Under The Hood - Inside the Marshall V67G and the Studio Projects C1

[sjoko2]

hehe I was wondering because I think its by far the worse sounding mic in the higher price bracket I've ever heard.
I had heard a lot of good things about it, so when I 'met' one the first time, I was happy to try it, and thought it was broken. Then I met another one on the east coast - sounded the same. Lack of low end and a weird sound in the mids, almost distorted.
Then late last year we blind tested a bunch of different diaphrams, including the Josephson used in the Manley, on a very high quality mic circuit. Immediately recognized that one! The funny thing was, everyone there described it like that - no low end and weird mids - including some committed MG users!

(Ever since then I wondered if I was mad or if some of my collegues are deaf)

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Some mics have a definite character to them - the Manley Gold is one of them. It also depends on the load it's looking into and the type of material being recorded.

When I did the San Francisco AES show for Brauner and Soundfield booth, I had the top of the line Brauner and the Soundfield mics going at the same time. Those two mics cost more than my entire collection of mics and probably yours as well.

Dirk Brauner was very picky about the exact positioning of his mic and after we set things up, I hit record, and we recorded everything direct to CD, with Rick Ruskin playing guitar live, first on the Brauner, then on the Soundfield.

They were both good mics, but the Soundfield sounded way better to my ear. The Brauner was too bright, not enough low end, and a little wonky in the middle. Sound familiar?

I'm not saying the Brauner sucked by any means, it was not a big thing, but that's the feeling I got listening to the two mics. At it's worst, the Brauner would probably easily beat anything I currently own, but since I'll never own one I can't say for sure.

Give me a day or two to play with a Manley Gold, and I'd probably come up with a dozen uses for it.

 

[sjoko2]

I gave the manley a fair shot, tried it on vocals, as an ambiance mic on percussion, and for an acoustic guitar. Even tried a stereo one as a room mike on drums, never used any of the tracks. (had other mics running at the same time, apart from the vocals - did one take, then replaced it with a U47)
I do use a VM1 quite a lot, IMHO a different league from the manley altogether, a very versatile and good sounding mic.
And.. I do have a pretty decent mic collection

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Yup, I think your mic locker can beat my mic locker - and your clients are prettier too!!

 

[Fishkid]

Alan,

I just received my pair of C1's today I orderd on Tuesday from East Coast Music, fast service. Haven't even had a chance to plug them in yet. Man, I was surprised to see how big these babies are! Very substantial. Can't wait to hear how they sound.

The case and the accessories, wind screen, shock mount (which is identical to my Rodes shockmounts) are a great value added feature, I really like the addition of the form fitting injection-like foam and the lock and key is nice too. The carrying handle on the case proudly displays in script "Made In China".
While not real flight case level stuff they are very functional and definitley provide way better protection and isolation than a naugahyde pouch and mic clip.

My only complaint (very minor) is that the shockmount comes with a small thread connector for the mic stand and doesn't work on my standard mic stand threads, it would have been sweet if mic stand adapters or a standard size connector had been included. Like I said, a minor complaint.

Anyway I'm very excited to try these out and if the sonic qualities of the mics are anywhere near the build quality of the mic itself I'm going to be one happy camper. I'll let you know how they sound to my ears. All in all a very, very nice package for the price. Are you really making a profit off these, you capitalist pig dog?

---------------
Scott Shane

 

[sjoko2]

well - at least one of them is Most of the others belong into the usual drunken, drugged, or on withdrawl, long-haired, tatoo'd, I wannabestoned catagory

 

[Headcheese]

Well, I read this entire thread. This is my first time on this BBS and I must say I will be back. Great stuff!

However, I really think you all ought to just Ignore the clowns who feel the need to restate the same opinions 200 times... In the meantime, try not to chase off these guys who jump in to defend their products. I have gotten more out of BBSs where these guys hang than any other. When a guy like Mr Gerst(sp?) writes a a good critique, and you have the opportunity to hear the designer's reply, thats awesome. Its up to you to take the reply with a grain of salt - and understand that there is a bias.

 

[JPS]

Fishkid, I have a C1 and it does work on the regular mic stand!! If you look real close, you will see that there is a brass insert screwed into the opening that reduces the size of the thread. Just remove this insert and you have the regular size opening that will fit on your mic stand.

 

[getuhgrip]

Please...excuse my ignorance

In the first thread of this post, Harvey makes reference to "sputtering" in relation to the diaphram. What exactly is being detailed here, and what is its significance?

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Re: Please...excuse my ignorance

In the first thread of this post, Harvey makes reference to "sputtering" in relation to the diaphram. What exactly is being detailed here, and what is its significance?

It's a technique for applying a very even layer of gold onto the mylar diaphragm. Almost like spray painting.

 

[Fishkid]

JPS,

You, sir, are absolutely correct, Thanks for the info!
Now I just have to find that button to turn off idiot mode.

Alan,
in his best Gilda Radner voice: "Nevermind."


-----------
Fishkid

 

[Recording Engineer]

For Anyone Who Cares. If Not, Oh Well.

Where I got my 797 Audio CR998s? Well back in early 2000, while all the "havoc" with 797 Audio www.797audio.com was happening on rec.audio.pro, for awhile, if you contacted Ma Jiulong of 797 Audio to find out how you could get a hold of 797 Audio microphones in the US, you were pointed to a man named Lee Zimmerman here in the US. Ma Jiulong called him a Representative of 797 Audio at the time and may still be associated with 797 Audio in some way, but what I understood from Lee was that he was not associated with 797 Audio in that way at the time; and if he was, then it was most likely "unofficial". I suppose it depends on how it is looked at and who was looking at it. I'm not sure how Lee viewed it then or views it today.

Anyhow, needless to say, I thought the CR998 was a great base for a mod. So, I contacted Stephen Paul of Stephen Paul Audio www.spaudio.com about this for one mic. He was a bit skeptical at first, but nevertheless, he recommended I at least send it for full testing and evaluation. He and Tony Merrill called to give me the results and the "go".

They've had the mic almost a year now (no complaints, I'm a VERY patient man) and I'm sure it'll be quite the "Daddy of "Green Monsters"" ("Green Monster" dubbed by Lee Zimmerman)!!!

Now I already had speculation (which was confirmed by Alan Hyatt of PMI Audio www.pmiaudio.com when I went down to PMI Audio back in January AND now here on this site) that the Studio Projects T3 is a modded CR998. This is GREAT news to me! However, I must say that even though it's modded, it will NOT sound like a Stephen Paul Audio Mod! Simply different!

I'm not sure what I'll do now with my other CR998. Stephen Paul offered to do-up the other for a stereo-pair if I like down road. I've contemplated leaving it stock. Also, I've wonder what Klaus Heyne www.germanmasterworks.com would to it. Heck, then if I bought a T3, then I'd have collection of modded CR998s and right here I could have a nice demonstration of the different views for mods!

I don't know the actual stance now days, but I know awhile back, I was told by the next best to the horses' mouth to me at the time, who's name I will leave blank as I'm not sure they want to be known, that 797 Audio was probably going to stop production on their branded microphones and focus more on OEMs as the demand is there right now and may introduce their own brand again in a few years. Of course, their marketing tactics will probably need to be redrawn to prevent what happened the first time from happening around all-over again. Now what has actually happened or NOT happened and what actually has and has NOT been decided, I haven't a clue.

But there is yet another option, I speculate that the Audio DeutchKraft, Inc. Area 51TT www.adk.cc is EXACTLY the same or has only a few differences from the CR998. I at least know Ma Jiulong has confirmed that it is a 797 Audio OEM.

So, I'd imagine that'd make a nice base for a mod as well! In comparison to how much it'd cost total for an Area 51TT and a mod to a T3, I'd imagine it'd be quite significant! But for ME, it's worth it! I like the idea of using "not so popular" or "not so well-known" or simply "different" gear! My SPA moded CR998 will go in GREAT with my pair of DaviSound DS-1950s www.davisound.com (which are on order), DaviSound TB-1, TB-3, and TB-8, and DaviSound Custom SuperSystem Console (which is on order). How's about THAT for a "plug"?

Point being, if I find good products, THAT is good! If I find products that are good and different, but a little too pricy, THAT is STILL good. If I find products that are reasonably or cheaply priced, THAT is even better! And if I find products that are reasonably or cheaply priced AND good customer service AND good warranties, AND people who I’d want as my personal friend, THAT is GREAT!!! And once again, I DO NOT work for or benefit in ANY way from mentioning ANY of these companies!

Recording Engineer (RE)
Weston Ray

 

[JerryD]

C7sux,

Shouldn't you be chaining yourself to a tree or something?

BTW, there's a globalization movement going on in the rack
forum. You better go check it out.

 

[Fishkid]

Csus7,

What does newbie have to do with anything? It only means they haven't posted much here at Homerec. Hell, George Martin would be a newbie if he just registered for the first time.

So what's your point?

 

[JPS]

C7sus

Five Newbies looking at and buying mics, now that is incriminating!! I hope that doesn't make you feel like you have failed. You have actually been quite successful at making everybody miserable on this thread!!

 

[tubedude]

Hey RE:

Before the mods and reowrks etc etc, how does the Cr998 sound, stock out of the box? Does it suck so bad that you HAVE to modify it, or is it really a good mic? How does it compare to average 200-$300 condensors?
Did the 2 you got sound the same? (quality control, that is... )

 

[JerryD]

V67G and C1 on female vocals

Harvey,

Sometimes I write songs that are song by a female artist I know.
She creates demos for me. She has a range from mid to high.

How does the V67G and C1 do on female vocals?

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Re: V67G and C1 on female vocals

Harvey,

Sometimes I write songs that are song by a female artist I know.
She creates demos for me. She has a range from mid to high.

How does the V67G and C1 do on female vocals?

I don't know yet - I haven't had any girl singers in to try either mic on.

 

[blinddogblues]

C7sus.....I bought mine just to piss you off......

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Are you close enough to Tifton GA to let Jerry D try it when it comes in?