rob aylestone
Moderator
I rather like the C114. Very, very similar to the 414XLS,
Papanate
Well-known member
They sound similar - but in the silent test the 414 brought forth a high pitch noise - something in the background - the 114 didn’t pick it up - on the guitars the 414 produced a balanced sound - the 114 honked - sort of a midrange punch - that was very noticeable - I suspect the angular build of the 414 caused that - at the Price though I could easily EQ it to sound exactly the same.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
The 114 definitely had a stronger lower mid vs the 414. It showed up on the guitar in spades. It didn't seemed to affect the voice part or the other instruments. I expected to hear it on the clarinet but it wasn't apparent there. Is the increase in the lower mid due to the difference in position rather than the mic itself? Mic placement on a guitar does seem to affect the tonal balance a lot.
I do hear the buzzing on the first part of your "silence" tests around 12 minutes. I put the audio into Audacity and boosted that 6 or 7 seconds by 15dB and you can hear it clearly when you switch mics. The 114 has a bit higher hiss, but the 414 has a buzz, something around 1kHz it seems.
Overall, it seems like a pretty decent mic, especially for the price. The top end seemed to be well matched to the 414.
I do hear the buzzing on the first part of your "silence" tests around 12 minutes. I put the audio into Audacity and boosted that 6 or 7 seconds by 15dB and you can hear it clearly when you switch mics. The 114 has a bit higher hiss, but the 414 has a buzz, something around 1kHz it seems.
Overall, it seems like a pretty decent mic, especially for the price. The top end seemed to be well matched to the 414.
rob aylestone
Moderator
I think the guitar exposed the difference mics in different places make. The buzz was different on the patterns. I wonder if the proximity to the screen did that? For a mic this cheap you could buy a couple for half a 414! I didn’t expect this at all. Not sure if I should keep it or sell it? With mics I don’t need I often do the review then decide to move them on. I think keeping this makes sense.
R
R D Smith
It's as good as it is, for as long as it lasts.
I got my P420 out yesterday and checked it out. I think it sounds good. I didn't have much success recording anything because of all the power glitches. UPS's squealing, and two power transformer explosions in the distance. Between that and the dogs, I gave up. I did notice obvious tonal differences between the different polar patterns. That will be interesting to explore.
CoolCat
Well-known member
Ive never done the AKG classics 414 series/various models...its a deep dive for sure.
The AKG decision to change things is unknown to me, but the Neumann u87ai went through just as many changes and most due to supplied parts becoming obsolete and new parts being forced on them to keep the product line going.
AKG 414, 314, 214, and now the P-series and now the newest C114 and C104 price points "transformerless" mics is similar to Neumanns path of business with TLM.
Interesting line.
as for the U87ai extended 45 days test drive, I had a little more time...in addition to the AKG P420 ( that is really built to be a U87AI...(at the higher 28mv/pa sensitivity and copied AI circuit with the Takstar 87-ish capsule).....I like to do a little, tracking then listen to it back with fresh ears and Open back headphones in ala Engineer Mode.
Its always a reminder when comparing the live take, it has all that stuff going on in the closed back headphones and your brain vibrations while singing or speaking....
so the sitting behind a window as an engineer mode and only listening to the tracks/musicians on the other side of the glass....is a good sales point convincing to Track Clean...in HR land and to not EQ with closed headphones on etc...leave that for the Engineer- Listening Mode later.
P420 and U87AI are so similar in sound.....not in cost though...funny, and in visual looks the U87 (67) visual will always be a classic....no one is going to remove Neumann from the history books is my vibe take on this.
Its funny there's a lot of comments the P420 and U87AI aren't to everyone's taste and for kind of the same reasons.
I don't really see a point in trying to make the P420 sound like a U87i ...other than fun tinkering. In the Recording hacks 87ai 87i the comments were liking the 87AI better, but seems just as many like the 87i for its less sensitivity and that's the main difference....effect of bias on a capsule and tightening the diaphragm Im pure newbie...
U87AI theres R102 that be can changed out to get the HPF closer to 80hz, where its actually higher stock.
maybe a little over 100hz and can make the 87AI thinner sounding, or any mic especially on a male voice, basically dropping everything 125hz and lower, cut.
I have a preamp/channel with "adjustable HPF freq" and confirms the HPF on U87ai is 100hz+.... I think it makes the mic too thin so I leave it off. The same with the Pad on 87ai, its known for some tone-change, but Im not using the AI on a kick drum or anything loud. Not using the Pad either.
Then being a amateurish (no offense to amateurs) low usage player....I don't even use the MultiPatterns either.
P420 was a surprise U87AI clone....I was late to the party on this one. Amazing deal for so cheap too?
The visuals are nothing a like but for $150 a person can toss it around and not worry about it.... its made so well, it will probably take a lot of work.
So 97% of the time both mics will not use the Pad, not use the HPF, and never use the multi-patterns... but the vibe to own a U87AI is there, like owning a US Fender Strat along with the Squiers? weird... like Rob, you mentioned the U87ai is kept safe in a box....I could see that happening here too. If there was a jam recording session the P420 would be there amongst the SM7b and SM57's....which can take a beating and I don't care......not really going to do that with a $2k mic.
I spent too much on a SM7 US collector mode mic...and never use it much either, but owning it is cool vibe for some reason...but the new SM7b gets used on vocals kick drum and sits and gets bumped around no problem...no worry's.
rock on!
The AKG decision to change things is unknown to me, but the Neumann u87ai went through just as many changes and most due to supplied parts becoming obsolete and new parts being forced on them to keep the product line going.
AKG 414, 314, 214, and now the P-series and now the newest C114 and C104 price points "transformerless" mics is similar to Neumanns path of business with TLM.
Interesting line.
as for the U87ai extended 45 days test drive, I had a little more time...in addition to the AKG P420 ( that is really built to be a U87AI...(at the higher 28mv/pa sensitivity and copied AI circuit with the Takstar 87-ish capsule).....I like to do a little, tracking then listen to it back with fresh ears and Open back headphones in ala Engineer Mode.
Its always a reminder when comparing the live take, it has all that stuff going on in the closed back headphones and your brain vibrations while singing or speaking....
so the sitting behind a window as an engineer mode and only listening to the tracks/musicians on the other side of the glass....is a good sales point convincing to Track Clean...in HR land and to not EQ with closed headphones on etc...leave that for the Engineer- Listening Mode later.
P420 and U87AI are so similar in sound.....not in cost though...funny, and in visual looks the U87 (67) visual will always be a classic....no one is going to remove Neumann from the history books is my vibe take on this.
Its funny there's a lot of comments the P420 and U87AI aren't to everyone's taste and for kind of the same reasons.
I don't really see a point in trying to make the P420 sound like a U87i ...other than fun tinkering. In the Recording hacks 87ai 87i the comments were liking the 87AI better, but seems just as many like the 87i for its less sensitivity and that's the main difference....effect of bias on a capsule and tightening the diaphragm Im pure newbie...
U87AI theres R102 that be can changed out to get the HPF closer to 80hz, where its actually higher stock.
maybe a little over 100hz and can make the 87AI thinner sounding, or any mic especially on a male voice, basically dropping everything 125hz and lower, cut.
I have a preamp/channel with "adjustable HPF freq" and confirms the HPF on U87ai is 100hz+.... I think it makes the mic too thin so I leave it off. The same with the Pad on 87ai, its known for some tone-change, but Im not using the AI on a kick drum or anything loud. Not using the Pad either.
Then being a amateurish (no offense to amateurs) low usage player....I don't even use the MultiPatterns either.
P420 was a surprise U87AI clone....I was late to the party on this one. Amazing deal for so cheap too?
The visuals are nothing a like but for $150 a person can toss it around and not worry about it.... its made so well, it will probably take a lot of work.
So 97% of the time both mics will not use the Pad, not use the HPF, and never use the multi-patterns... but the vibe to own a U87AI is there, like owning a US Fender Strat along with the Squiers? weird... like Rob, you mentioned the U87ai is kept safe in a box....I could see that happening here too. If there was a jam recording session the P420 would be there amongst the SM7b and SM57's....which can take a beating and I don't care......not really going to do that with a $2k mic.
I spent too much on a SM7 US collector mode mic...and never use it much either, but owning it is cool vibe for some reason...but the new SM7b gets used on vocals kick drum and sits and gets bumped around no problem...no worry's.
rock on!
CoolCat
Well-known member
just a wrap comment on the U87AI test drive and the recent AKG C414. Somehow I never tried the 414 all these years.
notes:
1.The AKG C414 used price is 1/3 the U87AI
2.The AKG shockmount imo is maybe my fav of any I have ran across, its small and came for FREE, . I really like its simple twist lock and not some large metal-Spider like thing as my others are.
3. AKG 414 also has more patterns and even HyperCardiod for noisier rooms. I might actually use a Cardiod & HyperCardiod.....omni adn fig 8 not so much.
4.The AKG 414 HPF is also one of the best and far better than the U87ai HPF = anemic, the KSM32 has a great hpf, 3 selection HPF. AKG414 40-80-160...very nice option.
interesting reading of the "years of changes" in AKG and as with Shure and Neumann, the mergers and changes of locations, or loss of transformers seems to be same. Being in the US , I find it odd that the Austria move to Hungary is a big deal 4hr away?, but forums bring it up a lot. Some dumped AKG others dont care. Neumann and Shure are the same.Shure is pretty much 90% China now I think. An importer at work said "india is the new china" for manufacturing cheaper...so maybe Shure India mics are next?
too bad sweetwater didnt get the perception series included...but the AKG 14 line are there.
https://www.sweetwater.com/feature/vocal-mic-shootout/
notes:
1.The AKG C414 used price is 1/3 the U87AI
2.The AKG shockmount imo is maybe my fav of any I have ran across, its small and came for FREE, . I really like its simple twist lock and not some large metal-Spider like thing as my others are.
3. AKG 414 also has more patterns and even HyperCardiod for noisier rooms. I might actually use a Cardiod & HyperCardiod.....omni adn fig 8 not so much.
4.The AKG 414 HPF is also one of the best and far better than the U87ai HPF = anemic, the KSM32 has a great hpf, 3 selection HPF. AKG414 40-80-160...very nice option.
interesting reading of the "years of changes" in AKG and as with Shure and Neumann, the mergers and changes of locations, or loss of transformers seems to be same. Being in the US , I find it odd that the Austria move to Hungary is a big deal 4hr away?, but forums bring it up a lot. Some dumped AKG others dont care. Neumann and Shure are the same.Shure is pretty much 90% China now I think. An importer at work said "india is the new china" for manufacturing cheaper...so maybe Shure India mics are next?
too bad sweetwater didnt get the perception series included...but the AKG 14 line are there.
https://www.sweetwater.com/feature/vocal-mic-shootout/
CoolCat
Well-known member
I record tracks then listen to them over time, fresh ears , etc... and with no horse in this race, I really chose my voice on the P420 over all others.
Its a U87ai kind of thing but for $150 and you get a shockmount and case...Takstar capsule, maybe I got a good capsule? but its really a great deal all-round surprise for me.
Not saying the others are far off, but for not needing EQ, im a bit surprised with the 420. ..when I did mic preamp comparisons I wasnt hearing some huge omg! this it!, instead theres a subtle thing as many said before...
its a weird world these days in gear, like my US Stratocaster Deluxe, and my $189 Vietnam semiholow is every bit an equal sound, much different but really an amazing piece for the cost.
whats next? outstanding $50 mics?
Papanate
Well-known member
Yes - everything is being equalized - the $6000 U87ai mic in the home studio is not incremental better than the MXL 67 through monitors and average preamps- the things you get when you spend the oney? better S/N - a more consistent sound - and EQ shape that is easier to work with - but in the end everyone still has their vocals and their playing to contend with - and if you aren’t a distinct sounding and playing character - it won’t matter - and then their is just the magic that happens with any microphone and singer/player - some thing work better than any other - in your case it’s the AKG P240.
CoolCat
Well-known member
paralysis can set in....funny the $13,000 classic prices created a entire cloner industry and blackmarket industry.
Im using Guitar Centers Return Policy instead of buying and selling and Reverb fees and shipping losses. Been great U87AI, AKG414, others too... thanks GC!
Last time I spent $$$ comparing Preamps on my own card and paid shipping and did all that Reverb sales crap...blah...GC is the way for trying gear! 45 day Returns!
another thing is interesting imo, the history of tubes, replaced with transistors/FETS, and now surface mount....and the P420 is surface mount, clean but they start going old school and adding transformers again..lol
"poor mans" U87AI= P420 and the U87i = MXL V67... recording hacks, ...U87 is copied and cloned to death..lol
Im using Guitar Centers Return Policy instead of buying and selling and Reverb fees and shipping losses. Been great U87AI, AKG414, others too... thanks GC!
Last time I spent $$$ comparing Preamps on my own card and paid shipping and did all that Reverb sales crap...blah...GC is the way for trying gear! 45 day Returns!
another thing is interesting imo, the history of tubes, replaced with transistors/FETS, and now surface mount....and the P420 is surface mount, clean but they start going old school and adding transformers again..lol
"poor mans" U87AI= P420 and the U87i = MXL V67... recording hacks, ...U87 is copied and cloned to death..lol
rob aylestone
Moderator
Microphones are just like car tyres. There is huge amounts of physics, research and development and yet how many of us actually can detect the difference. My Range Rover hates shiny manhole covers on gentle bends - it sort of skits sideways, which my van and my wife's car don't do. Does this mean the crazily expensive huge things are less good than the cheap ones on my van - the van ones certainly last longer? When you need new tyres do you go for the well known and expensive tyres because they really are better, or do you go for something mid price, in the hope they perform well, yet won't cost crazy sums? Others will cite how safe the expensive ones are and how you are likely to die if you buy the cheap ones. The reality is that unless you have a lab, you are buying black and round. In all my tests of mics, not one has come out as remotely 'best'. Some are truly awful - sounding really bad, but they are very rare. We buy big name branded tyres. Instead of testing them on track, or in a 4WD on nasty surfaces, we drive to the shops. This is exactly like we do with mics. That Shure 57 we slap on drums never gets a chance on vocals or trumpets - because we've bought ABC for vocals and ZYK for brass. Has anyone never used a mic they have handy for unexpected things and been impressed? I have, loads of times.
The daft Facebook group I mentioned the other day had a guy say he was recording two pianos and a double bass and he listed his mics available. Perfectly decent, actually quite nice ones, and one response was "hire in some better ones". Do these people live in the real world?
The daft Facebook group I mentioned the other day had a guy say he was recording two pianos and a double bass and he listed his mics available. Perfectly decent, actually quite nice ones, and one response was "hire in some better ones". Do these people live in the real world?
R
RRuskin
Rick Ruskin
To paraphrase AEA's founder, Wes Dooley, "The mics you have are the best for the job."
CoolCat
Well-known member
Im seeing a lot of gear as with these mics and can agree on the car rubber subtle differences with brand new to brand new.
Mics being tested in a HR way, using ears and all that Im not hearing massive differences but more than I didnt hear much differences with clean preamps.
My experience when I get really noisy or differences its often a bad cable or something is a failing part, or maybe an old old worn piece...
Rob listening to your 114 video clip, its great with all the different instruments too, really well done and thanks.
The timing of your 414 XLS was fun for me , I just grabbed a 414LTD and the 420 and 214 ...no 114 yet...
The miniscule differences you mention, "which one is which" in a blind shoots out or with music playing, a lot of it is unimportant.
I really like the 414 here, for me better much than the U87ai.
1. The 414 also gets the "pro standard " vibename classic "industry standard" etc.. of having a top tier mic brain buzz way...
2. The AKG414 Im really impressed with the Used Price too and its a chunk of change but $600~700 used, for me more enjoyed price.
3.5STAR....the Total Kit!!!...leaves the Neumann far far far behind and not even close.
AKG kit....I love the smaller excellent shockmount that comes in the AKG case! Probably my favorite shock design of any mic, and the mics shaft and ease of working it.
Its a FULL case with lots of candy, more like the excellent deals of old US Shure KSM in cases! and excellent shockmounts!,and velvet pouch! and papers! and windscreens!!! and POP SCREENS!!!! omg!! what a FULL KIT DEAL... ALL INCLUDED! etc...AKG 414 very 5 star used deal for the "kit".
**C214 for $200 used is same fit, interchangeable with shock etc...
4. the AKG414 nails the HPF, where U87ai just has a really really strange anemic choice...
5. AKG 414 offers the Patterns and for a HR room, the Hyper cardiod pretty cool....two cardiods!
For my ears the 214 is tweaked to sound more crispy and I get why some people would prefer that eq'd sound, its like pre-eq'd and if it works would work well. 414XLS more neutral and more similar to Shure KSM clean, neutral a "safe bet". Using the HPF the 214 cleans up a lot of its bass, which might be better for sitting in a mix, where the soft bass left on-no hpf maybe is preferred doing a vocal only or a vocal/acoustic guitar track. Its a different sound imo. Mine shows made in Hungary, 2~3hrs away from Austria.
* it doesn't have the fat transformer, neither does the Austrian Audio OC818....so transformerless mics.
However getting back to "sound only", it seems the quality and ability can be had for cheap.
the 114 seems to be a great deal. The 420 with its Fat Transformer and U87ai circuit, at $150 or $90 used is amazing, and the C214 at $200 used comes with KIT.!!!...
$200 brand new prices is crazy....the P420 came in a nice case, shock mount.... (and less used), work amazingly well. Surface Mount parts and "tweaking" the capsules and circuits seem to get the noise down and high sizzle tamed. Even a Used AKGC214 $200 is very nice too, with case, windscreen, same shock mount as 414, manual and HPF and PAD. MXL V67 G, hangs in there fine.
interesting for me comparing with actual 414 or U87AI, makes me more impressed with the cheaper mics....mystified a bit?
Mics being tested in a HR way, using ears and all that Im not hearing massive differences but more than I didnt hear much differences with clean preamps.
My experience when I get really noisy or differences its often a bad cable or something is a failing part, or maybe an old old worn piece...
Rob listening to your 114 video clip, its great with all the different instruments too, really well done and thanks.
The timing of your 414 XLS was fun for me , I just grabbed a 414LTD and the 420 and 214 ...no 114 yet...
The miniscule differences you mention, "which one is which" in a blind shoots out or with music playing, a lot of it is unimportant.
I really like the 414 here, for me better much than the U87ai.
1. The 414 also gets the "pro standard " vibename classic "industry standard" etc.. of having a top tier mic brain buzz way...
2. The AKG414 Im really impressed with the Used Price too and its a chunk of change but $600~700 used, for me more enjoyed price.
3.5STAR....the Total Kit!!!...leaves the Neumann far far far behind and not even close.
AKG kit....I love the smaller excellent shockmount that comes in the AKG case! Probably my favorite shock design of any mic, and the mics shaft and ease of working it.
Its a FULL case with lots of candy, more like the excellent deals of old US Shure KSM in cases! and excellent shockmounts!,and velvet pouch! and papers! and windscreens!!! and POP SCREENS!!!! omg!! what a FULL KIT DEAL... ALL INCLUDED! etc...AKG 414 very 5 star used deal for the "kit".
**C214 for $200 used is same fit, interchangeable with shock etc...
4. the AKG414 nails the HPF, where U87ai just has a really really strange anemic choice...
5. AKG 414 offers the Patterns and for a HR room, the Hyper cardiod pretty cool....two cardiods!
For my ears the 214 is tweaked to sound more crispy and I get why some people would prefer that eq'd sound, its like pre-eq'd and if it works would work well. 414XLS more neutral and more similar to Shure KSM clean, neutral a "safe bet". Using the HPF the 214 cleans up a lot of its bass, which might be better for sitting in a mix, where the soft bass left on-no hpf maybe is preferred doing a vocal only or a vocal/acoustic guitar track. Its a different sound imo. Mine shows made in Hungary, 2~3hrs away from Austria.
* it doesn't have the fat transformer, neither does the Austrian Audio OC818....so transformerless mics.
However getting back to "sound only", it seems the quality and ability can be had for cheap.
the 114 seems to be a great deal. The 420 with its Fat Transformer and U87ai circuit, at $150 or $90 used is amazing, and the C214 at $200 used comes with KIT.!!!...
$200 brand new prices is crazy....the P420 came in a nice case, shock mount.... (and less used), work amazingly well. Surface Mount parts and "tweaking" the capsules and circuits seem to get the noise down and high sizzle tamed. Even a Used AKGC214 $200 is very nice too, with case, windscreen, same shock mount as 414, manual and HPF and PAD. MXL V67 G, hangs in there fine.
interesting for me comparing with actual 414 or U87AI, makes me more impressed with the cheaper mics....mystified a bit?
CoolCat
Well-known member
I was wondering about the AKG 414 design and the PAD, and found a really good review by Ty Ford.
Like the U87i vs U87ai, the main difference seemed to be the voltage bias on the capsule was increased to be 60v on the AI, which changed the sensitivity of 8mv/pa to 28mv/pa (AI). Always thought it would have been nice if Neumann had added a option to drop the bias voltage internally for the users who wanted the "vintage" vs the "modern" sound.
AKG 414, does this capsule voltage change, which is different than many of the other mic designs, as Ty Ford mentions.
The new mics offer more pad choices. Whereas the older C 414s only employed a -10 dB and -20 dB pad, the new mics provide -6 dB, -12 dB and -18 dB. Padding is achieved, not by adding resistance before or after the FET, but by lowering the voltage on the capsule.
https://tyfordaudiovideo.blogspot.com/2012/09/not-your-fathers-akg-c-414-xls-and-xl-ii.html
add another positive on the 414 list..
SOUND ON SOUND SOS
The AKG C414 XLS/XLII microphones feature a 4-position attenuation pad (0dB, -6dB, -12dB, -18dB) that changes the sensitivity of the microphone, allowing it to handle high sound pressure levels (SPL) without distorting the internal electronics.
Sound On Sound +1
Like the U87i vs U87ai, the main difference seemed to be the voltage bias on the capsule was increased to be 60v on the AI, which changed the sensitivity of 8mv/pa to 28mv/pa (AI). Always thought it would have been nice if Neumann had added a option to drop the bias voltage internally for the users who wanted the "vintage" vs the "modern" sound.
AKG 414, does this capsule voltage change, which is different than many of the other mic designs, as Ty Ford mentions.
The new mics offer more pad choices. Whereas the older C 414s only employed a -10 dB and -20 dB pad, the new mics provide -6 dB, -12 dB and -18 dB. Padding is achieved, not by adding resistance before or after the FET, but by lowering the voltage on the capsule.
https://tyfordaudiovideo.blogspot.com/2012/09/not-your-fathers-akg-c-414-xls-and-xl-ii.html
add another positive on the 414 list..
SOUND ON SOUND SOS
The AKG C414 XLS/XLII microphones feature a 4-position attenuation pad (0dB, -6dB, -12dB, -18dB) that changes the sensitivity of the microphone, allowing it to handle high sound pressure levels (SPL) without distorting the internal electronics.
Sound On Sound +1
- Pad Settings: The C414 XLS/XLII models include options for 0, -6, -12, and -18 dB attenuation.
- Method of Attenuation: The pad works by reducing the polarization voltage applied to the capsule, rather than using standard shunting capacitors, which ensures lower distortion when recording high-output sources.
- SPL Handling: The max SPL without the pad is 140 dB. Engaging the pads increases this handling to:
- 0dB Pad: 140 dB SPL.
- -6dB Pad: 146 dB SPL.
- -12dB Pad: 152 dB SPL.
- -18dB Pad: 158 dB SPL.
- Sensitivity Impact: The nominal sensitivity of the current C414 XLS is 23 mV/Pa (-33 dBV). Engaging the pads reduces this output sensitivity proportionally to the selected dB value (e.g., the -18dB pad reduces the output by 18dB)
TalismanRich
Well-known member
The UT Twin87 achieves it's vintage/modern setting by changing the bias voltage on the capsule. I don't know if there are additional changes in things like the deemphasis circuit. I imagine it would be difficult to know if there's a difference in how the sensitivity is achieved, resistance in the signal path vs decreasing the bias voltage, unless you actually tested it within a single mic.
CoolCat
Well-known member
UT Twin 87 really did a good job in design offering modern and vintage and more.
Different designs to the same goal of "pad", Im not a level of gearhead to know what is really being done...but the Vbias seemed to be the "big thing" between the U87i and 87ai.
Different designs to the same goal of "pad", Im not a level of gearhead to know what is really being done...but the Vbias seemed to be the "big thing" between the U87i and 87ai.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
Hey CC,
I finally got around to really working with the P420. For our next jam, I wanted to try 50 Ways To Leave Your Lover. On Youtube, there was a fellow who did a track to the song, and posted the raw drum track. I did bass and a single guitar, and did the vocal with both the Rode NT1 and the AKG P420, side by side with me in the middle about 10 inches away. Up to now, the NT1 has been my go to vocal mic.
Here's two segments with each mic of a verse. Right now I'm leaning heavily towards the P420. They have the exact same EQ setting (clear vocal in ReaEQ) and are matched for level. Both vocals go to the same reverb send, so that's a constant. I normalized both vocal track to -5dBFS, so levels are matched pretty well.
What do you think? Stick with the Rode, or start going with the P420?
NT1
P420
I finally got around to really working with the P420. For our next jam, I wanted to try 50 Ways To Leave Your Lover. On Youtube, there was a fellow who did a track to the song, and posted the raw drum track. I did bass and a single guitar, and did the vocal with both the Rode NT1 and the AKG P420, side by side with me in the middle about 10 inches away. Up to now, the NT1 has been my go to vocal mic.
Here's two segments with each mic of a verse. Right now I'm leaning heavily towards the P420. They have the exact same EQ setting (clear vocal in ReaEQ) and are matched for level. Both vocals go to the same reverb send, so that's a constant. I normalized both vocal track to -5dBFS, so levels are matched pretty well.
What do you think? Stick with the Rode, or start going with the P420?
NT1
P420
CoolCat
Well-known member
on that song in those takes , my 2 cents is the P420 is a lot smoother, sounds very good doesnt it?
impressive even more to hear it on your tracks thanks. it just seems off the price and how good it sounds, its a mental thing.
theres obviously a nice capsule in that p420 and the circuit is a copy, so it has a u87ai sound.
I listened to it several times and the 420 has smoother something. Theres a freq on the other thats more pronounced but Im not good at guessing.
I have a 414 xls thats flat and at first reminded me of Shure KSM, but its got a very interesting build etc.
A WA14 showed up and inside is well done, transformer, brassring and copy of EB circuit (i guess copying circuits is legal? everyones doing it)
Havent done much listening.
impressive even more to hear it on your tracks thanks. it just seems off the price and how good it sounds, its a mental thing.
theres obviously a nice capsule in that p420 and the circuit is a copy, so it has a u87ai sound.
I listened to it several times and the 420 has smoother something. Theres a freq on the other thats more pronounced but Im not good at guessing.
I have a 414 xls thats flat and at first reminded me of Shure KSM, but its got a very interesting build etc.
A WA14 showed up and inside is well done, transformer, brassring and copy of EB circuit (i guess copying circuits is legal? everyones doing it)
Havent done much listening.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
Thanks.
I thought the NT1 was a bit thick sounding on this. I would probably have EQ'd out a bit of the bottom end. But at this point, I am liking the AKG. I'll probably try it recording some acoustic guitar. I need to add the acoustic parts to the recording before I'm done. If I can come up with some harmony parts, I'll add those. Unfortunately I can't do what the ladies sang on the original.
On a different note, I was reading a thread elsewhere with a comparison of a U87 vs a $30 Temu TF22. The fellow posted two takes blindly, and it was funny that some people picked the TF22 as the U87. The TF22 is supposed to be a clone of the a Telefunken. So a $30 Chinese mic beat out a $3000 Neumann! I haven't read any comments since the big reveal. How many people backtracked after the got the "answers"?
I thought the NT1 was a bit thick sounding on this. I would probably have EQ'd out a bit of the bottom end. But at this point, I am liking the AKG. I'll probably try it recording some acoustic guitar. I need to add the acoustic parts to the recording before I'm done. If I can come up with some harmony parts, I'll add those. Unfortunately I can't do what the ladies sang on the original.
On a different note, I was reading a thread elsewhere with a comparison of a U87 vs a $30 Temu TF22. The fellow posted two takes blindly, and it was funny that some people picked the TF22 as the U87. The TF22 is supposed to be a clone of the a Telefunken. So a $30 Chinese mic beat out a $3000 Neumann! I haven't read any comments since the big reveal. How many people backtracked after the got the "answers"?
PorterhouseMusic
Well-known member
Fwiw - I listened closely to both of those clips in a/b fashion- I also preferred the P420 clip. Smoother and more open to my ears.
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