Grace m101 ?

[CoolCat]

Always wanted to try one of these M101 preamps. Seem in the past decade the Grace M101, Great River Mn1v, ISA One were the Top 3, entry to "pro" stuff.
Grace was the Clean one, built with top tier piece, while Great River was the "1073-inspired by" and the ISA One was the ISA110 colors of clean with transformer.

Guitar Center has 45 day returns and a pretty large Used inventory. ...so why not?
Grace M101, the black one, with internal power supply and the Ribbon button. Rev 2 and a Unbalanced and Balanced Line Out! very nice.
I suspect not much in sound difference, nothing mentioned online about rev1 and rev2 sounding different so Ill assume same CHIP type clean preamp, spec same.

$500 used, plus ship / tax. First impression was its really light to hold. Then 2nd impression, as I plugged it in, it didn't work at all. No sound!!
Soon that was traced to a pretty severe crackling HPF mechanical push switch. The Ribbon button too had a very loud crackling pops. So once I wiggled the buttons to get sound the volume knobs were tested and very nice feel, with a Stepped Main and a smooth Trim. I opened it up and sprayed the Detoxit and the switches were silent and problem totally eliminated. (see picture 2 )

SUBJECTIVE SOUND and CONFIDENCE:
Sound test immediately lead to compare the interface preamp.
-The Grace is built with top end stuff my interface has a tiny plastic knob.
-The Grace has solid connections Neutrik, Balanced out and Unbalanced Out, it has DI, solid unit offering confidence of top tier gear."industry standard clean preamp"
-I don't have a Ribbon mic but the Ribbon button can be used on dynamics and when pushed the impedance changes and the +48 turned off. An option I might never use.
-The Grace has 75db gain, similar the ISA One that has tons of gain too. My interface works best with hotter mics, the hsssss starts when preamp is pushed into 90-full gain.

Playback of both tracks on both m101 and Interface using the GraceDesign 902 headphone amp with Beyer 280-250ohm, and my results were "the interface preamp sounded really fine, ok, and had no negatives. I doubt anyone could tell a difference" in my HR-hobby hole recordings. Some claim in a top tier studio you can hear the Grace shine more, I don't doubt that one bit. Monitoring is key.
Still its a confident piece of gear, Clean king, ..released in 2008 black-face rev 2, so might need some detoxit on the mechanical switches.

Cheers!

 

[Papanate]

Is the Ribbon button a gain boost?

 

[CoolCat]

According to Grace it adds 10db more, so 85db... Its weird, imo.. when pressed it automatically turns off the Phantom 48v, but when deselected=OFF, if the 48v is On as before. Im not a Ribbon mic expert so this function doesn't do anything for me. I guess for a SM7 or low RE20 you get 10db more.

Main Gain is 65db and the second knob Trim can add 10db more. I had it full blast and pretty quiet.

 

[Papanate]

According to Grace it adds 10db more, so 85db... Its weird, imo.. when pressed it automatically turns off the Phantom 48v, but when deselected=OFF, if the 48v is On as before. Im not a Ribbon mic expert so this function doesn't do anything for me. I guess for a SM7 or low RE20 you get 10db more.

Ribbon mics aren't supposed to get 48v Phantom - so when pressed it turns it off as a safety feature - then when you turn the boost off I think it assumes you aren’t using a ribbon anymore.

Main Gain is 65db and the second knob Trim can add 10db more. I had it full blast and pretty quiet.

With which Mic? Everything except a SM7 or ribbon 75db is more than enough - my Ribbons do well at 60db.

 

[CoolCat]

I agree, the Ribbon removes the 48, led goes off. If a person accidentally pressed it ...doh!

I tossed up a SM7 and then MXL67G. briefly, 1hr or so...full gain just to see what happens with HSSS noise! lol not needing gain., I wasn't recording full blast., it was just testing the knobs etc see if it works. I was at 50% or so, no problems plenty of gain. I worded that wrong. I had it full blast just to listen for noise, "waterfall" HSSS.

The M101 has a simple Gain knob thats stepped 5db each I read, the Trim is linear for fine tuning. No transformer overdrive.
If the Ribbon button is pressed for a Dynamic there's another 10db apparently, that's cool to have and Impedance is higher.

The black-face Grace has Unbalanced Output, the original Chrome-Face didn't have that. That's a nice option with an interface that has Unbalanced Line In like the Line6UX8.
Antelope Audio Zen Go interface I have is all Balanced I/O Neutrik, when its working. I's the most buggy unit Ive ever had.

 

[Papanate]

I agree, the Ribbon removes the 48, led goes off. If a person accidentally pressed it ...doh!

I tossed up a SM7 and then MXL67G. briefly, 1hr or so...full gain just to see what happens with HSSS noise! lol not needing gain., I wasn't recording full blast., it was just testing the knobs etc see if it works. I was at 50% or so, no problems plenty of gain. I worded that wrong. I had it full blast just to listen for noise, "waterfall" HSSS.

The M101 has a simple Gain knob thats stepped 5db each I read, the Trim is linear for fine tuning. No transformer overdrive.
If the Ribbon button is pressed for a Dynamic there's another 10db apparently, that's cool to have and Impedance is higher.

The black-face Grace has Unbalanced Output, the original Chrome-Face didn't have that. That's a nice option with an interface that has Unbalanced Line In like the Line6UX8.
Antelope Audio Zen Go interface I have is all Balanced I/O Neutrik, when its working. I's the most buggy unit Ive ever had.

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What is the rolloff on the HighPass Filter? Seems pretty straight forward - don’t like the color on the LEDs - or at least in the picture they seem distracting.

 

[CoolCat]

its a nice HPF , imo, standard 75hz...most are 80 or so that I like.
some like that U87AI was horrid and started like 300hz or some say 500hz!
the AKG 414 is great hpf and has several to choose.....or leave it flat and do it in the DAW.
Grace is able to remove crap, without robbing the lower pleasent low hz.

I splurged on some cables/ neutriks and will mess some today with it.
Test Drive- 43 days left to return it..lol
its $500 for one qty., Clean preamp. used. hmm?
Day 2- Im using a UX8 2009 interface, or the "sometimes firmware -working Antelope Audio" , plan to compare the three "clean" preamps.
The UX8 interface is chip while the Antelope is discrete, but clean... the outboard Grace is simple and fast, kind of LA2A like , simple gain and a fine tune.
Not much for IO, in comparison to a ISA One, right?

Clean Mic preamps aka Chip based,

 

[CoolCat]

About a week later, replaying the Grace M101 track vs interface preamps and other outboard preamps ISA430/JoeMEekVC1Q, they all sound about the same and the Mics make more a difference. Nothing new here that hasnt been said 1000 times. I went through a pretty deep HR a few years ago on preamps and same results.

Sounds lame to say it but there's some confidence in getting a name brand, pro brand. Grace Design, there's a legacy of well made- transparent gear the name brand gives confidence in product due to professionals whose wide arrange of experience give thumbs up to.
Many remember the Great River Pre vs $29 Art comparison blindfold where Art got 41 Orange votes to the GR 14 Apple votes.
Doesn't mean anything but sound, nothing to do with build quality and longevity but $29 vs $1100? hmm? for HR , for me the name brands then become more "confidence" purchases, placebo like. Still Great River is well liked by Pro;s and Art not so much...despite the SOS blindfold also showing many chose the ART MPA?

how much of it is psychology?

the confidence is there to plug any mic into a Grace Design transparent invisible preamp and feel this is the mic sound.
the reality seems plugging into my interface pre gives the same sound?
The Mind Game is my old Line6 UX8 is $150 used and has 8 ty preamps that all sound the same as the Grace Design m101 $550 used.
so 8x $550 would be $4400. Should my Line 6 interface be selling for $5800? It has AD/DA, it has straight LINE IN, and really good Headphone amp for 300ohm designed.
Maybe my Line 6 UX* should sell for $7500??!!

I have 3qty, maybe Ill post one on Reverb for $7500....anyone want a Line 6 UX8? Ill sell it cheap to HR members for $5500....$2000 savings!

lol

 

[Papanate]

Still Great River is well liked by Pro;s and Art not so much...despite the SOS blindfold also showing many chose the ART MPA?

What’s a ‘Pro’? And the Art is well liked - most people use them because the Great Rivers are expensive - especially after that blind test came out.

how much of it is psychology?

If you ask me most of it is Eye Candy not psychology - seeing an expensive piece of gear is 80% of liking it.

The Mind Game is my old Line6 UX8 is $150 used and has 8 ty preamps that all sound the same as the Grace Design m101 $550 used.

Preamps are over rated - what makes thing sound the way they sound are the people recording it skill set.

so 8x $550 would be $4400. Should my Line 6 interface be selling for $5800?

I have 3qty, maybe Ill post one on Reverb for $7500....anyone want a Line 6 UX8? Ill sell it cheap to HR members for $5500....$2000 savings!

Just shutup already - why do you have let the secret out?

 

[CoolCat]

true.
80% eye-candy ... is interesting comment.

Some reason I think of RANE mic preamps as most simple plain gain, they used a chip and one knob.
Pretty sparse preamp, but Roger Nichols talked of using them on Steely Dan albums, known for hi-end sound. Chip based preamps seem the simplest cheapest approach.
My interface is 8qty, chip preamp with one knob, probably very similar to most chip preamps on interfaces.

Then this "simple" design is taken further with better specs, better knobs, fancy packaging, more I/O, led or VU meters, dressed up and marketed in a good way. Each of these things add to price, but the sound is still a chip-amp design, higher quality parts and build materials expensive...Grace Design , Martech, and probably most Chip Preamp designs on steroids but sounding similar.

off topic-
I've been waiting for months for the backordered Behringer ADA8200 $179 for 8 qty chip preamps, with 8qty analog outputs, and 8qty 1/4 line inputs x 8qty, with ADAT output.
Somehow the ADA8200 Behringer has Balanced or Unbalanced LINE OUT? one XLR?
How is this possible? the Grace M101 has Balanced or Unbalanced but two outputs, XLR or 1/4inch.

 

[Papanate]

off topic-
I've been waiting for months for the backordered Behringer ADA8200 $179 for 8 qty chip preamps, with 8qty analog outputs, and 8qty 1/4 line inputs x 8qty, with ADAT output.

There are used ones all over the place for $120.

Somehow the ADA8200 Behringer has Balanced or Unbalanced LINE OUT? one XLR?
How is this possible? the Grace M101 has Balanced or Unbalanced but two outputs, XLR or 1/4inch.

You have to make cables for Unbalanced XLR to 1/4” Jacks - it was done to save space and dollars.

 

[CoolCat]

Theyve been backordered for months. Now that I read it more its not what I want. I thought it was straight preamp/but seems it isnt.