For one thing you aren’t ’speaking the truth’ - you speaking your opinion nothing more - the Copywrite has flown on the Neumann TLM 103 - and the Kits is not ripping off Neumann - IOWs I would never mistake one for the other - I also own a Neumann TLM 103 (and a U67, a U47 and 2 x KM84) - I would never mistake Shure, Rode or any other brand for the Neumanns - this is no different - add that if I decided to build my own TLM 103 it wouldn’t affect Neumann in anyway.
 
Papanate said:
For one thing you aren’t ’speaking the truth’ - you speaking your opinion nothing more - the Copywrite has flown on the Neumann TLM 103 - and the Kits is not ripping off Neumann - IOWs I would never mistake one for the other - I also own a Neumann TLM 103 (and a U67, a U47 and 2 x KM84) - I would never mistake Shure, Rode or any other brand for the Neumanns - this is no different - add that if I decided to build my own TLM 103 it wouldn’t affect Neumann in anyway.
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I think it's truthful that people are opportunistic and unethical, but that's just my opinion. I was speaking the truth about patent laws, china paying their workers next to nothing, etc....all along. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. I was also referring to the fact that I was attempting to get this thing back on topic. If only that 'could happen'. I'll remain in my position that some modern business is 'opportunistic and unethical'....and unimaginative while I'm at it.
 
In any case, I'm still anxiously awaiting Papa's comparison. Specifically, I am wondering about things like noise level (the TLM103 is supposed to be quiet).
 
Everybody is entitled to an opinion. If you consider a product does not meet your ethical and moral requirements don’t buy it. You seem statistically to be in the minority here, so let’s set your opinion of what constitutes counterfeit to one side.

I’m waiting for somebody else to try one and report back.
 
rob aylestone said:
Everybody is entitled to an opinion. If you consider a product does not meet your ethical and moral requirements don’t buy it. You seem statistically to be in the minority here, so let’s set your opinion of what constitutes counterfeit to one side.

I’m waiting for somebody else to try one and report back.
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Oh man Rob. Yes my opinion.....and an employee from Neumann. I think when people are wrong they should just admit it....and remove the thread.
 
Ah - I can totally see your viewpoint as a Neumann staffer. I'm sure Gibson think the same about the Chinese counterfeits - but - and I have to restate it because it is important this is NOT a counterfeit. It is different in colour, height, width and depth, the thread at the bottom is a different diameter and thread pitch - nowhere does the word Neumann appear. Construction and internals are different. If you stored your microphones in dense foam in a storage case, or on a shadow board - this mic would not fit. I also tend to think that when people are wrong, they should admit it. However, opinions are always variable.

We do close topics when they break the forum rules - so far, none seem to have been broken. However it is very rare to remove them -because 3 pages of member comments that took time and effort should be saved for posterity.
 
rob aylestone said:
Ah - I can totally see your viewpoint as a Neumann staffer. I'm sure Gibson think the same about the Chinese counterfeits - but - and I have to restate it because it is important this is NOT a counterfeit. It is different in colour, height, width and depth, the thread at the bottom is a different diameter and thread pitch - nowhere does the word Neumann appear. Construction and internals are different. If you stored your microphones in dense foam in a storage case, or on a shadow board - this mic would not fit. I also tend to think that when people are wrong, they should admit it. However, opinions are always variable.

We do close topics when they break the forum rules - so far, none seem to have been broken. However it is very rare to remove them -because 3 pages of member comments that took time and effort should be saved for posterity.
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I'm not the staffer....the man in the video that I posted above, pointing out the counterfeit....is. He specifically calls out aliexpress and the mics on the site. I'm just pointing it out, that I don't think it's appropriate for a mod to be pushing counterfeits. Just seems logical, but whatever....
 
For goodness sake! I have, in my videos, investigated the counterfeits, designed to scam people out of their money. Selling a product that is a counterfeit to people thinking they are buying the real thing is awful, and I have had many comments from people thanking me for showing them how to tell the difference.

It must remain with people, armed with the facts, to make decisions that fit their own ethical or moral values. I see people with Chibson fake guitars, Adidas trainers, Rolex watches and even fake perfumes. At the moment there are lots of cardioid mics described as U87. Anybody with a brain knows they are fake. But - if they were branded as Purple Flower and called U87, in my book they would NOT be counterfeit.

Lastly, I have not pushed counterfeits, and I don't see I have anything to apologise for. Indeed - quite a few members have ordered these to experiment with, simply because they are a mic that costs less than taking my two grandkids to McDonalds.

It is also a crime here in the UK if I posted some of the derogatory comments about the Chinese. In many years of importing Chinese goods, my relationships have all be rather good. My contacts drive nice cars, many electric, live in well decorated western style apartments.

I do NOT need a lecture from a member with 18 days membership on what a mod should do. Bit of a cheek to think that you know how the forum should be run - that is a huge attitude to have. When I join new forums myself, I make sure I get a feel for how the forum works before I steam in.

This forum encourages quite strong viewpoints. Occasionally it goes off the rails and the mods mop up. Some of us can even predict certain responses from certain members. We manage quite well.

I'm sorry that you feel our way is somehow lacking, feel free to stop contributing, but please - it is not going to be removed and we will continue to search out new and good value products.
 
rob aylestone said:
For goodness sake! I have, in my videos, investigated the counterfeits, designed to scam people out of their money. Selling a product that is a counterfeit to people thinking they are buying the real thing is awful, and I have had many comments from people thanking me for showing them how to tell the difference.

It must remain with people, armed with the facts, to make decisions that fit their own ethical or moral values. I see people with Chibson fake guitars, Adidas trainers, Rolex watches and even fake perfumes. At the moment there are lots of cardioid mics described as U87. Anybody with a brain knows they are fake. But - if they were branded as Purple Flower and called U87, in my book they would NOT be counterfeit.

Lastly, I have not pushed counterfeits, and I don't see I have anything to apologise for. Indeed - quite a few members have ordered these to experiment with, simply because they are a mic that costs less than taking my two grandkids to McDonalds.

It is also a crime here in the UK if I posted some of the derogatory comments about the Chinese. In many years of importing Chinese goods, my relationships have all be rather good. My contacts drive nice cars, many electric, live in well decorated western style apartments.

I do NOT need a lecture from a member with 18 days membership on what a mod should do. Bit of a cheek to think that you know how the forum should be run - that is a huge attitude to have. When I join new forums myself, I make sure I get a feel for how the forum works before I steam in.

This forum encourages quite strong viewpoints. Occasionally it goes off the rails and the mods mop up. Some of us can even predict certain responses from certain members. We manage quite well.

I'm sorry that you feel our way is somehow lacking, feel free to stop contributing, but please - it is not going to be removed and we will continue to search out new and good value products.
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I'm not new to forums. I've been on audio forums for 20 years. Neumann themselves are calling it a counterfeit TLM-103 which it is, and they are warning people not to buy them. I wasn't speaking about any of the other mod's or the forum in general...just this single topic. It's very simple...it's not complicated. Cheers.
 
I didn't say you were - I said you were new to this one. Im not certain the one in the video is even the same, considering how these are sourced and sold. I cannot keep repeating this. The majority view is that if Neumann consider ANY microphone similar to their shape, they must be mad. You can buy a Harley Benton guitar labelled a 'Junior' - by your rules, that's a counterfeit? Crazy? I'm now going to walk away and give up trying to convince you.
 
Its almost as if microphones aren't dictated by magic and we've known the principles behind how they work for 100 years
 
If you pay attention to the posted video, the employee is not even talking about a mic similar to the one reviewed. He didn't bother with the KETS mic in the upper corner. His example is a mic that is clearly labeled as Neumann, has the logo, etc. THIS IS THE FAKE TLM103. Notice the logo. It says "Made In Germany". Clearly this is designed to fool an unsuspecting buyer into thinking it is a genuine article.

That is the actual definition of a counterfeit. Per Merriam Webster:
Verb : to imitate or feign especially with intent to deceive
also : to make a fraudulent replica of

Noun : Forgery : something likely to be mistaken for something of higher value

fake 103.webp


Nobody with half a brain would send a mic that is labeled KETS to Neumann for repair, any more than someone would send a guitar labeled Tokai Love Rock to Gibson.
 
TalismanRich said:
If you pay attention to the posted video, the employee is not even talking about a mic similar to the one reviewed. He didn't bother with the KETS mic in the upper corner. His example is a mic that is clearly labeled as Neumann, has the logo, etc. THIS IS THE FAKE TLM103. Notice the logo. It says "Made In Germany". Clearly this is designed to fool an unsuspecting buyer into thinking it is a genuine article.

That is the actual definition of a counterfeit. Per Merriam Webster:
Verb : to imitate or feign especially with intent to deceive
also : to make a fraudulent replica of

Noun : Forgery : something likely to be mistaken for something of higher value

View attachment 149463

Nobody with half a brain would send a mic that is labeled KETS to Neumann for repair, any more than someone would send a guitar labeled Tokai Love Rock to Gibson.
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No...he points out mic's that have the red square, yet missing any Neumann labelling as well....clearly identifies aliexpress as the perpetrator of these fakes, etc. How much more in your face does the truth have to be. You can skirt around it all you want, doesn't bother me one bit. I won't be contributing to aliexpress.
 
The ones with the "red squares" are clearly altered photos. Some have part of the Neumann name blacked out, but not all of it. But by definition, there's a distinct difference between a true counterfeit and a similar look.
But whatever... this horse has been beaten to death.
1743293399590.webp


Don't buy one and move on!
 
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