The New Tone Thread

[Greg_L]

That's cool dude, no hurry on my part either, I'd have to put a little $$$ aside for the T75 anyway, seems I'm always a broke fucker anymore....The $$$ I had saved up for the "big" amp, well, my parents needed some help last month & I wasn't about to turn 'em down ya know...But anyway, lemme know if/how/when, I'll be here....When you get ready to do this, pm me & I'll send you my cell # too so we can actually talk....Thanks Greg, if we do this, this'll help me out quite a bit (the T75 especially) & may save you about $100 or so....The T75 is 16 ohms, right????

Since I'm here, I've read the debate on 8 vs. 16 ohm tone difference, do you personally think there is one??? I wouldn't think so myself, but don't know from experience....

A buddy is supposed to send me another Duncan Custom Custom, but with some different magnets to try in the strat, so maybe all these "little" things will keep me at bay for a while...

Yes, the G12T-75 will be 16 ohm. The V30 will be 8 ohm. If you use two separate 1x12 cabs for your 8 ohm Greenback and my 8 ohm V30 you'll have to wire up the cabs to be daisy chained in series to be a 16 ohm load since you have only one speaker output on the head. You'll only be able to use the T75 by itself.

No, I don't think there is any tonal difference between 8 or 16 ohm as long as the amp sees what it's expecting to see. An amp set to 8 ohm that sees an 8 ohm speaker load will sound the same as an amp set to 16 ohm seeing a 16 ohm load. Solid state output sections are different, like they'll be louder with a lower speaker load, but with tube amps, the way I described is usually how it is in my experience. I don't know the technical specifics or electrical theory behind it, I just know what I hear personally. I hear no difference. I ran my JMP through an 8 ohm V30 4x12 the other day. It didn't sound really any different than my 16 ohm V30 2x12 besides one being a 4x12 and one being a 2x12. Even then the general tone was the same.

 

[Lt. Bob]

the only possible caveat to that is that if an amp has 8 ohm taps and 16 ohm taps the 8ohm tap is not gonna go thru all the windings of the tranny while the 16 ohm tap will use them all.
I do feel like my Tiny Terror sounds somewhat better thru it's 16 ohm tap. Could be my imagination but I feel like I hear a slight difference.

Oddly my old Ampegs don't even have a 16 ohm tap but DO have 2 ohm taps. Why? Dunno. But with them the 8 ohm tap is gonna use all of the trenny's windings.

 

[Greg_L]

Hey Lt Boob, I ordered a P-Rails for the Hallmark. Should be here in a few days. I'm pretty excited about trying it out.

 

[Lt. Bob]

so I tried my GVT-5 tonight at rehearsal ..... it tried to kill me!!

I've been super sick since Sunday ... the flu I guess ... anyway I was marginally better today and made rehearsal 'cause I ain't no pussy. But I could barely stand up. First time I was outta bed and I've eaten almost nothing.
Anyway ......... I'd checked the amp out at home to make sure it worked but when I got there it gave no sound.......... I reached around back just jiggle the cord and BAM!! I got the shit shocked outta me!
I mean serious shock ..... getting shocked doesn't bother me or scare me but this was pretty damned strong ..... maybe 110.
Gave me a buzz for sure!

I think I have it figured out . the jack I had on the cable coming from that particular speaker is a 1/4" TRS that I had handy when I needed it and I just used the tip and the body leaving the ring disconnected. I think that had something to do with it. I'll let ya' know.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Hey Lt Boob, I ordered a P-Rails for the Hallmark. Should be here in a few days. I'm pretty excited about trying it out.

cool ... I hope you like 'em.

 

[Greg_L]

so I tried my GVT-5 tonight at rehearsal ..... it tried to kill me!!

I've been super sick since Sunday ... the flu I guess ... anyway I was marginally better today and made rehearsal 'cause I ain't no pussy. But I could barely stand up. First time I was outta bed and I've eaten almost nothing.
Anyway ......... I'd checked the amp out at home to make sure it worked but when I got there it gave no sound.......... I reached around back just jiggle the cord and BAM!! I got the shit shocked outta me!
I mean serious shock ..... getting shocked doesn't bother me or scare me but this was pretty damned strong ..... maybe 110.
Gave me a buzz for sure!

I think I have it figured out . the jack I had on the cable coming from that particular speaker is a 1/4" TRS that I had handy when I needed it and I just used the tip and the body leaving the ring disconnected. I think that had something to do with it. I'll let ya' know.

Lol. Damn, glad you're alright. Feel better now?

cool ... I hope you like 'em.

Me too. I've been interested in the design for a long time. Actually, I think it was your Stinnet that gave me my first look at them back at A&A when Will was building them. First time I'd seen them.

 

[minerman]

Bob: Clips, I want clips of the Ampeg....You sound like me when I used to gig, I'd never miss a practice or gig, no matter what...So, how'd the little Ampeg sound anyway???

Greg: You're right on the one speaker out on the Marshall Greg, but the Tweaker has 2, with selectable ohms: 4, 8, & 16.....But you're still right about daisy-chaining the cabs together....Lemme know when you wanna do this, I'm up for it!!!

Should have another Duncan Custom Custom in about a week, a buddy is sending me another one, with a couple different magnets to try in my Strat....I was gonna change strings on my guitars this weekend, but now I'm gonna wait until I get the p'up...Dunno if it'll improve the Strat's tone or not (I did try the CC I've got in the Ibanez in the Strat first, & it was terrible, shrill, with no bottom), but I'm gonna give it a shot....According to my buddy, the CC, the original custom, the custom 5 and the custom 8 are all the same pickup, they just have different magnets in them, so again, I'm gonna give it a shot....

On the 8ohm vs. 16ohm thing, I myself just thought it was snake oil, unless Bob's onto something about the transformer...Doesn't matter with me, I'd still sound like shit even if it did make a difference....

 

[Lt. Bob]

Bob: Clips, I want clips of the Ampeg....You sound like me when I used to gig, I'd never miss a practice or gig, no matter what...So, how'd the little Ampeg sound anyway???

I didn't get to find out since it tried to kill me!

Lol. Damn, glad you're alright. Feel better now?

oddly enough I did for a while. I'm pretty whupped right now though.

The new p-rails should be an improvement over mine. I got some of the first ones and the single coil mode is a lot lower output than the bucker and p90 modes ..... I've since learned to use that very thing but I've always whished the single coils were a bit hotter and I've read that they have, in fact, made that change in the newer ones.

 

[Greg_L]

The new p-rails should be an improvement over mine. I got some of the first ones and the single coil mode is a lot lower output than the bucker and p90 modes ..... I've since learned to use that very thing but I've always whished the single coils were a bit hotter and I've read that they have, in fact, made that change in the newer ones.

There is a new "hot" P-Rails out, but I got the standard one. The hot version has gotten some bad reviews, they say it's muddy, although I've obviously never tried it myself. If the standard sounds similar enough to a Strat bridge pickup in rail mode, I'll be happy. I'm mostly interested in the P-90 mode. And with this new band and their slightly more diverse sound I wanna use the Hallmark more just because it's so unique and fun to play. Being able to flip between single, P-90, and humbucker tones all in that one guitar has got me pretty geeked up about it.

 

[Lt. Bob]

There is a new "hot" P-Rails out, but I got the standard one. The hot version has gotten some bad reviews, they say it's muddy, although I've obviously never tried it myself. If the standard sounds similar enough to a Strat bridge pickup in rail mode, I'll be happy. I'm mostly interested in the P-90 mode. And with this new band and their slightly more diverse sound I wanna use the Hallmark more just because it's so unique and fun to play. Being able to flip between single, P-90, and humbucker tones all in that one guitar has got me pretty geeked up about it.

I really like the P90 mode and bucker modes in mine so I hope you have the same experience. I pretty much leave the neck in P90 and the bridge in bucker ..... they both sound good on their own and using both has some sorta phase cancellation that gives a nice sound for strumming rhythms.

And if I'm a bit too loud on something I can flip one to single coil and I'm not too loud so it's useful for the variety of shit I do.

 

[Greg_L]

I really like the P90 mode and bucker modes in mine so I hope you have the same experience. I pretty much leave the neck in P90 and the bridge in bucker ..... they both sound good on their own and using both has some sorta phase cancellation that gives a nice sound for strumming rhythms.

And if I'm a bit too loud on something I can flip one to single coil and I'm not too loud so it's useful for the variety of shit I do.

Awesome. Sounds great. I only got the bridge pickup. I don't use the neck p/u on any of my guitars, but if I like the P-Rails I might get the neck version too. I've been seeing one on my local CL for a long time. 40 bucks.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Well .. sick or not I couldn't let it go so I changed to cord on that speaker and it worked fine.
It has those 'floating' speaker jacks that are isolated from the chassis and for some reason putting in a TRS instead of a normal 1/4" plug sent high voltage to the jack .. not sure why that would happen. Maybe I'll look at a schematic and figure it out but that would take some effort so prolly not. I could ask someone ..... maybe I'll do that.

Then I dismantled the Ampeg to make sure I didn't see anything burnt up inside and it looked fine ........ and that little bastard is VERY solidly built.
Sick as I was I couldn't rest 'till I'd done all that ...... took 'till 3:30am.
What a OCD'er I am.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Alritey then ...... this thing is GREAT! WAY more headroom than any of my other low wattage amps ..... actually even more clean headroom than the 15 watt Tiny Terror. It sounds great. I really made a good decision to get this .... I may even get rid of one or two of the others.

Actually ...... I don't think ya'll would like it. It does NOT ever get anything even resembling high gain.
With everything dimed it does a decent aggressive crunch and that's it.
But for me ..... I don't get these little amps for recording ..... I have a stable of nice amps for that ..... I've just been looking for a small amp that gives a big amp sound without being loud ..... but it has to be loud enough ya' know?

5 watts is perfect for a lot of these gigs but every 5 watter I've tried just didn't have enough headroom to stay clean at the right volume I needed.
Only a little bit shy .... but it was enough so when I'd turn it to be loud enough there'd be grit in the sound.

I LOATH that ...... I want CLEAN dammit!!
At these volumes I'm gonna have to get my dirt with pedals anyway so the clean is what I'm wanting and I just haven't been able to find it ..... 'till now.
And the thing looks great. I'm gonna build some matching cabs ...... each with a 10 and have a little mini-stack!
I'll always just use one of course.

I'll get ya'll some clips but right now I gotta start getting gear together.
Trying to do a location recording of my band tomorrow night .... if any of that is any good I'll might put some up.

 

[Greg_L]

Alritey then ...... this thing is GREAT! WAY more headroom than any of my other low wattage amps ..... actually even more clean headroom than the 15 watt Tiny Terror. It sounds great. I really made a good decision to get this .... I may even get rid of one or two of the others.

Actually ...... I don't think ya'll would like it. It does NOT ever get anything even resembling high gain.
With everything dimed it does a decent aggressive crunch and that's it.
But for me ..... I don't get these little amps for recording ..... I have a stable of nice amps for that ..... I've just been looking for a small amp that gives a big amp sound without being loud ..... but it has to be loud enough ya' know?

5 watts is perfect for a lot of these gigs but every 5 watter I've tried just didn't have enough headroom to stay clean at the right volume I needed.
Just a little bit ....t but it was enough so when I'd turn it to be loud enough there'd be grit in the sound.

I LOATH that ...... I want CLEAN dammit!!
At these volumes I'm gonna have to get my dirt with pedals anyway so the clean is what I'm wanting and I just haven't been able to find it ..... 'till now.
And the thing looks great. I'm gonna build some matching cabs ...... each with a 10 and have a little mini-stack!
I'll always just use on, of course.

I'll get ya'll some clips but right now I gotta start getting gear together.
Trying to do a location recording of my band tomorrow night .... if any of that is any good I'll might put some up.

That's great Boob! Glad you like it and it still hasn't killed you. I know you like that pristine clean without a bit of grit. I don't really like that clean on the verge of breakup either. I usually like it really clean or well into crunchy. Let's hear it when you get a chance!

 

[minerman]

Bob: Glad to hear you like the new amp, that's always good!!!! No hurry on the clips dude, I'm just curious to what the 'lil Ampeg sounds like, but it's all good man...Glad to hear it ain't killed you either dude, to be honest, I'm not scared to death of electricity, but I have a great respect for it... I deal with it on a daily basis at work, & know what it can do to a person....The cable I handle 8 hours a day has 995 volts running through it....

Greg: I've been looking at some different Celestion speakers the last couple days, you've got some of the 65's, right??? How do they compare sound wise with a Greenback or V30??? Would it compliment any of the speakers I already have (& the T75 too)???? Just curious, I know you did some comparison clips awhile back, & I liked the 65 on it's own, but just wondering if they're blended with another speaker how it'd sound....

 

[Greg_L]

Greg: I've been looking at some different Celestion speakers the last couple days, you've got some of the 65's, right??? How do they compare sound wise with a Greenback or V30??? Would it compliment any of the speakers I already have (& the T75 too)???? Just curious, I know you did some comparison clips awhile back, & I liked the 65 on it's own, but just wondering if they're blended with another speaker how it'd sound....

The G12-65s are like a Greenback on steroids. I love em. A Greenback is really loose, middy, and crunchy, and a 75 is really tight and controlled with enhanced lows and highs. The 65 falls somewhere right smack in the middle. It's not as "modern" as a 75, but it stays controlled better than a Greenback while having a kind of vintage-ish crunch to it. If you got your hands on one I don't think you'd be disappointed. You gotta find an old one though, or go with the WGS ET-65. Celestion's new reissue Heritage 65s don't sound the same as the classics and I've never heard anyone rant or rave about them like the originals. If you're talking strictly for recording, they all blend together well. The V30 is obviously a completely different animal from all of them and nothing sounds like it. The Vintage 30 is a true freak in the Celestion catalog. But in a mix they all work great together and for me the Greenback is my go-to speaker. I always make sure to do one Greenback track, and then the others can be combination of the other speakers I have handy. I think you should also consider the Classic Lead. I've never tried one in person, but I've heard some killer clips from one of those speakers. It's generally regarded as a pretty "neutral" speaker.

 

[Greg_L]

Whaddaya know....I still got those clips....

G12-65
G12T-75
Greenback
Vintage 30

 

[Lt. Bob]

Whaddaya know....I still got those clips....

those are really good, useful clips.

I'm not scared to death of electricity, but I have a great respect for it... I deal with it on a daily basis at work, & know what it can do to a person....The cable I handle 8 hours a day has 995 volts running through it....

..

yeah ...... that's a different animal entirely. I'm just talking 110 here .... but there's a lot of "OMG YOU'RE GONNA DIE!!!!!" around here at the slightest hint of someone opening their amp or getting shocked when their lips touch the mic and I just find it silly.
Try to find ANYone that knows of someone who was killed that way ...... no one .... not a single person knows of anyone.

Google it ...... I was able to find two in total worldwide.
That's not to say there haven't been others but you can't really find any so it's, at the very least, extremely rare.

I looked hard one day when I was bored and in total I found two examples of deaths from amplifiers shocking someone. Two instances out of quite literally many billions (trillions maybe?) of times of people doing this stuff.
While it can happen the chances are remote and WAY overblown.
The biggest danger is that you'll get shocked and jerk your hand back so hard you slam it into something and get cut or injured.

One time I had a bass amp that had the power switch knocked around and it was putting 110v to the bass! When I walked up and my lips touched the mic it was like someone had hit me in the face with a bat!. Knocked me to the floor!! And one of the two examples was with that very amp so I think had I reached out and grabbed the stand instead I could have been the third.

But I wasn't and I'm not dead so why isn't that funny?
It IS funny to me but mention it around here and you get "OMG dude ....... are you alright? You could have been killed!! .... You need to be more careful .... and cover your head when it's cold and eat your turnips ....." Geez ..... it's like being around an elderly aunt.
Getting minor shocks just seems to freak the shit out of people whereas I think it's funny.

 

[minerman]

The G12-65s are like a Greenback on steroids. I love em. A Greenback is really loose, middy, and crunchy, and a 75 is really tight and controlled with enhanced lows and highs. The 65 falls somewhere right smack in the middle. It's not as "modern" as a 75, but it stays controlled better than a Greenback while having a kind of vintage-ish crunch to it. If you got your hands on one I don't think you'd be disappointed. You gotta find an old one though, or go with the WGS ET-65. Celestion's new reissue Heritage 65s don't sound the same as the classics and I've never heard anyone rant or rave about them like the originals. If you're talking strictly for recording, they all blend together well.

So, you're saying this: Celestion G1265 Vintage 12 Inch Guitar Speaker isn't as good as a vintage/old 65, right??? And, in your opinion, you'd buy a WGS ET-65 before you'd buy this from Celestion??? I'm trying to "round out" my speaker options, with the GB, V30, soon to be T-75, & one more (like this ^, maybe), I should be pretty set, speaker-wise....

I think you should also consider the Classic Lead. I've never tried one in person, but I've heard some killer clips from one of those speakers. It's generally regarded as a pretty "neutral" speaker.

This???: Celestion Classic Lead 80 Guitar Speaker

With Christmas just around the corner, I think I'm gonna buy myself some stuff for my setup this year, maybe another speaker (which will make 4 when I get the T-75 from you), & maybe an A/B/Y box like this: Radial Big Shot ABY True Bypass Switcher Pedal, so I could record both my amps from the same guitar signal....Just a thought, but being able to record both amps at the same time (not that I'd do it all the time) might work pretty good....Actually, I can do it now using my POD X3L's stereo out thing, but it sucks the tone quite a bit....

I've also got GAS for another guitar, I had an Epiphone Prophecy a few years ago, but didn't keep it long enough to really "get to know" it. We hit some hard times $$$-wise, so I sold it to pay bills....That one had Dirty Fingers p'ups in it, but the new ones have 490R/498T p'ups....I had the black cherry model, but the newer ones (online) don't look as nice as the one I had, especially the binding looks "cheaper" to me....

But, I've also been looking at some Charvel guitars too, for about the same price...Duncan p'ups, Floyd Rose, maple fretboard...I'm gonna hold off on another guitar until I get the p'up swap in my Strat worked out, then, maybe, I might buy another guitar....

Thanks for re-posting those clips so I didn't have to go searching through the thread dude....


Bob: Yeah, I know about people saying "OMG, you got shocked!!!", & it is kinda funny after the fact, but from what I can gather, more people are actually killed with 110v/household type power than any other....If I were to get zapped with the cable I handle at work, I probably wouldn't even know it to be honest....We also have some cables (main power coming into the mine) that have 7200 volts, but it's actually the safest cable in there, the slightest little thing will cause the power to trip/knock on that one...

Clips if/when you get time dude, but again, I'd like to hear the Ampeg myself....And, again, glad you like the new amp!!!!

 

[Greg_L]

So, you're saying this: Celestion G1265 Vintage 12 Inch Guitar Speaker isn't as good as a vintage/old 65, right??? And, in your opinion, you'd buy a WGS ET-65 before you'd buy this from Celestion???

Yes exactly. The new Celestion 65s don't compare, in my opinion, to the originals or the ET-65. I'd buy a WGS ET-65 before I'd buy the Heritage 65s. The ET65 when broken in is pretty similar to the original 65s IMO. WGS does a great job with their stuff. I'd rank em like this....1) original late 70s/early 80s G12-65, 2) WGS ET-65, 3) the new Heritage G12-65.

This???: Celestion Classic Lead 80 Guitar Speaker

Yes, that's the one. It's gonna be loud like a Vintage 30, but more tame in the mids and more neutral overall. I'm thinking about getting a few myself to go in the B with V30s.