Why am I not wild about Mesa-Boogie?

Light

Light

New member
Just one of the reasons I'm not wild about Mesa's. Here is a (copy and pasted) quote from one of their owner's manuals:

...CAUTION When turning up the Master and/or Lead Master and playing quite loudly, you should expect to reduce the Volume and possibly the Treble and/or Presence. Otherwise, you may push the 12AX7 preamp tubes beyond
their reasonable range, and noise, feedback or ringing may occur. This is normal, however; it does not indicate a malfunction in the amplifier. ...(hyperbole snip)... But you cannot run both the Volume and the Masters wide open at the same time without encountering feedback...
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This entire paragraph is complete and utter bullshit. The problems are real, but they are decidedly NOT "normal." They are a result of bad design practice and money saving steps in the manufacturing process. Some of these issues could be easily solved by simply using shielded cable inside the amp. Others could be solved by using a larger chassis and cabinet. The rest are issues of poor layout. Why would you want to pay that much money for an amp that doesn't work? And worse, an amp which is DESIGNED not to work!



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Most Boogies are meant for heavier stuff, where power tube sag isn't wanted...Therefore, it's not really a problem to most Boogie customers.
 
Guitarer said:
Most Boogies are meant for heavier stuff, where power tube sag isn't wanted...Therefore, it's not really a problem to most Boogie customers.
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You mean higher gain/high volume stuff? That is EXACTLY where these things are the biggest problem. In any event, it's still an amp that doesn't work right.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
I've never had a boogie turned up that loud. There is no need, it isn't a Priceton.

The designed sweet spot is somewhere in the middle, not with the amp decked. The amp is capable of more gain that is practical to use.

Depending on the model, you can set the gain structure up a number of different ways, certain combinations just end up being useless.

The dual and triple recs are very versatile, you can get a ton of different sounds out of them (even if it seems everyone is going for the same one)


To illustrate my point, all of these songs were recorded with the same triple rectifier, same cabinet, same mics, same preamp, etc... (including the clean)




 
Farview said:
I've never had a boogie turned up that loud. There is no need, it isn't a Priceton.

The designed sweet spot is somewhere in the middle, not with the amp decked. The amp is capable of more gain that is practical to use.

Depending on the model, you can set the gain structure up a number of different ways, certain combinations just end up being useless.

The dual and triple recs are very versatile, you can get a ton of different sounds out of them (even if it seems everyone is going for the same one)


To illustrate my point, all of these songs were recorded with the same triple rectifier, same cabinet, same mics, same preamp, etc... (including the clean)




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Pretty sweet stuff, Farview. The guitar tones in the very first link are the stuff of my fantasies...must start saving...
 
WhiteStrat said:
Pretty sweet stuff, Farview. The guitar tones in the very first link are the stuff of my fantasies...must start saving...
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That was a PRS with stock pickups plugged straight into a triple rec into a Laney cabinet with celestion 75 watt speakers mic'd with a 57 and a 421.

The big thing about the boogie's is the tone controls. Changing the tone settings completely changes the type and feel of the distortion. The tone controls seem to be before the distortion in the signal chain, so the amount of compression and distortion will be very effected by these settings. i.e. the more midrange you pump, the less gain you need...
 
Farview said:
That was a PRS with stock pickups plugged straight into a triple rec into a Laney cabinet with celestion 75 watt speakers mic'd with a 57 and a 421.

The big thing about the boogie's is the tone controls. Changing the tone settings completely changes the type and feel of the distortion. The tone controls seem to be before the distortion in the signal chain, so the amount of compression and distortion will be very effected by these settings. i.e. the more midrange you pump, the less gain you need...
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Is the Laney cab a preference of yours, or is just what you had on hand?
 
WhiteStrat said:
Is the Laney cab a preference of yours, or is just what you had on hand?
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I used to be endorsed by Laney (Late 80's, early 90's) All I have left is the one cabinet and my anniversary head. The cabinet stays in the iso room miced up. People just use it instead of dragging their own 4x12 into the studio. It's just a convenience thing. I would probably get better (well, different in a good way) results with a cabinet with Vintage 30's in it. But this Laney has a really tight and strong low end that I like.
 
Yeah this argument is just as pointless as the analog vs. digital one.

Light doesn't like Boogies. He likes amps with simple circuitry for their "purer" tone. I happen to agree with him on that preference.

But the argument that Boogies are a poor design doesn't hold water. If they produce the sounds that people want (and obviously a lot of people want them, though I'm not one of them), then how can you say they're not doing their job and are of poor design?

If you turn up an old Fender amp, it distorts. It's not supposed to do that and wasn't designed with that in mind. Early Fender amps (and even Marshalls!) were designed and even marketed in the beginning for clean tones with high headroom. They certainly don't do that (not by today's standards), but many people love what they do instead. Are they flawed in design because of this? Of course not.

All you really need to say Light is that you don't like Boogies period, because that's all it really comes down to.

I mean, if we had to list all the pieces of commonly used (even legendary) gear that have some kind of "design flaw," we'd be here all day.

What about a Les Paul? You can't even reach the higher frets without bringing your thumb underneath the fretboard! Talk about a "design flaw!" I couldn't believe that the first time I played a Les Paul!
 
Light said:
Just one of the reasons I'm not wild about Mesa's. Here is a (copy and pasted) quote from one of their owner's manuals:






This entire paragraph is complete and utter bullshit. The problems are real, but they are decidedly NOT "normal." They are a result of bad design practice and money saving steps in the manufacturing process. Some of these issues could be easily solved by simply using shielded cable inside the amp. Others could be solved by using a larger chassis and cabinet. The rest are issues of poor layout. Why would you want to pay that much money for an amp that doesn't work? And worse, an amp which is DESIGNED not to work!



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
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I own a roadking and it says the same thing in my manual.

It is also the best sounding amp I have ever heard and it kills every Marshall I have ever heard! Not just beats, destroys!
 
And for the record, Boogie is just pointing out something that is essentially a problem on most amps, especially Marshalls, the ones that actually have gain that is.

My amp is quiet even with the treble and gain cranked, or atleast as high as I would ever put them. Only time it feeds back is when I let the strings go.

I tried out a DSL a few weeks ago and that was a feedback monster!

Essentially Mesa is just being honest!

Unless of course Mesa is the only amplifier that has feedback at high volumes with the treble and Presence pegged.

Feedback which I have not heard as of yet.
 
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hell yea, les pauls suck. Get an SG! Who the hell would wanna play a les paul? Everyone. Why?!?!?!? Seriously, WHY?!?! They're ugly, weird to play, the neck is too wide. did I mention it's ugly as hell? Why don't people save up and buy a rickenbacker or something. Instead of talking crap about the ric cause they can't afford it, lol. this is off subject. I just gotta take every op I can to bash the les paul.

To top it off you gotta buy special long shaft pots if you wanna replace 'em! And the neck is friggin like a foot wide! What a dumb guitar! This would be all right, if it at least looked cool. SGs are gorgous! Hell any guitar is, except les pauls, bleh.
 
My friend has an F50 Mesa 1X12 which is incredibly loud. I don't care for the tone compared to my Marshall but my Marshall is 4X12 and double the watts.
It is what I call flat.... The OD sound is not to my taste either. Years ago I played in a band with one of the original boogies and I found it too was loud without much tone...(with Les Paul).... The record out the back is superior in tone to the Marshall though...
 
I can blame a Mesa Boogie for some ear damage about 20 years ago when I was playing next to one at a jam session. I'm pretty sure it had a JBL and he'd had it modded as well-I had an Ampeg 100 watt with 2 12's and I could not hear myself!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad: I promptly packed up and got the Hell out before I went totally deaf.................:eek:
 
nopainkiller said:
hell yea, les pauls suck. Get an SG! Who the hell would wanna play a les paul? Everyone. Why?!?!?!? Seriously, WHY?!?! They're ugly, weird to play, the neck is too wide. did I mention it's ugly as hell? Why don't people save up and buy a rickenbacker or something. Instead of talking crap about the ric cause they can't afford it, lol. this is off subject. I just gotta take every op I can to bash the les paul.

To top it off you gotta buy special long shaft pots if you wanna replace 'em! And the neck is friggin like a foot wide! What a dumb guitar! This would be all right, if it at least looked cool. SGs are gorgous! Hell any guitar is, except les pauls, bleh.
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A Boogie and a Ric...there's a combination made in Hades.
 
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