Will taking finish off my guitar effect the tone much?

[metalj]

I was actually thinking of just a flat stain of somesort. Something with no flash or gloss to it.

But I was wondering if the wood underneath it will look ok, probably different for every guitar, otherwise why would they put veneer on it if the wood looks nice on its own Right? Just an unknowing thought about it.

 

[Light]

Not True, That maybe the case in the US but not elsewhere.

OK, they have no warranty centers in the US. Believe me, I've tried to become one, and if they would let anyone do the work, they would let us do it.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

I was actually thinking of just a flat stain of somesort. Something with no flash or gloss to it.

It would not provide sufficient protection for the guitar.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

Because then we would have to pay a professional luthier to do it, right?

No, because I don't like the idea of people blowing up.

Massive fireballs have a way of ruining a person's day.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Slowrider]

Strip that MF down to bare wood and finish with some Nitro Laquer from Guitar Re-Ranch. With all due respect to Light, who really cares about the life expectancy of a PRS SE.

http://home.flash.net/~guitars/products.html#aerosols

Yes I agree, seen TOO many great guitar players who stripped and/or refinished their guitars, and they sounded fantastic. I have stripped 2 of my basses and 1 guitar and they sound great. The basses actually sounded better with the bare wood.

What do you think people have been doing for thousands of years to their instruments? I mean Way before there were Professional Luthiers on every street corner? Just strip it and have fun!! Only a fool will blow themselves up; just proves they didn't need a guitar anyway!

 

[travelin travis]

Yes I agree, seen TOO many great guitar players who stripped and/or refinished their guitars, and they sounded fantastic. I have stripped 2 of my basses and 1 guitar and they sound great. The basses actually sounded better with the bare wood.

What do you think people have been doing for thousands of years to their instruments? I mean Way before there were Professional Luthiers on every street corner? Just strip it and have fun!! Only a fool will blow themselves up; just proves they didn't need a guitar anyway!

If he blows up I have dibs on the guitar.

 

[Zaphod B]

No, because I don't like the idea of people blowing up.

Massive fireballs have a way of ruining a person's day.

So, Light, I gather that a few cheap cans of aerosol nitro would make a great poor man's FAE (fuel-air explosive)?

.

 

[Light]

So, Light, I gather that a few cheap cans of aerosol nitro would make a great poor man's FAE (fuel-air explosive)?

.

Yes, quite easily.

To give you an idea of what it takes to do it safely, the lights in my spray booth are completely air tight, including all the junction boxes, so that the lacquer can't be exposed to a spark. For similar reasons, we have an explosion proof exhaust fan, with a bronze or aluminum (I can't remember which) spark proof blade, and with the (sealed) motor completely out of the air path. The walls are covered with grounded aluminum panels. In other words, EVERYTHING is done to make sure that nothing can put out even a minor static spark, because when you are spraying that is all it takes to go BOOM!!!!!!!

As I have said MANY times, spraying nitro is a strictly professional endeavor. If you don't have the safety gear, use a water-borne finish. Hell, PRS doesn't use nitro, and they haven't in at least 20 years, if they ever used it. Why would you feel the need to put a nitro finish on one if they don't even do so. (These days they use a UV cured finish, which is even less of a amateur project, seeing as the cheap light needed to use it is about $5,000 - oh, and if you aren't careful with the light you can give yourself 3rd degree burns in about 10 seconds).


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Zaphod B]

I've seen many of your posts warning about the dangers of spraying nitro. I don't have plans on trying it myself.

There are lots of products available to DIY-ers of all sorts that have the potential to kill you - lots of solvents with high vapor pressure whose gases accumulate near the floor, the kind of thing that you might be using in a garage when, for example, the furnace kicks on and.....BOOM.

Whenever I'm working with any of that kind of stuff I try to make sure I have an abundance of fresh air and circulation.

 

[muttley600]

Ok the truth about nitrocellulose. The main problem with it as contained in a lacquer form is from both the solvent it is carried in and the overspray or dry spray you can get if it isn't applied correctly. Nitrocellulose laquer contains quite a few solids, nitrocellulose being one of them. When it is applied correctly and cured it is safe. the stage between "wet" (in the can) and "cured" (on the instrument and combined with other solids) is the "dry" stage and it can be dry in the air on your hands on your cloths etc. if it collects in any quantity you can have potential issues.

Now nitrocellulose is highly unstable. It dosen't need a flame or spark to ignite it can and does very easily spontaniously combust. It is the very same stuff as is used in nitroglycerin. Thats right the stuff dynamite is made of, only dynamite isn't as good an explosive In the quantities you find in rattle cans this is still a possible problem if the stuff is allowed to dry in the air. You DO NEED PEOPER EXTRACTION plenty of fresh air is still taking a risk. In some situations you can make the situation worse. You need to keep the air moving and shift quite a bit of it. The method you use to shift the air needs to be spark and static free to avoid combusting the nitrocellulose and the solvents it is carried in.The stuff will definitely ignite/explode if exposed to a flame or excess heat. I have a completely static and spark free extraction system and a specially treated floor surface to minimise any potential risk. The overspray is directed out of vents by maintaing positive pressure in the booth and is collected in a water bath to comply with our regs..I have to have the fact that I use it registered with the Fire Brigade and they carry out spot checks to make sure I store and use it correctly. If they take it that seriously so should you.

Other uses include smokeless gunpowder, flash paper, guncotton although these are not common today it is still used as a propellant today in everything from fireworks to the missiles used by our armed forces and by NASA.

Go ahead and use it. If used correctly it is safe. But treat it with the utmost respect if you do. I can't see why anyone would want or need to when for one off finishing projects there are far better and easier to use finishes.

Damn now I've broken my 2007 resolution not to sound off too much...

 

[Light]

You need to keep the air moving and shift quite a bit of it.

To give you an idea of how MUCH air, the temperature in our shop goes down by about 10 degree (Fahrenheit) in about 4 minutes when we switch on the spray booth fan this time of year. What we really need is a heat exchanger for the intake air, but they cost a lot for the amount of spraying we do.

I have to have the fact that I use it registered with the Fire Brigade and they carry out spot checks to make sure I store and use it correctly.

Yup, they come by at least once a year around here. It is kind of reassuring to have the fire station about a block and a half away from us, though.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[muttley600]

To give you an idea of how MUCH air, the temperature in our shop goes down by about 10 degree (Fahrenheit) in about 4 minutes when we switch on the spray booth fan this time of year. What we really need is a heat exchanger for the intake air, but they cost a lot for the amount of spraying we do.

I only have mine running 3 or 4 days a month depending on how long it takes me to build the coats I need. I looked at a heat exchanger because in the winter here it can get very cold. The cost was prohibitive so I use a heating blanket to keep my pots at around room temp when it gets too cold to load up. Its a pain because I can't leave them unatended.

 

[Light]

I only have mine running 3 or 4 days a month depending on how long it takes me to build the coats I need. I looked at a heat exchanger because in the winter here it can get very cold. The cost was prohibitive so I use a heating blanket to keep my pots at around room temp when it gets too cold to load up. Its a pain because I can't leave them unatended.

Tell me about it.

Dad likes to build in batches of about 8-12 guitars, and when he is finishing he will do "sub-batches), so he will run the fan 2-3 days a week himself, plus there is always some other projects in the shop, and I do my guitars (which take a bit less time than dad's, plus I usually do most of my finishing at night when everyone's away), so ours gets run at least a bit almost every day of the year. Fortunately, we have a massively oversized furnace with a even more massively oversized humidifier, so the shops environment comes back pretty quick. Still, a heat exchanger would sure be nice.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Zaphod B]

I feel an experiment coming on.

I need to find someone with a really tall deer stand, out in the country somewhere nice and flat.

A nice, still day with no wind.

Have an accomplice or two empty the contents of a few cans of aerosol nitro into the air, down on the ground. Have accomplices run like hell.

Drop match into nitro cloud from deer stand.

Wake up two counties away.

 

[ggunn]

I feel an experiment coming on.

I need to find someone with a really tall deer stand, out in the country somewhere nice and flat.

A nice, still day with no wind.

Have an accomplice or two empty the contents of a few cans of aerosol nitro into the air, down on the ground. Have accomplices run like hell.

Drop match into nitro cloud from deer stand.

Wake up two counties away.

What is nitro, anyway? Nitromethane (dragster fuel)? Nitrous oxide (wacka-wacka-wacka...)? Nitroglycerine?

 

[Zaphod B]

See Muttley's post above.

 

[notCardio]

Haven't got the patience to read this whole thing but

my favorite guitar and my favorite bass have both had the finish stripped and somebody put a really bad varnish job on both of them. Love 'em.

Don't know what they sounded like before. Don't care.

Carry on.

 

[whjr15]

Why does everyone keep bringing up the fact that its an inexpensive guitar?? Did you not read when he said that he loves it? Shouldn't that be reason enough??

 

[travelin travis]

Why does everyone keep bringing up the fact that its an inexpensive guitar?? Did you not read when he said that he loves it? Shouldn't that be reason enough??

Exactly. It's not that easy finding a guitar you really dig. What if he sends it back to PRS and gets a dud in return? What are the chances of that?

Maybe he should consider a water based finish but the standard response around here to questions of finishes and frets and nuts and etc., etc. always seems to be.........."take it to a guitar tech".......who's gonna charge you out the ass. How did that guitar tech learn what he knows? By taking it to a guitar tech? Do you think he started with a bunch of hyped up tools from Stew Mac? You guitar tech guys make everyone think that they need thousands in equipment to fix and mod guitars. Does Stew Mac make a $100 tool for clipping string ends? I guess I need one of those before I can change my strings...........

Rant over.

Almost.........

For you guys that don't know, there are guitar techs out there that do quality work without the need to shake you down for every damn dime they can get out you. Start asking around. You'll find him (not in a store).

Ok, rant over.

 

[muttley600]

How did that guitar tech learn what he knows? By taking it to a guitar tech? Do you think he started with a bunch of hyped up tools from Stew Mac? You guitar tech guys make everyone think that they need thousands in equipment to fix and mod guitars. Does Stew Mac make a $100 tool for clipping string ends? I guess I need one of those before I can change my strings...........

Rant over.

Almost.........

For you guys that don't know, there are guitar techs out there that do quality work without the need to shake you down for every damn dime they can get out you. Start asking around. You'll find him (not in a store).

Ok, rant over.

I don't know about every guitar tech/luthier, but this one. Did a seven year apprenticeship as a cabinet maker when he left school and then worked for 5 years at Rolls Royce and BA Corperate Jets in their wood shops doing fine veneer and cabinet work.

He then went and did a four year Degree in Musical Instrument Technology and Acoustics. Worked for 2 Years part time as a builder repairer (in a store) while doing his Masters before spending the last 10 -15 years full time building a reputation and order book that just about allows his kids to have the same things as the other kids in the street and his wife to only have to work 4 days a week. I suppose I could work for less so you guys can have a cheaper fix for your axe.

As to tools my shop tools are insured for £35000 and have taken a lot of time and money to aquire over the last 30 years and are priceless at least to me!!

I have always said you can do it yourself and have given detailed descriptions on how to do certain jobs on occasion. I'm all for people having a go and learning . To suggest that we guitar techs/luthiers are out to squeeze every last penny out of the paying customer is bordering on offensive. Try getting your teeth pulled for less or your car serviced for minimum wage and see how far you get..

I know there are cowboy guitar tech guys out there. There are cowboys in every trade. As for the genuine guitar techs and luthiers that hang out here they all give free qualified advice that costs nothing and in my little expereience in the trade is usually correct, considered and right on the money.

Rant over