2008 Martin D28 - horrible resonances

  • Thread starter Thread starter Monkey Allen
  • Start date Start date
So go do it then. :oops:


You could find that changing the saddle makes a difference to what you're hearing.
Alternatively you could find that the offensive ringing frequencies you're hearing have a relationship to the resonant frequency of the instrument.

Either way, though, you'd have test these things otherwise we're all just sitting around guessing.
 
Sure. I like to takes a gander at all angles and discuss a range of approaches, theories, speculations first. Including the curious detail regarding my 2 guitars and the guitar in the video all having the same issue.

Got an acoustic laying around? Strum those last 2 strings like I mentioned. Let me know if you get the resonance.
 
I hear harmonics playing some of those chords, sure, but not in a dominant annoying way (no pun intended).

For example, if I pluck simultaneously, thumb and index finger, X-3-X-3-X-X
That's C + Bb, the makings of C7, I'll clearly hear the G that isn't there, with all X strings muted.

Might indicate no relationship to resonant frequency after all, since my instrument 'wants' to ring an F. 🤷‍♂️
 
I'm getting the exact resonance/ issue as at 6:31 in that video when playing the chords the guy is playing. On both guitars. Anyway, thanks. I'll roll up my sleeves when I get some quality time and begin the saddle and nut appraisals. See you around the clubs.
 
Steenamaroo said:
I'd be curious where your guitar naturally resonates and if that relates to the specific frequencies of this issue.
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THAT is a really interesting point. I have an Epiphone AJ 100. While it doesn't exhibit OGs problem, it has a natural resonance ~G
 
So all guitars with a natural resonance of G will maybe ring out and exhibit this outrageous phenomenon. Or all guitars that resonate at G AND with saddle, nut, only saddle, only nut or both or both combined with some other X factor or any one of saddle/ nut and or combined with whatever unknown X factor problem/s will exhibit this phenomenon. What are the odds of both my guitars doing it and this new guitar in the video. If natural resonances of G lead to the issue, guitar manufacturers would never manufacture another guitar that resonates at G every again. This G resonance thing would have been eliminated from guitar making a century ago.

I think I will replace both nut and saddle in both my guitars and redo the setups etc. As for the brand new guitar in the video exhibiting the issue in absolute spades...I dunno. It may well just be that both my guitars are years past the date of their last setup/ nut/ saddle work/ change.....AND the guitar in the video is direct off the rack brand new and has never had a detailed setup. So that's where I think I am at.

I now know the course of action to take. I'd like to thank everyone for their thoughts and wish you all the best. I'll get the work done and report back here at a later date.

Thank you
 
Monkey Allen said:
I dunno. It may well just be that both my guitars are years past the date of their last setup/ nut/ saddle work/ change.....
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That would seem the logical first choice.
Did you have your new guitar set up, or play it out of the box?
It may also be that your ears are too well tuned to pick up these anomalies that most or us don't hear as prominently.
 
Old Music Guy said:
That would seem the logical first choice.
Did you have your new guitar set up, or play it out of the box?
It may also be that your ears are too well tuned to pick up these anomalies that most or us don't hear as prominently.
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Setup, they were both pro setup. Probably long in the tooth now much like myself. So I will renew the setups and all that. I doubt my ears are too well tuned. The video example at 6:31 doesn't take special ears to hear. It's a great example and plain as day. I'll be back....

...whenever I get this done.
 
Monkey Allen said:
So all guitars with a natural resonance of G will maybe ring out and exhibit this outrageous phenomenon.
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I don't know - I'm taking a stab but it doesn't seem unreasonable.
My guitar 'wants' to ring at F, and I hear your G-pitch overtones on my guitar but they sound natural; just part of the sound of the instrument.

If it's easier for your instrument to resonate at certain pitches than mine maybe there's something in that?
Like I say, though...A stab.

We've all had it where the bassist plays some note and the unattended snare drum goes mental.
I recently hung some of my guitars on the wall and I'm very aware of them ringing when I talk or listen to music there.


The reason I keep mentioning the saddle is because they are fussy as hell if not quite right.
They can/do become worn over time, and running a different string gauge from what was on it at setup can make all the difference too.

I'm thinking If I wanted annoying pronounced harmonics I'd impede the movement of the string slightly (pinched harmonic).

Seems to me nut, frets, and saddle impede string movement and the first to go would be the fundamental.
and the range of cases where you observe this rule out, or at least reduce likelihood of, it being caused by nut or individual frets.


Thinking about it, it might be worth just checking out single note sustain, with all other strings muted.
For example, fret 5 on D string (g pitch)...Just give that a pluck and see how it sustains.
Does the fundamental fade out abnormally early, leaving the first harmonic (octave above) behind?
I mean, it should do exactly that but, I guess, the question is how quickly?

I did make a guitar from scratch but I'm no luthier. I'm just throwing out things I think I'd want to try.
If anyone can tell you, or me, better, that's very welcome!
 
Monkey Allen said:
I'm fine with replacing whatever I need to replace. But I'm interested in why both my guitars are doing this (a dread and a concert)...and the guitar in the video.
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That makes me think it's not the guitar somehow.

Are you mostly playing in the same room? What happens if you take them outside?
 
Monkey Allen said:
I play anywhere. Same issue. It's the guitar.
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Rather, it's multiple guitars, all doing the same thing?

That's hardly conclusive, but kind of makes me think it's something outside of the guitars, rather than the guitars themselves. It's odd to have a whole bunch of them all have the same issue, you know?
 
Slightly off topic, but maybe relevant.
If you listen to "An American Tune" by Paul Simon, it is a very sparse arrangement. However, the bass is a major part of the arrangement.
If you listen closely, Bob Cranshaw (I always thought it was Carol Kaye), plays some notes that sound so out of place you would think that it was a clam. How would a producer EVER let that through?
The bass line throughout itself is a master work. But these several notes stick out like a sore thumb.
IS it a combination of several instruments? Is it a function of Cranshaw's bass?
Listen and comment, please. This may work into OGs post
 
DrewPeterson7 said:
Rather, it's multiple guitars, all doing the same thing?

That's hardly conclusive, but kind of makes me think it's something outside of the guitars, rather than the guitars themselves. It's odd to have a whole bunch of them all have the same issue, you know?
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It is on the video I linked too. Listen to the 6:31 minute mark. That's the issue right there. So whatever that is...what's going on and how do you fix it is the question.
 
Monkey Allen said:
It is on the video I linked too. Listen to the 6:31 minute mark. That's the issue right there. So whatever that is...what's going on and how do you fix it is the question.
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In the Video that you posted that isn’t guitar resonance - that is mic resonance and string harmonics - and if you want to cut that out - sweep a parametric cranked up and narrow till you hear it - then you could use a compressor and side chain a EQ that cuts that frequency(s) - I don’t know if this has been asked but do you hear it when the guitar is not mic’d up?
 
There are some good spectrum analyzer apps out there. That would be a great help in isolating the frequency that's bothering you.
 
Old Music Guy said:
There are some good spectrum analyzer apps out there. That would be a great help in isolating the frequency that's bothering you.
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According to post #5 the frequency that is most troubling to the OP is 800hZ.

Monkey Allen said:
I can hear it clearly and it gets accurately and faithfully recorded. The Am chord resonance is actually around 800hz.
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Before I go any further, let's take a look at 6 string guitar frequencies.

1755393444437.webp


When the OP is playing an open Am chord using only strings 4, 3, and 2 the frequencies are 164.8, 220.0, 261.6 respectively.

I'll grant it that the above chart only shows frequencies up to the 12th fret. You have to go much higher up the fretboard to reach 800 hZ and hear those frequencies.

On the other hand, even though the OP is only playing those 3 strings it is possible that he's hearing the sympathetic, harmonic resonance of an awesome D28. That's the beauty of acoustic guitars! Sorry, but I fail to comprehend his continued dissatisfaction with a guitar he has owned for 16 years.

I know for myself that whenever I play an acoustic guitar for the first time, I fret the D and G strings on the 5th fret. I strum all 6 strings. I listened and hope that I do hear sympathetic harmonic resonances. If I hear that, it's a keeper guitar.

Again, that's the beauty of acoustic guitars. Regardless of brand name, they're all different, good or bad.

YMMV
 
Papanate said:
In the Video that you posted that isn’t guitar resonance - that is mic resonance and string harmonics - and if you want to cut that out - sweep a parametric cranked up and narrow till you hear it - then you could use a compressor and side chain a EQ that cuts that frequency(s) - I don’t know if this has been asked but do you hear it when the guitar is not mic’d up?
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I don't think you're correct there. I know it's a long thread with lots of rambling, but I've already mentioned that it is not microphone resonance. String harmonics yeah that's likely depending on how we define terms etc. It's not microphone resonance though, because as I said the issue occurs to the naked ear. No mic involved. I can hear it in person. Your last question there...can it be heard when not mic'd up...yeah I can...I've said that many times. No prob if you didn't see it. Like I said it's a long thread. So it isn't mic resonance. What can be heard in the video is what I hear on my guitars, any room, any strings etc. As far as wanting to cut it out with compressors, eq sweeps etc...well yeah...as a last resort you'd have to do something. But the problem is with the guitar. Bot my acoustics have it, the guitar in the video has it and just the other day I strummed the last two strings of my Fender Tele like this xxxx10. Like a 2 note C. Unplugged, just strumming those 2 strings my Tele has the same issue. Even simply plucking one note...1st fret B string you can hear the issue.
 
Old Music Guy said:
There are some good spectrum analyzer apps out there. That would be a great help in isolating the frequency that's bothering you.
Click to expand...
Well you can hear it in the video. It's rather hard to say exactly what freq it is since other fundamental notes from multiple strings are in the mix at the same time. It appears to be the combination of notes that create the issue...this overtone, harmonic tone, issue, whatever we are calling it.
 
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