Track Rat
Just Your Average Sized Member
I was looking at one at a local store. $2300. I thought about it but........
CoolCat
Well-known member
that P420 ....no matter what, its just a very very well done mic.
anyone whose had a bunch of mics would notice the build quality is really top class. Visually it impressed me. The engraved emblem to the large internal transformer, the heavy weight, so solid...heavy mesh screen like Shure built, tough...etc.
Is it really well done?
I think its a very worthy mic visually and in build quality. ...excluding price, and sound, its pretty top quality design and quality.
The fact its a copy circuit of the 87AI...is interesting too. I would guess many who think its too shrill, wouldn't like the 87AI either, imo.
Have you taken it apart yet? or too busy recording with it on sources?
anyone whose had a bunch of mics would notice the build quality is really top class. Visually it impressed me. The engraved emblem to the large internal transformer, the heavy weight, so solid...heavy mesh screen like Shure built, tough...etc.
Is it really well done?
I think its a very worthy mic visually and in build quality. ...excluding price, and sound, its pretty top quality design and quality.
The fact its a copy circuit of the 87AI...is interesting too. I would guess many who think its too shrill, wouldn't like the 87AI either, imo.
Have you taken it apart yet? or too busy recording with it on sources?
CoolCat
Well-known member
For me, never using a U87, never hearing one for real in my room ....I highly suggest swinging it and getting a used one to try ...and return if its not the deal for you.
I was told, if you buy a USED mic and return it, its not a big deal....its the brand new stuff returned that causes a negative deal for a store, forced to sell it as Bstock or Open Box.
I don't regret trying the U87 at all. I did the same thing with PreAmps few years back, and trying the U87AI was pretty interesting too, the P420 was mentioned so I tried that after reading about it. Id had the NT2, and the UTTwin87, and others but never with a U87ai to compare to.
All the Shure KSM 27,32,44 were often compared to U87 ....I wish Id tried the U87 earlier.
I did the same with Stratocasters, started cheap to real to mim, to us, to various US, to MIM, to Japan, and Squiers....and then it gets weird like which one "feels" better and sounds better...
GC in US has 45 day return policy...no charges except maybe Shipping.
My biggest issue was myself getting swamped and burnt out at work, in 45 days I didn't log much time.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
I don't have an 87 for any kind of comparison, and it's unlikely I would pony up that much for a mic. I can buy a decent guitar for that much, and it would get a lot more use. I would be better off spending $3k on new carpet for the house!
I haven't taken it apart. Any modding would be a while down the road.
I did a quick run with it upstairs with the AW16G. I only had my Miktek 300 for comparison. I think the low mids were fuller on the Miktek on the bit of guitar I recorded. Unfortunately my voice was off today... I just wasn't feeling it. Sensitivity is a little different. I think the AKG seemed a touch stronger. Both are pretty beefy builds. I really couldn't make a good judgement of the noise level, but they seemed similar on the couple of quiet sections I listened to.
I didn't hear anything that would turn me off. Clarity seemed pretty good. I need to listen in the other patterns.
Next step will be to take it downstairs into the Tascam vs the NT1, WA47Jr and MK300 in a better controlled setting. Lately my 1st choice has been NT1, then MK300, then a tossup between the SP-B3 and 47jr. I've got an old MXL 992s that I got free when I bought my AW1600 and the V67G, which I still think kicks way above it's budget price.
For $140, I think it's definitely a keeper.
I haven't taken it apart. Any modding would be a while down the road.
I did a quick run with it upstairs with the AW16G. I only had my Miktek 300 for comparison. I think the low mids were fuller on the Miktek on the bit of guitar I recorded. Unfortunately my voice was off today... I just wasn't feeling it. Sensitivity is a little different. I think the AKG seemed a touch stronger. Both are pretty beefy builds. I really couldn't make a good judgement of the noise level, but they seemed similar on the couple of quiet sections I listened to.
I didn't hear anything that would turn me off. Clarity seemed pretty good. I need to listen in the other patterns.
Next step will be to take it downstairs into the Tascam vs the NT1, WA47Jr and MK300 in a better controlled setting. Lately my 1st choice has been NT1, then MK300, then a tossup between the SP-B3 and 47jr. I've got an old MXL 992s that I got free when I bought my AW1600 and the V67G, which I still think kicks way above it's budget price.
For $140, I think it's definitely a keeper.
CoolCat
Well-known member
as I said I paid $229 and not complaining. to take it apart requires the same approach as the Shure KSM series, which is identical to the Shures actually.
I agree the V67G has the smoother toned down something, but its not going to ruin any recordings.
One thing of cheaper stuff the QC might be more random, but these days automation, its probably pretty good yield and less scraps.
thanks for mentioning that P420, it was what I needed for some "87" copy and Ill post a couple home-grown clips to share. Its really really close imo, curious what others might think... Takstar capsule surprised me too. Id bought some Takstar Open Back headphones recommended here and was blown away how good and huge they sounded. The plastic was cheap feeling etc...but I handle with care and the sound is so good. Takstar? I don't know much about them. P420 capsule seems pretty nice imo.
I actually like the U87ai and the P420 sound, works for me....haven't done much with them though.
I agree the V67G has the smoother toned down something, but its not going to ruin any recordings.
One thing of cheaper stuff the QC might be more random, but these days automation, its probably pretty good yield and less scraps.
thanks for mentioning that P420, it was what I needed for some "87" copy and Ill post a couple home-grown clips to share. Its really really close imo, curious what others might think... Takstar capsule surprised me too. Id bought some Takstar Open Back headphones recommended here and was blown away how good and huge they sounded. The plastic was cheap feeling etc...but I handle with care and the sound is so good. Takstar? I don't know much about them. P420 capsule seems pretty nice imo.
I actually like the U87ai and the P420 sound, works for me....haven't done much with them though.
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Papanate
Well-known member
Which model? HF 580?
R
R D Smith
It's as good as it is, for as long as it lasts.
They sound very close. I could only tell a small difference at the end on the long count. I couldn't tell if it was your voice changing slightly, or the mic.
R
R D Smith
It's as good as it is, for as long as it lasts.
My P420 showed up today, much to my surprise, the postman dropped it off. I got a notice from Amazon yesterday that it had been transferred to another shipper and the delivery may be delayed a week and if it didn't make it by "X", I could get a full refund. I figured that meant it was lost. Anyway, I pulled it out of the box but it is still in the case in the plastic. I'll have a look and a test run tomorrow or the next day. I'm looking forward to trying it out.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
I thought they sounded remarkably similar. I tried to load them to compare via null, and they are obviously different takes which makes such subtle differences hard to know if it is due to the mic or the person.
CoolCat
Well-known member
Papanate those Takstar 671 open backs, they sound amazing but are in a cheap feeling light frame. But they've lasted years at this point. Someone on HR recommended them and first I heard of Takstar.
the interesting thing to me is on the AKG P420 , I'm just amazed at how professionally built they are and the weight. The cosmetics with the signature engraved, instead of a cheap sticker etc. And insides a hefty transformer. Takstar capsule seems well liked in DIY...
as always, when using mics the usual comes in to play , small distance changes are more dramatic at times, so comparing a mic the distance can be a big change, as with mixing anything. in my rooms, in a house, idle noise floors come in to play...Ive got blankets and pillows for reflections, but haven't been able to silence the outside world yet..lol
I was really surprised how close the two mics sounded and the DIY gearheads aware the circuit is using the circuit the same...the microphone assasin podcaster, pretty much got it right. On the MOD-capacitor, I think it seems most want a little different tone so the capacitor DIY mod "smooths" it, I haven't done that.
but its a nice mic, and how they can build something that cheap and its not a cheap feeling, mic...the head basket is very strong too, kind of tank built feel...I don't know?
are you impressed with the build?
It seemed a better build than many of my other mics. weird? being so cheap.
the interesting thing to me is on the AKG P420 , I'm just amazed at how professionally built they are and the weight. The cosmetics with the signature engraved, instead of a cheap sticker etc. And insides a hefty transformer. Takstar capsule seems well liked in DIY...
as always, when using mics the usual comes in to play , small distance changes are more dramatic at times, so comparing a mic the distance can be a big change, as with mixing anything. in my rooms, in a house, idle noise floors come in to play...Ive got blankets and pillows for reflections, but haven't been able to silence the outside world yet..lol
I was really surprised how close the two mics sounded and the DIY gearheads aware the circuit is using the circuit the same...the microphone assasin podcaster, pretty much got it right. On the MOD-capacitor, I think it seems most want a little different tone so the capacitor DIY mod "smooths" it, I haven't done that.
but its a nice mic, and how they can build something that cheap and its not a cheap feeling, mic...the head basket is very strong too, kind of tank built feel...I don't know?
are you impressed with the build?
It seemed a better build than many of my other mics. weird? being so cheap.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
The build is very heavy. The Miktek 300 is similar, very heavy, which also means you need to make sure the shockmount is tight so the mic doesn't droop. Both are multipattern, and have transformers, so that may be a commonality. On the other hand, I've had no issue with my NT1, which has been my go to mic.
I've only used it for a couple of recordings and I didn't compare to anything. I've got a project I have been working on to nail a mix, and need to finish that first.
I've only used it for a couple of recordings and I didn't compare to anything. I've got a project I have been working on to nail a mix, and need to finish that first.
CoolCat
Well-known member
the RODE NT1 seems like the "entry to good stuff LDC mics" and makes buying more expensive mics questionable GAS.
the price is right, the build is great, the tlm gets low selfnoise floor , and the nt1 kit it comes with is amazing.25mv/pa (correction)
Its like the U87AI in many ways , kind of a industry HR standard used against all other more expensive mics to question the ROI, imo...
ROI, reminds me of the DMP3, or ART MPA mic pre and then comparing to all the higher end preamps and I didn't hear a difference much.
maybe mics are the same way?
I did something weird and went back to GC before they re-posted the 87 I had returned and re-purchased it!! and will have 45 more days to try it.
Guitar Center was really good, no problem, and as I didn't really get much time using it the first 45 days due to work going crazy busy, maybe this extension will help.
After inspecting it, using it, even taking the capsule out and confirming it was real and clean ..mint.....etc. I still wasn't sure.
Also if I was ever going to get one, preferred a circuit 2 or 6 and this one #6 and it was $1999.99 so the original owner already took the normal Neumann depreciation hit from $4k to $2k ,ouch
... it wont drop in value from $2k most likely fully depreciated.
hmmm? Its like buying that American Fender $$$$ vs so many others, its questionable what's "needed vs gear-deep diving"and $$$$.
There are quality parts and all thats true I suppose. Although a used American Strat is still had at $800-$1k...while brand new hitting $1800...
GC is great for Used gear, 45 day returns, and 6 months 0%.. (in this case 90 day return).
No shipping hassles, just go into the store, like the old days, return or not, no one cares...its used-gear already so the store doesn't care.
the price is right, the build is great, the tlm gets low selfnoise floor , and the nt1 kit it comes with is amazing.25mv/pa (correction)
Its like the U87AI in many ways , kind of a industry HR standard used against all other more expensive mics to question the ROI, imo...
ROI, reminds me of the DMP3, or ART MPA mic pre and then comparing to all the higher end preamps and I didn't hear a difference much.
maybe mics are the same way?
I did something weird and went back to GC before they re-posted the 87 I had returned and re-purchased it!! and will have 45 more days to try it.
Guitar Center was really good, no problem, and as I didn't really get much time using it the first 45 days due to work going crazy busy, maybe this extension will help.
After inspecting it, using it, even taking the capsule out and confirming it was real and clean ..mint.....etc. I still wasn't sure.
Also if I was ever going to get one, preferred a circuit 2 or 6 and this one #6 and it was $1999.99 so the original owner already took the normal Neumann depreciation hit from $4k to $2k ,ouch
... it wont drop in value from $2k most likely fully depreciated.hmmm? Its like buying that American Fender $$$$ vs so many others, its questionable what's "needed vs gear-deep diving"and $$$$.
There are quality parts and all thats true I suppose. Although a used American Strat is still had at $800-$1k...while brand new hitting $1800...
GC is great for Used gear, 45 day returns, and 6 months 0%.. (in this case 90 day return).
No shipping hassles, just go into the store, like the old days, return or not, no one cares...its used-gear already so the store doesn't care.
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TalismanRich
Well-known member
That works if there are used mics in your area. My GC doesn't have anything over Blue Baby Bottle. MusicGoRound has a TLM103 for $760, which isn't a great price and if you don't like it, there's a 10% restocking fee! $2000 seems to be about the low point on Reverb, but then you're taking the risk of a fake or substandard mic these days. I tend to browse Reverb but never buy.
But there are deals to be had occasionally. A few years back I nabbed one of the 2014 Vintage 54 Strats for $1100. They tend to run $2000 to 2500 in Reverb. The last new guitar I bought was at a significant discount.
I keep thinking I need to just use the stuff I have, but I enjoy playing different guitars (I play 4 of them yesterday). A couple of my friends like restoring vintage cars, and compared to that, my music hobby is peanuts! They's spend $25-30K to restore a car, and that's just the parts. They're doing the work themselves.
But there are deals to be had occasionally. A few years back I nabbed one of the 2014 Vintage 54 Strats for $1100. They tend to run $2000 to 2500 in Reverb. The last new guitar I bought was at a significant discount.
I keep thinking I need to just use the stuff I have, but I enjoy playing different guitars (I play 4 of them yesterday). A couple of my friends like restoring vintage cars, and compared to that, my music hobby is peanuts! They's spend $25-30K to restore a car, and that's just the parts. They're doing the work themselves.
CoolCat
Well-known member
GC will charge shipping if I order it in and return it. But this last time I don't think they did. 10% on $2ooo is too much...wow.
Anyway, Ive lost a lot of faith in Reverb and have read too many scams going on...and its getting deeper with scammers moving to the
PayPal then Reverb is out of it....then PayPal will investigate...but the scammers might send an empty box to your area and then show
they sent it!! and its a longer debate.
To sell Used is harder. Reverb reaches out to a lot of people so its tempting. But the scammers have infested Reverb (see that new YouTube on Reverb scams)
then its just a gut feeling to sell to them or not. I just sold a mic for $500 it went great. But then a spare interface and two mics, someone from Russia wanting to
have me sell it to him and he'd have someone in the US pay for it and then offered strange deals... Reverb isn't as advanced as FleaBay....they' might need to get there.
I didn't realize there are people using Fake pictures so everything looks legit and they just scam away and Reverbs not closing them down, they aren't closing down Fake Neumanns, Reverb doesn't make money closing down scammers so its low priority , lip service probably.
At times a new piece of gear gets me writing for some reason, recording, trying it out and write up something. I suppose why real musicians like playing in different studios or outside for a new vibe, or trying new places and new producers?
Anyway, Ive lost a lot of faith in Reverb and have read too many scams going on...and its getting deeper with scammers moving to the
PayPal then Reverb is out of it....then PayPal will investigate...but the scammers might send an empty box to your area and then show
they sent it!! and its a longer debate.
To sell Used is harder. Reverb reaches out to a lot of people so its tempting. But the scammers have infested Reverb (see that new YouTube on Reverb scams)
then its just a gut feeling to sell to them or not. I just sold a mic for $500 it went great. But then a spare interface and two mics, someone from Russia wanting to
have me sell it to him and he'd have someone in the US pay for it and then offered strange deals... Reverb isn't as advanced as FleaBay....they' might need to get there.
I didn't realize there are people using Fake pictures so everything looks legit and they just scam away and Reverbs not closing them down, they aren't closing down Fake Neumanns, Reverb doesn't make money closing down scammers so its low priority , lip service probably.
At times a new piece of gear gets me writing for some reason, recording, trying it out and write up something. I suppose why real musicians like playing in different studios or outside for a new vibe, or trying new places and new producers?
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