The New Tone Thread

[minerman]

I'm sure they're awesome but I doubt they're really better than those classic Marshalls you're accumulating.

Exactly Bob, that's why I said I could get a real plexi, 800 or something for that much $$$....Plus, I'd have the real deal too, instead of a clone...which to me, would be better anyway....

So, the search continues...

Oh yeah, forgot to tell you guys, back in the summer when I was looking for an amp, I almost bought a JVM410 in the Marshall Forum classifieds...Turns out the amp had been modded by someone who didn't know what they were doing, & it was fucked up...Dodged a bullet on that one, I'd been one pissed of motherfucker if I'd spent $1000 on that amp & it turned up all fucked up...That's a big reason I'm not much into buying used gear, I know it saves $$$, but....Guitar Center is pretty cool though, you've got 30 days to return it if something like that happens...

 

[Greg_L]

You want the Satriani JVM. To me, that thing seems to be right up your alley.

 

[minerman]

Would it do vintage-ish tones dude??? I'm assuming it's a 4-channel like your JVM410, right???

Never really looked at that amp, gonna go check it out....

 

[Greg_L]

Would it do vintage-ish tones dude??? I'm assuming it's a 4-channel like your JVM410, right???

Never really looked at that amp, gonna go check it out....

The Satriani JVM has several differences from the standard JVM. It's a 4 channel, but 3 of the 4 channels are quite different.
The JS JVM Clean channel is designed after the Marshall 6100 clean channel. The standard JVM's clean channel is more vintage-ish.
The JS Crunch channel Red mode has a very Tube Screamed 800 kind of sound to it. Very 80s. The standard JVM's Crunch channel is more AC/DC-like.
OD1 on both amps is pretty much the same.
OD2 on the JS JVM is the same channel as OD1. OD2 on the standard JVM has a more modern sound with the mids shifted a little lower.
The JS JVM has 4 noise gates instead of the standard JVM's 4 reverbs.
The rest of the features are about the same.

 

[minerman]

Damn dude, that's a $2600 amp....but it's only $100 more than the standard JVM410....I know it's like 4 amps in one though, well, really, it's like a 12 channel amp, right??? Can you save all that shit with the footswitch, & instantly recall your own presets (IE: the bass/mid/treble/gain/vol for each different mode, in each different channel)???

The JS JVM Clean channel is designed after the Marshall 6100 clean channel. The standard JVM's clean channel is more vintage-ish.

Dunno if I'd like that or not to be honest, I'm still wanting something that can sound modern & vintage-ish in one box, if that's even possible...

The JS Crunch channel Red mode has a very Tube Screamed 800 kind of sound to it. Very 80s. The standard JVM's Crunch channel is more AC/DC-like.

Again, dunno if I'd want this or not, as I can get pretty 80's with my od pedals already....The AC/DC thing actually appeals more to me than the 80's thing, I can already get 80-ish with what I have right now...I'd say I could get closer to the AC/DC thing too (with the DSL), but it would take some tweaking/experimenting....

The JS JVM has 4 noise gates instead of the standard JVM's 4 reverbs.

I've read good things about the noise gates in this amp, & that would be great for me, especially with high-gain & recording...

The rest of the features are about the same.

Explain the loops these amps have dude, I know it's got 2, but what are the differences in 'em???

 

[Greg_L]

Damn dude, that's a $2600 amp....but it's only $100 more than the standard JVM410....I know it's like 4 amps in one though, well, really, it's like a 12 channel amp, right??? Can you save all that shit with the footswitch, & instantly recall your own presets (IE: the bass/mid/treble/gain/vol for each different mode, in each different channel)???

Yes, functionally the JS is the same as the standard JVM. The footswitch will save all of your presets, and you can also use a MIDI controller to save up like 120 presets. I've never experimented with this feature. I only use the footswitch at it's stock setting which is just cycling through the channels and modes, extra master volume, and reverb. But it can be assigned to do just about anything.

Dunno if I'd like that or not to be honest, I'm still wanting something that can sound modern & vintage-ish in one box, if that's even possible...

Lots of Marshalls claim to have that vintage tone, but really none of them do except for the actual vintage models and the vintage reissues. If you really want Plexi/Super Lead sound, you need to get an actual 1987/1959 circuit or a clone. The standard JVM is Plexi-ish on the clean channel, but mainly because it's clean channel is tone stack and then gain. It acts like a Plexi on that channel, but the sound isn't really that close. To me it's more of a Bluesbreaker Fender-ish kind of sound.

Again, dunno if I'd want this or not, as I can get pretty 80's with my od pedals already....The AC/DC thing actually appeals more to me than the 80's thing, I can already get 80-ish with what I have right now...I'd say I could get closer to the AC/DC thing too (with the DSL), but it would take some tweaking/experimenting....

I think either JVM would do AC/DC better than the DSL. The JVM OD1 channel in Orange mode with the gain very low sounds quite Super Lead-ish. The JS JVM's Crunch channel is pretty spectacular though. To me it's the only thing about the JS that's better than the standard JVM. If you get a chance, you should try it, or look for some decent reviews. It's really good. They should make an amp based just off that channel. Wait, they do, the AFD. It's about the same as the AFD.

I've read good things about the noise gates in this amp, & that would be great for me, especially with high-gain & recording...

I personally have no need for gates because I never use that much gain, but the JVM is a noisy amp when you're in the higher gain modes. The gates are very good in that regard.

Explain the loops these amps have dude, I know it's got 2, but what are the differences in 'em???

To this day I still don't quite understand how/why the fx loops are labeled and controlled the way they are. One is a standard serial/parallel effects loop. It's got send/return jacks and a mix blend knob. It also has a +4/-10 button for rack/pedals. Run a cable from the send to your pedals or processor and run it back in. Blend to taste with the knob. Pretty simple, works great. I hardly ever use it myself, but it's neat to have. I put my delay through the loop. The other loop is a power amp loop that has absolutely no use to me. I'm not even sure what it's supposed to do. I think it's for using the power section of the amp only. Like if you have a rack sim/processor, like an AxeFX, you can use it for your tone, and run it into the power amp of the JVM to amplify it through a cab. It bypasses the preamp section of the amp. I'm pretty sure that's what it's for. Fuck that shit. But I'm sure someone somewhere is doing it like that.

 

[minerman]

Thanks for the info dude, I'm gonna try & dig up as much as I can about the differences (other than what you've told me here) between these 2 amps....I wanted a JVM410 when I got the DSL100, but settled because of the price....But, I've wanted a JVM for years now, so I'm just gonna have to bite the bullet & get one...It'll take me a little time, because of the price, but I will get one eventually...

What I wanna do is about like you, have one of the Marshalls from each era, not just as a collection, but to use in my recordings, & possibly even in a band situation...I never thought I'd say this, but, I may end up playing in a band again before it's said & done...IMO, the JVM would be "the" amp to gig with, & I'm sure it's very versatile for recording too...

So, on the "list" for me (eventually) are:

Plexi, JCM800, JVM (4 channel), with a couple/few more 4x12's (V30 & Greenback...possibly even one with the 65's, more than likely the WGS clones...)...

Plus, there's a lot more shit I want too, so this is gonna take me a pretty long time to accomplish, but, I've got a pretty good start just in the last few months......

There are several guitars I'd like to have like an SG, a Tele (with humbuckers & coil taps...), and one guitar I'd love to have again is a Kramer Nightswan, I had one years ago & loved it, but sold it when I was going through some terrible shit...

Anyway, gotta get ready for work in a few minutes, the ISO cab hasn't arrived yet, so it'll probably be tomorrow, but that's ok, it'll be here, pics & clips to come when it does...

 

[Greg_L]

Dude don't buy a new JVM. That's just crazy. Get a used one. They're very well built and besides like the first two weeks of production, all of them have been very reliable. You can fetch em used for like 1100-1400 bucks. Maybe even less if you really look around. Just make sure it has the footswitch. Those are tough to find on their own.

 

[minerman]

Dude don't buy a new JVM. That's just crazy. Get a used one. They're very well built and besides like the first two weeks of production, all of them have been very reliable. You can fetch em used for like 1100-1400 bucks. Maybe even less if you really look around. Just make sure it has the footswitch. Those are tough to find on their own.

To be honest, I'm pretty wary of used gear man, especially an amp like that....I know it's crazy, but I am...I was about to buy this amp, but backed out at the last minute, bought the DSL100, & I'm so glad I did...Turns out it'd been modded by someone who didn't know what they were doing, & fucked the boards up...AFAIK, the boards had to be replaced, along with some other shit....I would've gone batshit crazy on that guy, probably would've ended up in jail...LOL...

But, I know Guitar Center has the 30 day return thing, so I'd feel better about it like that...Again, I almost pulled the trigger on that very amp...

I was looking at GC's used stuff just this morning, & there's quite a few of 'em...

 

[minerman]

Oh yeah, just checked the Fed-Ex tracking thing, & my ISO cab is in Knoxville, TN....That's about 3-4 hours away (straight driving), so it'll be here sometime tomorrow...I'm actually pretty excited about getting that thing...Now I'll find out how well my franken-ISO stands up against a commercially made one...LOL...As long as it's as quiet as what I've got now, I'll be happy...It'll look a hell of a lot better, & will be a hell of a lot easier to move around, the home-made ISO I have right now probably weighs 250 lbs just guessing....It took me & my big brother both to get it in the back of his truck,& it wasn't easy....Heavy as a motherfucker....LOL...

Gonna put the casters on it, & I'd planned on making a de-coupler to keep the vibrations down, but I'm just gonna stuff the bottom of it with Roxul (leave enough space so the speaker will be able to "breathe" a little..), & give it a whirl....Should be the perfect time tomorrow night to see just how quiet it's gonna be...

Pics & clips to come...

 

[Greg_L]

To be honest, I'm pretty wary of used gear man, especially an amp like that....I know it's crazy, but I am...I was about to buy this amp, but backed out at the last minute, bought the DSL100, & I'm so glad I did...Turns out it'd been modded by someone who didn't know what they were doing, & fucked the boards up...AFAIK, the boards had to be replaced, along with some other shit....I would've gone batshit crazy on that guy, probably would've ended up in jail...LOL...

But, I know Guitar Center has the 30 day return thing, so I'd feel better about it like that...Again, I almost pulled the trigger on that very amp...

I was looking at GC's used stuff just this morning, & there's quite a few of 'em...

There are people that mod their JVM, but honestly, the overwhelming majority of people would never crack one open. And when you do open one up, it's pretty much like reading chinese. In my big ol city, I see them used all the time. I've never seen one modded. Guitar Center's used online store makes it foolproof. Mine was about $1100 if I remember right, and it's literally spotless. Still had the factory stickers on it. 10/10. IMO, most JVM's are turned in for two reasons 1) People need the money, 2) it's just too much amp. Think about dude, you could potentially save over a thousand bucks! A perfect JVM410 for half price. When I got mine, I was actually looking for a YJM100, but The JVM was my #2. The price was just too good to pass up, and with GC used there is no risk.

 

[minerman]

Thanks again dude...
The GC used gear thing is great man, & yeah it would save me a lot of $$$...I saw about 15 JVM's there last night, one of 'em was in Dallas....You're in Houston (or close) right?? Just wondering...Where I live in the boonies, the closest GC is in Knoxville, which is about 4 hours away, I drove down there a couple years ago & traded some stuff in on my OrangePPC112....

Really, it wouldn't take me that long to save up for a used JVM dude, I've actually got the biggest part of it right now...If I hadn't bought the ISO cab, I'd have the $$$ right now, but that's something I've wanted for years now, & I'm tired of settling for what I can get & making a compromise...I bust my ass day in & day out, so from now on, I'm gonna have what the fuck I want...The ex made shit a lot harder than it ever had to be for me dude, I dunno if you realize that or not, but while I was with her, I really didn't have 2 pennies to rub together, because she was out spending it faster than I could make it (and spending in on another man too....she finally admitted all this shit....after the papers were signed of course...dirty bitch...)..In short, I'll probably have the $$$ either this week or next, just depends on what all I've gotta pay out this week...

So, the ISO cab is gonna be here today, & I should have enough for a used JVM in the next couple weeks....there's 2 things crossed off "the list"....

 

[minerman]

Ok guys, the Randall ISO cab arrived today (about an hour after I left for work...of course...), & I've tried it out with the DSL100....So far, I've got mixed feelings about it, as it's about as quiet as the one I built, but, AFAIK, there's nothing inside it to keep any noise down, other than some cheap foam in the top of the lid...It's not bad, but you can definitely still hear the amp in the room (which I knew this before I even bought it...used the DSL100 in the 100w mode, volume on about 3-4...and again, you can still hear it in the room, but I'm using a 100w amp too...LOL..)...But I will say it cuts the noise about 70-80%...Open the lid & it'll rip your head off using the DSL100....

So the "to do" list for the ISO cab is:
Install Roxul panels in the bottom & possibly in the lid to try to quieten it down a little more, & help reduce the standing waves....
Replace the shitty mic stand that doesn't move with my little adjustable boom arm...
Put the casters from the old, home-made ISO onto this thing so I can roll it around if I want/need...
And maybe later on I'll install another mic cable & jack so I can use 2 mics, maybe....

I'll take some pics in a little while, & probably record & post some clips...

It does seem well built, is a hell of a lot smaller & lighter than my home-made one....so far I'm pretty happy with it as far as the noise level...I'll find out whether I really like it or not when I record a couple/few tracks in a little while...

I really fuckin' dread rolling the big home-made ISO outta here to be honest, that fuckin' thing probably weighs 300 lbs, maybe more...It was all me & my brother could do just to lift it into his truck a few months ago, & neither of us are skinny little wimps...I'm probably gonna salvage what I can from this thing, & have a fuckin' bonfire, might even roast some marshmallows.....





Been talking with the guy from GR Amps, & he's quoted me some prices on a couple/few of his amps....I can have either a plexi-type preamp or a JCM800 type-preamp, & I'm not sure which I'd like better...I've always wanted a plexi, & I could have either a 10w, 18w, or 36w plexi clone...But, on the other hand, the 800-style would have more pre-amp gain, so I'm really not sure which I'd pick...There's a few different choices for the power tube section too...I also asked him about an fx loop, as transparent as possible (doesn't kill the tone of the amp), & he quoted me a Grainger loop for an extra $120...The prices he quoted me are a little high, but these amps are all hand-built, & mine (if I decide to get one) would be a custom amp, built just for me...

RS Model 36w:

4 x 6V6 old stock Power Tubes
12AX7 old stock Pre-amp Tubes
5V4 Tube amp rectified
ClassicTone Power transformer
MPS 42va output transformer
4,8, or 16 ohm output jacks
Old stock Mullard/ Philips Mustard caps
Draloric carbon film resistors

Choose between:
TMB JCM800 voiced preamp
1959SLP voiced “59” preamp



18w series:


NJ Model:
6V6 old stock Power Tubes
12AX7 old stock Pre-amp Tubes
5V4 Tube amp rectified
ClassicTone Power transformer
MPS 42va output transformer
4,8, or 16 ohm output jacks
Old stock Mullard/ Philips Mustard caps
Draloric carbon film resistors

Choose between:
TMB JCM800 voiced preamp
1959SLP voiced “59” preamp


NK Model:
EL84 old stock Power tubes
12AX7 old stock Pre-amp Tubes
EZ81 Tube amp Rectified
ClassicTone Power transformer
MPS 42va output transformer
4,8, or 16 ohm output jacks
Old stock Mullard/ Philips Mustard caps
Draloric carbon film resistors


Choose between:
TMB JCM800 voiced preamp
1959SLP voiced “59” preamp

TSP Model:
EL34 new TAD Power Tubes
12AX7 old stock Pre-amp Tubes
5AR4 Tube amp rectified
MPS Power transformer
MPS output transformer
4,8, or 16 ohm output jacks
Old stock Mullard/ Philips Mustard caps
Draloric carbon film resistors

*TSP is only available with Plexi voiced preamp

10w Series:

2 x EL90 old stock Power Tubes
12AX7 old stock Pre-amp Tubes
5Y3 Tube amp rectified
MPS power transformer
MPS output transformer
4,8, or 16 ohm output jacks
Old stock Mullard/ Philips Mustard caps
Draloric carbon film resistors


Choose between:
TMB JCM800 voiced preamp
1959SLP voiced “59” preamp

The prices including shipping he quoted me (with an fx loop, which is an extra $120...) are:

36w: $1300
18w: $1200
10w: $1100

I'm still thinking about it, but it would be cool to have him build an amp for me, but on the other hand, that's a lot of $$$ for a low-watt amp....

I know I can get a used JVM410, or even a real used Plexi for that much $$$, so I'm still debating & thinking on it...

Let me know what you guys think about the specs & prices on these amps....A few guys in the Marshall forum swear they're bad-ass amps, & a couple of 'em I'd trust on shit like this, but the Marshall forum ain't home to me like this place has become, so lemme know...

 

[Greg_L]

If it were me I'd make me a simple pro/con list. A few of the things I'd consider...

Pros:
Hand built - although this is only as good as the hand building it.
Low watt - although these will still be loud
Personalized/customizable
Unique
Good looks
High quality transformers

Cons:
Price
It's not the real thing no matter how hard it tries
Low watt - no headroom
Only one version has EL34s and it only comes "Plexi voiced"
Tube rectified - most of the classic Marshall sound you're after is SS/diode rectified
All those "vintage" spec caps, resistors, and NOS tubes are meaningless cork-sniffery

Also keep in mind that you can't get a used Plexi for those prices. Not a real one anyway. Not a clean model that hasn't been molested. You can get a reissue, like mine, but it's not an *actual* late 60s Plexi. The reissue is called a Plexi, and looks like a Plexi, and acts like a Plexi, but it's designed and sounds like the metal face 1959 Super Leads - which is better to me. It's actually pretty much dead-nuts true to the 70s metal face JMP Super Leads. Brighter, more aggressive, more gain. A real authentic 66-69 Plexi is warmer, rounder than the metal faced versions or reissues, and they simply can't be had for ~$1100. "Plexi" is just a nickname for the late 60s plexiglass faced 4-input non-master volume 1987/1959 Lead/Super Lead circuit.

So say you want the real thing and get a Plexi/JCM 800 or reissue variant. A Super Lead 1959/1987 can't not be loud as fuck without a master vol mod or attenuator. They're pretty much full power and angry as soon as you flip them on. A 1959 circuit could potentially and literally blow a single speaker in an iso cab to pieces. Lol. The 800 is more forgiving with it's master volume, but you don't get to the magic of those amps until the master vol is somewhere past 5 and by then it too is starting to blow the house apart. It's not uncommon for people to use attenuators with 800s as well even though they have a master volume. I can only suspect that trying to capture either amp's magic while also trying to contain either one of them with a single speaker iso cab could be trouble without an attenuator. Honestly, I'm not trying to talk you in or out of anything, but you know I have these amps and this is how they act. I really never even flip them on until it's go time. They're just too loud to fool around with unless you're in a situation where loudness doesn't matter. Watt-for-watt, by the simple nature of their design, I think a 1959 or 2203 is gonna seem way louder than your DSL. Like the JVM, a DSL is more "refined".

In my humble opinion, with you still having to use an iso cab, I'd say stick with the DSL, and if your GAS dictates you get another amp, the JVM is a better option and more versatile IMO for you than a 1959, 2203, or overpriced low watt clone.

 

[minerman]

I'm not trying to talk you in or out of anything, but you know I have these amps and this is how they act. I really never even flip them on until it's go time. They're just too loud to fool around with unless you're in a situation where loudness doesn't matter.

Thanks Greg....This is what I was really wanting to hear, as you're one of the guys I'd listen about this shit, but I still have a couple/few questions...

Do you think one of the low-watt clones would capture the vibe/sound of say, a Plexi, Super Lead, or an 800??? And, I know these low watt clones are still gonna be loud, but they're not going to be as loud as a 50 or 100 watter....

And right now, there are times when loudness doesn't matter, but for the most part it does...But, this isn't permanent, I'll be leaving here again within the next year or so, & hopefully then, the loudnes thing won't matter at all...

In my humble opinion, with you still having to use an iso cab, I'd say stick with the DSL, and if your GAS dictates you get another amp, the JVM is a better option and more versatile IMO for you than a 1959, 2203, or overpriced low watt clone.

Cool man, I'm just gonna keep saving up, & should have enough to buy a used JVM in the next week or two...I still may wait though, because I've got the DSL, & IMO, it does a great job with my tones, for now it's really all the amp I need, these others are things I've been wanting....

Been fucking with the new ISO cab this morning, & getting the old behemoth out of the house, so I've ran outta time again, but I'll post some clips tonight when I get in....Here's a few pics:

Front:


Rear/jack plates:


Speaker/mic stand:


Lid w/eggcrate foam:


V30:


Roxul added to the inside bottom:


Roxul added to the lid:


I've still got some things left to do to it like put the wheels on it, & might add another jack plate for 2 mics later on....

Gotta run, time for work....

 

[Lt. Bob]

that roxul really isn't gonna make it quieter .... the only thing that does that is mass ..... more wood or airspaces ..... it will help reduce standing waves and will affect the sound inside the cab but it's not really gonna make it any quieter outside the cab.

 

[Greg_L]

Thanks Greg....This is what I was really wanting to hear, as you're one of the guys I'd listen about this shit, but I still have a couple/few questions...

Do you think one of the low-watt clones would capture the vibe/sound of say, a Plexi, Super Lead, or an 800??? And, I know these low watt clones are still gonna be loud, but they're not going to be as loud as a 50 or 100 watter....

I've never actually put my hands on one of those GR amps. I've only seen and heard of them online. I'd guess they do okay, they look beautiful and appear to be very thoughtfully assembled, but I bet they still don't capture the spirit of the real Marshalls they're trying to copy. Why? Power. Marshall themselves can't make a good clone in a low watt version, so I don't have much faith in anyone else doing it either. The Marshall sound is about volume. The classic Marshalls are usually petty bright and tight and have good headroom. They're very dynamic and sensitive. Even at massive volumes, pick light and they're really jangly and clean, hit it hard an unleash the fury. Most low watt clones that I've ever messed with are usually the opposite of all that. I think low watt amps can be great when they are what they are and don't try to be anything else. When they try to be fire breathers, that's when they lose IMO.

To me, the Ceriatone low watt Marshall clones are really good and affordable. I'd consider one of those myself if I was in the market for a low watt Marshall clone. The Metro stuff is very good but very expensive. Demeter is good. But maybe those GR amps are good too. I just haven't heard them and I'm skeptical because so many others fail.

As for your iso cab.....I think Boob is right. All that stuffing probably won't help much. can you put that thing in a closet or interior room? A bathroom even? It's not like it matters to the recorded sound because the mic is inside the box anyway. Sealing it off in another room that doesn't leak to the outside would help a lot with cutting the sound that bleeds to the outer world.

 

[minerman]

Thanks guys...Had to work late tonight, & have a doctor's appointment in the morning, so this'll be pretty short...I forgot about seeing the doc tomorrow, so no toans tonight, maybe tomorrow before I go to work, depends on how long it takes to see the doc....

I know the Roxul won't help kill the noise much, maybe a little, but it should help the recorded sound to be a little better...We'll see I suppose...

I've asked a bunch of different people about GR's amps, but haven't heard back from 'em yet...There are 3 that I value their opinions pretty much like yours Greg...So, gonna wait & see what these guys tell me....

I'm gonna look into Ceriatone too, & see what they've got...I dunno...I might just buy a used JVM410, & say fuck it too....

Gotta hit the sack guys...

 

[Greg_L]

The Ceriatone stuff seems to be really cool IMO. Very good customer service too from what I can gather.....and if it matters, they look pretty much just like classic Marshalls. I've heard a few Ceriatone models, and they are bad ass. I know that for fact. Like old school Marshalls, they're not high gain amps though. You'll need your pedals to drive them into buttrock territory. But they sound so nice you may not even want to. I know for me, my own tastes have shifted away from gain now that I'm sitting on a pile of nice stuff. That modded 50w 800 I used to use and thought was the holy grail, I listen to those tracks now and want to kill myself.

 

[minerman]

Thanks dude,
I've been emailing back/forth with Terry@ GR Amps & trying to figure out what options I've got...If I do decide to go this route it'll be a custom amp built to sound the way I want....

He told me I can have extra gain added like a #34 SIR, #36 AFD, or a full blown Jose mod that uses diode clipping....

I also heard back from the guys I mentioned & all of 'em said his amps are superb...the 36w all of 'em tried (the same amp) is supposed to be pretty much aas loud as a 50w Marshall & they all said it sounds great....they all posted clips & reviews...

So I my end up getting a custom amp built before it's over.....I can always get a JVM or OR15 later on too...

Dunno if I'll be able to do any tones yoday or not I'm sitting at the doctor's office posting this from my phone....lol