2008 Martin D28 - horrible resonances

Monkey Allen

Monkey Allen

Fork and spoon operator
I bought this guitar in 2009 or so. To get right to the point...it's full of ugly overtones regardless of the room I play it in. These ugly overtones manifest most brutally when I'm strumming chords around the first 3 frets. Like I'll play Am to G to C or something and there'll be this horrible 1khz (approx) overtone or sympathetic resonance or whatever you call it just underpinning everything played. If I strum some other chord there'll be ugly resonances at 700hz or 500hz, whatever. At first I thought it was my crap 8x9ft studio space. But anywhere in the house I still get these resonances. Or I thought it was the microphone capturing inaudible room boxiness or standing waves or something weird. But no. These resonances come right from the guitar itself. I can literally hear in an open position strummed Am chord...the E, A and C notes of that chord shape combining together to generate this ugly 1khz overtone. Totally unmusical, just rotten. Even if I pick those 3 notes together in the Am open shape...hello...here's that 1khz or unmusical overtone/ resonance.

It's already a nightmare to record acoustic guitar but with this supposed fantastic Martin D28...these resonances coming right from the soundhole absolutely sabotage any effort.

A lot of the songs I do all came about from simple strummed acoustic guitar. But recording simple strummed acoustic guitar has always sucked mightily. I'm almost 100% certain this is not a room thing or a microphone thing. This is coming right from the guitar itself.

I posted a thread here a while ago asking about simple, good sounding...and more importantly good recording acoustic guitars. So if anyone knows one, let me know. I'm probably going to go to the music shop when I get time and try out some mid sized Yamahas, Epiphones and stuff like that.

What do you reckon? I might add...I'm pretty certain there's no broken bracing or defects at all with the guitar. It's just a giant dreadnought tank probably supposed to have been played on a stage with all manner of trumpet, double bass, fiddles etc. So it was probably meant for bluegrass lines and licks or the kind of precision playing that nullifies resonance and overtone and which is beyond me.

thanks
 
I have several Dreads. A D-41, D-35 and a Breedlove. I do NOT have your issue with either of the Martins and am mystified by your problem. The Breedlove sounds nothing like the Martins and more tubby sound to it. Dreadnaughts are notoriously woofy with a mic near the sound hole but you're saying the guitar just shits harmonics. Hmmmm....
 
In my microphone reviews, every time I played my old cheap acoustic, I got something similar. Some chords just had something similar. I think the sound was coming from the top of the neck.

Can we hear the problem - my one was reduced, but not removed by stuffing some foam under the area where the strings leave the nut? Maybe if we hear the problem we might go .... ah!
 
Thanks everyone. No, not saying it's only bad when recording. I'm saying the resonance/ overtone is clearly coming directly from the guitar. That's how the guitar sounds all the time. Strings are quite new...reasonably new. Not an issue. 12 gauge strings. I say "horrible resonance"...this might conjure in the mind something truly abominable. If I asked my brother to come and listen to me strum, he probably wouldn't hear it. Or it would take him a while to hear it. So it's not this rampaging, thundering, ear splitting resonance. But it is something bad enough that I can hear it clearly and it gets accurately and faithfully recorded. The Am chord resonance is actually around 800hz. I mentioned 1khz earlier. It's more like 800hz or so. But whatever.

I can post clips soon enough.
 
60's guy said:
Take the guitar to a qualified luthier who might possibly sort out the root cause.
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Thanks yeah that'd be a good idea but I haven't gone to luthiers in quite a while on account of them all being deceptive liars and grossly overcharging conmen around here. No offense at all to luthiers in general.
 
I have an ever changing love/hate relationship with my two Takamine and one Epiphone acoustics.
Sometimes they can be my best friend.
I understand the premium DAWs may give you a spectrum analyzer feature.
You may be able to identify the source of your problem with these.
Failing that, either hire or find someone with a professional scientific spectrum analyzer.
One of my Takamines currently buzzes when I strum. It is not the stings fraying, or fret buzz. I suspect a spar inside.
It is the guitar I glued back together after dropping it a few inches, and spliting open the top.
 
I recently had my Gibson serviced and it took more than a bit of research and asking around to find the right shop. I paid $240 to reglue a bridge and flatten the belly along with set up and new strings. Was happy to do so as the work quality and results were excellent. Way cheaper than a new one.

I'll add that Martin of today is not the same as of old. There have been quite a lot of quality issues, the most common, binding. Resonances are tough as it is a box designed to do just that.

Having built quite a few guitars, I am pretty comfortable with working on them, that is electric guitars. Acoustics, you want someone really good. I will say, I've had a number of supposedly great guitars that did not record well. They are like individuals, in that they are not all the same. Have it evaluated by someone that knows guitars.
 
Monkey Allen said:
Thanks yeah that'd be a good idea but I haven't gone to luthiers in quite a while on account of them all being deceptive liars and grossly overcharging conmen around here. No offense at all to luthiers in general.
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Fine. You're not keen on taking it to a luthier. I suggested it because a reputable luthier using a borascope could easily locate an inner crack lying just beneath the surface finish of the guitar. Hope you sort it all out.
 
Yeah it's never, ever been a great guitar, sadly. I agree about the binding issues. This D28 is ok in that regard but I did have a Martin om28 which I've since sold from around 2014/15 - the time period Martin were experimenting with new binding glue...which failed all around the waist on this om28. Tragically comic for such an expensive guitar to come apart at the seams. But that's another story. Glad to have gotten rid of it. And yeah acoustic guitars are supposed to resonate and all that...if it just played the chords cleanly without the additional ugly overtone that'd be great. But it plays the chords AND the overtone. I'll post clips eventually. As far as luthiers...I just ruled a line through them I'm afraid. I haven't come across one who hasn't been a deceitful conman. I know there's good luthiers out there. But I have setup and basic repair skills and tools to do plenty of things. Maybe I'll give it a deep inspection on the work bench and a new nut and new saddle and check the frets etc. Having said that, it plays and feels really nice. It just doesn't sound great. Probably a Martin lemon. Plenty of them around.
 
60's guy said:
Fine. You're not keen on taking it to a luthier. I suggested it because a reputable luthier using a borascope could easily locate an inner crack lying just beneath the surface finish of the guitar. Hope you sort it all out.
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Yeah I know you mean well in suggesting pro help. I'm well aware my decision to kybosh luthiers is stupid. But I own the decision, its my responsibility and all that and I'm 100% good with it.
 
Yep. I'll just go and buy a Yamaha if I can't make it good with a bit of maintenance. Or an Ibanez or an Epiphone or something. I haven't ever really had much luck with acoustic guitars. The om28 was pretty bad and I have a now discontinued Taylor GC5 that's extremely scratchy and touchy in the treble. Mellow! I'd love a mellow acoustic that just records great. Either that or I take up gardening. Which might not be a bad idea.
 
60's guy said:
Humidity.
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Big issue this time of year. I use an Oasis Ukulele humidifier and fill it once a week. It fits flatter in the case. I also leave the guitars in the cases. Cracking is a big issue, especially with better guitars that don't have the life sealed out of them like some modern mass produced guitars.
 
I wouldn't expect 1K to be a typical frequency to hear strongly from the resonance of the box itself.

If you tap around on the top and back, does it ring with a 1k tone? When you record some strums, does it show a peak at 1kHz? 1k is pretty high on the guitar, the high E string's B at fret 6 is 493Hz, so that would close to the second harmonic of either B or C 1st string, or 4th harmonic of the 2nd string B or C. I wouldn't think it would be a body resonance, but more of a ring from either a saddle, nut or fret buzz. I've had the nut buzz when I changed string gauges. It gave a nasty zing on the B string. Changing string gauge one step larger removed it.

Changing gauges might change tension enough somewhere to remove any errant mechanical noise.
 
It has been pretty humid over this summer here in my part of Australia, but I'm in a pretty mild region overall. There's little danger for guitars compared to areas that go from snow to searing heat etc. It never snows here. The temperature and climate are mild. It's hot in summer yeah. But it's not guitar wrecking conditions like you guys might have in areas of America.

Approx 1khz. The Am chord I was mentioning is more like 880hz or so. The fundamental issue may be lower and what I'm hearing is harmonic overtones. The problem is variable depending on the chords being played. I can strum Em all day and I don't hear any problem. I can strum an open G chord and it's good. I can't go thicker than 12 gauge strings. The guitar from what I can tell is pretty tip top. There's no buzzing, no loose saddle, no cracks.

Thanks fellas. It's fine. I'll just look into it.
 
A good, hi-def non-lossy recording might be useful here. Does it do this regardless of where you are? Indoors, outdoors, etc.?
 
Taking a stab in the dark here. But acoustics are really a very unique instrument. I am wondering is your fingering or playing style? I know when I play an Am for example, I stay away from or mute the E and A strings for clarity. I actually mute the 6th string almost always unless it is actually being played or I am hitting it for a reason. I rarely let those two top strings stay open. Too much boom.

You might also check with where your fingers are when making certain chords. I mainly play triads, rarely do a bar chord and if I do, it is for a short burst. If I need a chord in the upper area, I will play the notes I need and mute the other strings.

You might try adjusting your style for that guitar. Each acoustic plays different, that is why we love them, they are individuals.
 
I play acoustic pretty much all the time.
My goto is an Epiphone dreadnaught similar in size to a Martin D28.
And it resonates so I've learned to mute those tones, mostly with my hands . Sometimes I will miss one.
I found that if I strum strings hard, quickly and mute the strings over the hole, I can sill hear tones resonating from the strings beyond the nut to the tuners.
So I stuffed a piece of micro fiber cloth under the strings at the nut. No more res.
Also, as you know, compression can reveal things you wouldn't normally detect.
Good luck MA.

Edit to say I have a problem with a Bb standing wave in my recording space.
 
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