Judge how bad my intonation is

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RideTheCrash

RideTheCrash

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This has been driving me nuts. I have an old acoustic and it's okay sounding, it gets the job done...I'm not too picky. I'm certain the intonation is out. The strings are relatively new and the nut is a cheap plastic one. I did a quick recording of some chords being strummed and picked. I think the low E is slightly out of tune, but my focus is the open A chord. Open D will sound fine, and then A and E will sound bad. I'm thinking of taking it in to get setup at some point, but I'm trying to get some tunes done before Christmas...

Anyway...
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=5869

I play each chord twice, then pick. D - A - E - G - C.

This is a raw recording done with an ECM8000 pointed straight at the 12th fret a few inches away. It's not an amazing recording or playing, rip only on how funny the tuning sounds. Thanks.
 
how did you tune the guitar? have you tried aptuner? i was pretty surprised after using. it sounds out from the clip but i don't know how accurate your tuner is.
 
I actually just use that Power Tab program and tune off it by ear. I haven't used a normal tuner in a while...I'll go double check on one, but I've tweaked a million times and still haven't gotten it right either way.

Update: Just used a real tuner and the guitar sounds out of tune and worse than it normally does. Go figure.
 
the way you check intonation is by hitting the harmonic on the 12th fret and then fretting the 12th fret and both should be the same note (the note you are tuning to). if they are all out in the same direction you might have a truss rod issue but with most acoustics I'm not sure you can do much else other than switch to a different string guage perhaps.
 
I remember that 12th fret trick now...I'll give it a shot. I called a local shop downtown earlier that repairs guitars and whatever, and they said it'd take a few days next week depending on what the problem was. The lady just said that since the bridge is set, the nut might need to be lowered (filed...?) or it needs to be setup. I think I'll take it in at some point, but not for now.

I'm not sure if it has a compensated saddle...it's just your usual glued-to-the-body saddle as far as I know. Unfortunately the best I can offer you is this teeny tiny picture:

minstrel.jpg
 
The EAR is a strange appendage,organ. Some chords sounded like the top E is out, others sounded like your B string is out. Intonation is actually the exact frequencies of an open string as compared to the 12th fret. Try a strobe, and play it again Sam. :D Just remember ; no two notes can ever be EXactly the same, all we can do is try to get them as close as possible. :o
 
I'll tell you, I've been wanking guitar for 14 years now and I still don't fully trust my ears when it comes to tuning, especially on a guitar that I'm not very familiar with. Having an accurate tuner is great.

RideTheCrash, I can't tell by the photo. If you look at the saddle (the white piece sitting in the bridge), an uncompensated saddle is straight. A compensated saddle has angles where the strings come into contact with it.
 
Well, it's straight cut sort of curved at the top. I'm pretty sure the saddle falls right out if there is no strings on it, if memory serves me right (mind you, it's not really loose or anything, but I can pull it out if I want to). I tried that Aptuner, but couldn't get it to pick up my mic.
 
RideTheCrash said:
Well, it's straight cut sort of curved at the top. I'm pretty sure the saddle falls right out if there is no strings on it, if memory serves me right (mind you, it's not really loose or anything, but I can pull it out if I want to). I tried that Aptuner, but couldn't get it to pick up my mic.
Click to expand...

The looseness you describe sounds normal. If it has multiple cut angles, it's compensated. I won't go into any details of the why's, just google "compensated saddle". You have to setup your soundcard in aptuner like in a recording app. It's pretty simple though. It's a killer tuner. Do setup your soundcard in it. It's definately worth the little effort.
 
I tried setting it up for one of my 1010lt inputs, but it wasn't picking up. I'll probably give it some more effort later.

But yeah, that is one thing that bugs me...sometimes a string will sound out, and on other chords it'll be another string.
 
Unwound, plain steel strings are always a problem with guitars that have large, tall fret wire. You play 'em open, they sound great. You push 'em down, they go out. Especially, if you push hard, in the middle of the fret. The string stretches a bit as it goes over the fret wire. If you tune open, they don't sound right fretted. If you tune 'em fretted, they don't sound right open. The worst is when one of the steel strings is fretted and the other isn't. Drives ya nuts.

You can mitigate this somewhat by fretting as close to the wire as possible. That way the wire doesn't get stretched over the wire. But, it's not always possible, is it? You do the best you can.

I tend to play chords that fret the two steel strings. So, I tend to tune fretted. That way, I feel that I'm in tune more often, than not.
 
Nick98338 said:
Unwound, plain steel strings are always a problem with guitars that have large, tall fret wire. You play 'em open, they sound great. You push 'em down, they go out. Especially, if you push hard, in the middle of the fret. The string stretches a bit as it goes over the fret wire. If you tune open, they don't sound right fretted. If you tune 'em fretted, they don't sound right open. The worst is when one of the steel strings is fretted and the other isn't. Drives ya nuts.

You can mitigate this somewhat by fretting as close to the wire as possible. That way the wire doesn't get stretched over the wire. But, it's not always possible, is it? You do the best you can.
Click to expand...

To the degree that this is caused by increased tension from your finger, you can also compensate for this a lot by using a heavier gauge of string that doesn't bend as much.

That said, the basic physics of a straight nut are such that the fretted pitch even at the first fret will always be slightly off relative to the nut. IIRC, the B string is the worst, followed by G. If you tune the open string, fretted notes will be off a bit, and vice-versa. It's pretty much the nature of the instrument unless you have a stepped (compensated) nut.

Check out http://www.earvana.com/ for info. I put one of their nuts on my electric, and the improvement was so significant that I'm considering replacing the nut and saddle on my acoustic when I get around to it.
 
Getting new nuts and a saddle is on my big list of things to do, but likely never to get around to anytime soon. But yeah, it's always my B and G string which are the worst offenders. The bass strings are fine.
 
Acoustics can be so temperamental. I've tuned for the longest time just by ear. Or if I have it with me, I always tune my low e to the low e on Hey Joe. Which I think is a natural e. Just a habit since I was a kid.

Unfortunate how the weather plays a part too for acoustics...warping the neck and all that is a possibility. And once that happens, there's not much you can do I don't think.
 
Check out http://www.earvana.com/ for info. I put one of their nuts on my electric, and the improvement was so significant that I'm considering replacing the nut and saddle on my acoustic when I get around to it.
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I checked out the video, and that guy has the right idea. Not bad for the price, either. :cool:
 
If you tune a guitar with the 5 and 7th fret harmonics and by fretting unisons you will not end up with a properly "tempered" scale. Check out the american luthiers guild web site on "equal temprament" tuning (did I spell that right?). I tune all my instruments that way, it may help you after your tech sets the guitar up properly.
 
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