The New Tone Thread
- Thread starter Telegram Sam
- Start date
minerman
Tonetard
Well dude, that's a problem too....I really can't decide....hahaha!!! Of course, I've been wanting something to cop some early VH tones (or close), so probably a modded Super Lead....But, again, I can't decide...LOL....
that's why you have to get one of each ..... how else can you decide?
Exactly dude, & I will eventually have all of the amps, cabs, guitars, etc that I want...It'll be a never-ending thing, but it's ok, I work really hard for what I get, so I'm gonna have what I want.....
So, it looks like I'm gonna go with one of the GR Amps, but it's still not 100%....I'mgonna keep talking with Terry to find out what all he can do to help me find "my" amp....
And again, the guys I've talked to at the Marshall forum swear his stuff is great...so...
I think it'd be really cool to have my own custom amp though, pretty excited to be honest...
.
minerman
Tonetard
Ok guys, just a quick-n-dirty test to try this new ISO cab out...Nothing special (as usual...) just fuckin' around...I had the volume on the guitar rolled off at the beginning, & turned it up in about 4 different "stages", again, just a quick-n-dirty test to see what this thing will acutally do...
Ibanez > interface > re-amp box > DSL100 > ISO cab V30 > '57
100w mode
Resonance: 10
Presence: 9
Bass: 7
Mid: 5
Treble: 4
Red OD 1
Gain: 2-3
Volume: 5
ISO cab test 1
The re-amp box does add some hiss to the signal, not sure why, maybe it's the cable coming from the amp, I dunno, I'll try to get that sorted tonight, but so far, the tone sounds ok to me, of course, what really matters is how it sounds in a mix....
Lemme know what you guys think, gotta head out the door for work....
Ibanez > interface > re-amp box > DSL100 > ISO cab V30 > '57
100w mode
Resonance: 10
Presence: 9
Bass: 7
Mid: 5
Treble: 4
Red OD 1
Gain: 2-3
Volume: 5
ISO cab test 1
The re-amp box does add some hiss to the signal, not sure why, maybe it's the cable coming from the amp, I dunno, I'll try to get that sorted tonight, but so far, the tone sounds ok to me, of course, what really matters is how it sounds in a mix....
Lemme know what you guys think, gotta head out the door for work....
Haha! Yes get them all. Since finally getting the Plexi RI and then the JCM 800 I honestly haven't even thought of another amp. My amp GAS fire has been extinguished.that's why you have to get one of each ..... how else can you decide?
Well it's easy then - Super Lead. Eddie Van Halen, Slash, Angus & Malcolm, Randy Rhoads, and tons more, all of their names became known with the Super Lead in it's various forms. Slash later became known for 800s and his signature Jubilees, but AFD was done with a modded 1959 Super Lead (Tremolo) amp. The 2203/2204 is not *that* sound. It's a great sound, but it's not those guys' kind of sound.
The good thing is all the classic Marshall circuits and "secret" mods have been well figured out by now. If this GR guy is worth a damn, and just from the pics of his amps he probably is, he should be able to get you something that suits the sound you want. So what's his usual turnaround time? Does he have amps sitting around ready to go, or will he have to build you one from scratch?
Sounds good, nice and clear, but there does seem to be a little bit of a boomy boxy quality to it. That may be because you have the resonance turned all the way up. I'm not blaming the box. But it could be adding to it. There also sounds like there's a faint rattle in the clip. Is everything tightened down properly?
Just for reference, that kind of tone is about what both the JVM's OD1 and OD2 Orange mode sounds like.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
exactly right man ........ you work your ass off doing that mining shit ...... I wouldn't last 30 minutes ...... you deserve to treat yourself to whatever you want.
minerman
Tonetard
Greg: Thanks for the listen & comment dude....I'm sure there's a little rattle somewhere, I haven't went over the ISO cab good yet, haven't had time...When I crank the DSL100, it does rattle like crazy, so I'm gonna have to figure out how to stop it...
On GR's amps, IIRC, about 2-3 weeks build time...I'm assuming he'll build my amp from scratch, but not sure...I've still gotta come up with the rest of the $$$, & make sure about the options...So, I'm gonna probably go with a 10w Super Lead clone...Pretty excited about it to be honest dude, it should have "that" sound I've been after all this time, at a reasonable volume....I've gotta e-mail him back tonight, & I may just call him this weekend...
Thanks again for the listen, to be honest, I just slapped the mic on the speaker, twisted some knobs, & hit record...I think with some work (getting rid of the rattles, maybe 2 mics, etc), I can get some pretty useable tones outta this thing...
Cool on the comparison to the JVM...Lemme get this straight though, Orange mode is the "middle" gain level, right??? Green is low, Orange is middle, & Red is high, right???? Damn dude, you're fuckin' killin' me...LOL...A few more months maybe, & I'll have a JVM too, there's all kinds of 'em used on Guitar Center's site...
Bob: Thanks man, I do work hard...Plus it's dangerous as fuck, & really bad for my health (dust..)...Thanks again, it'll take me a little while, but I will have all those amps, plus more shit I've been wanting.....
Just like old times again, ain't it???
On GR's amps, IIRC, about 2-3 weeks build time...I'm assuming he'll build my amp from scratch, but not sure...I've still gotta come up with the rest of the $$$, & make sure about the options...So, I'm gonna probably go with a 10w Super Lead clone...Pretty excited about it to be honest dude, it should have "that" sound I've been after all this time, at a reasonable volume....I've gotta e-mail him back tonight, & I may just call him this weekend...
Thanks again for the listen, to be honest, I just slapped the mic on the speaker, twisted some knobs, & hit record...I think with some work (getting rid of the rattles, maybe 2 mics, etc), I can get some pretty useable tones outta this thing...
Cool on the comparison to the JVM...Lemme get this straight though, Orange mode is the "middle" gain level, right??? Green is low, Orange is middle, & Red is high, right???? Damn dude, you're fuckin' killin' me...LOL...A few more months maybe, & I'll have a JVM too, there's all kinds of 'em used on Guitar Center's site...
Bob: Thanks man, I do work hard...Plus it's dangerous as fuck, & really bad for my health (dust..)...Thanks again, it'll take me a little while, but I will have all those amps, plus more shit I've been wanting.....
Just like old times again, ain't it???
Cool dude. Why the 10w though? I would think the 18w with EL84 or EL34 power tubes would be closer, and not significantly louder. But it's your call man. I hope it sounds awesome. Ask him if a switchable tube/SS rectifier is an option. I've played a few amps with a switchable rectifier and I always tend to like the SS option better. The sag in a tube rectifier doesn't jive with me. The SS version has better attack and bite. But that's just my opinion. It would be a cool option to have though. It does change the behavior of the amp. I'm excited to hear it. I've noticed these amps before and always though they looked very nice. The wiring is so clean and the attention to detail is awesome. I assume it can't not sound good.
Yeah each channel (Clean, Crunch, OD1, OD2) has 3 modes - Green, Orange, and Red. They go up in gain. The OD1 and OD2 channels are similar, but OD2 has a more modern kind of mid voicing. I actually really like OD2, but I generally only use it with my Hallmark Mosrite. Anyway, both OD1 and OD2 in Green mode start out similar to a JCM 800 that's pretty angry. Kick them into Orange mode and the gain and tightness ramps way up. The jump from Green to Orange on the OD channels is pretty significant. More than on the other channels. The OD channels in Orange mode has way more gain than any classic Marshall, but the Orange mode does have a thick, cranked Super Lead general kind of feel and tone to it. OD 1/2 Red mode is just unusable to me. Way too much gain.
For me, Crunch Orange, Crunch Red, and OD1 Green are my general go-to channels/modes with the JVM. They're the most 2203/2204-ish IMO. Crunch Orange sounds shockingly similar to my actual 2204.
Crunch Red and OD1 Green are pretty similar, with Crunch Red being a little fatter. Both sound fairly close to a roaring 2203.
OD1 Green with the gain around 4 is just about perfect from this amp for me.
I suspect you would love the shit out of OD1/OD2 Orange with the gain low to moderate.
minerman
Tonetard
Thanks Greg...
I was thinking the 10w amp would give me that cranked tube sound at a little lower volume, I know it wouldn't be much difference between the 10w & 18w volume-wise though...I'm guessing either of 'em would probably be just a little louder than the Tweaker I have, which is 15w....Plus, I've saw bunches of 18w amps, & have never saw a 10w, so I'm figuring the 10w, with the mods/custom things I want in it would make it a unique amp....
I've e-mailed him again about the ss/tube rectifier thing, & probably won't hear back from him until I get in from work...Plus, I'm still talking with him about the tones I'm after...He did recomment the '59 pre-amp for the tones I mentioned last (VH, Angus, etc), but, I still may need a little more gain to possibly get into Jerry Cantrell/Alice In Chains type stuff too, so, it'll be back/forth via e-mail for a little while....
He quoted me a price on this amp, including the fx loop & shipping....$1200:
I know this & the other clips were recorded with an iPhone, but some of the other clips on his site were recorded with a proper mic & interface...
On the JVM, I'm sure I'd like it all dude, but that one's gonna have to wait a little while, as I am gonna pull the trigger on one of these GR amps in the next couple/few weeks...
I'm gonna do a little vid this morning too, showing how much the Randall ISO cab cuts the noise level in the room...I'll probably just do it with my cell phone though, & not worry about the quality of the tone, just showing the noise reduction....
I was thinking the 10w amp would give me that cranked tube sound at a little lower volume, I know it wouldn't be much difference between the 10w & 18w volume-wise though...I'm guessing either of 'em would probably be just a little louder than the Tweaker I have, which is 15w....Plus, I've saw bunches of 18w amps, & have never saw a 10w, so I'm figuring the 10w, with the mods/custom things I want in it would make it a unique amp....
I've e-mailed him again about the ss/tube rectifier thing, & probably won't hear back from him until I get in from work...Plus, I'm still talking with him about the tones I'm after...He did recomment the '59 pre-amp for the tones I mentioned last (VH, Angus, etc), but, I still may need a little more gain to possibly get into Jerry Cantrell/Alice In Chains type stuff too, so, it'll be back/forth via e-mail for a little while....
He quoted me a price on this amp, including the fx loop & shipping....$1200:
I know this & the other clips were recorded with an iPhone, but some of the other clips on his site were recorded with a proper mic & interface...
On the JVM, I'm sure I'd like it all dude, but that one's gonna have to wait a little while, as I am gonna pull the trigger on one of these GR amps in the next couple/few weeks...
I'm gonna do a little vid this morning too, showing how much the Randall ISO cab cuts the noise level in the room...I'll probably just do it with my cell phone though, & not worry about the quality of the tone, just showing the noise reduction....
minerman
Tonetard
Here's a short shitty clip of me re-amping a di from yesterday to show how much the ISO cab cuts the noise in the room...Just guessing, the ISO cab cuts the noise about 70-80%, but it's not silent & never will be...That's ok though, even using the DSL100 on 1-2 on the volume dial is still pretty useable, & IMO much, much better than an ampsim....
I went over all the screws to make sure they're tight, but I'm still getting a little rattling at times, I'm guessing I always will, unless I do some mods to the cab (like putting extra latches on the sides of the lid to tighten it down a little more, putting some weatherstripping on where the lid closes down/makes contact with the bottom part of the cab), but all in all, I'm pretty happy with it, it does what it's supposed to, is much smaller/easier to move around than the home-made one I had, & looks a hell of a lot better than the one I made....
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Randall ISO cab noise test
I went over all the screws to make sure they're tight, but I'm still getting a little rattling at times, I'm guessing I always will, unless I do some mods to the cab (like putting extra latches on the sides of the lid to tighten it down a little more, putting some weatherstripping on where the lid closes down/makes contact with the bottom part of the cab), but all in all, I'm pretty happy with it, it does what it's supposed to, is much smaller/easier to move around than the home-made one I had, & looks a hell of a lot better than the one I made....
.Randall ISO cab noise test
minerman
Tonetard
Ok, here's a clip with the new ISO cab...Nothing special as usual, just trying out my new gear...Used the Bogner Red pedal into the DSL-1H...I think it sounds pretty good myself, but lacks the "oomph" & punch the 100w DSL has...
Ibanez > interface > re-amp box > Bogner Red > DSL-1H > V30 > '57
DSL-1H:
1w mode
Bass: 10
Mid: 6
Treble: 10
Green channel
Vol: 6
Gain: 5
Bogner Red:
Variac: Off
Mode: Tight
Pre-eq: Neutral
Structure: 101
Vol: 5
Treble: 4-5
Mid: 5-6
Bass: 7-8
Gain: 2-3
Bogner Red > DSL-1H > V30
Lemme know what you guys think, off to work I go...
Ibanez > interface > re-amp box > Bogner Red > DSL-1H > V30 > '57
DSL-1H:
1w mode
Bass: 10
Mid: 6
Treble: 10
Green channel
Vol: 6
Gain: 5
Bogner Red:
Variac: Off
Mode: Tight
Pre-eq: Neutral
Structure: 101
Vol: 5
Treble: 4-5
Mid: 5-6
Bass: 7-8
Gain: 2-3
Bogner Red > DSL-1H > V30
Lemme know what you guys think, off to work I go...
Lol. "Yes, I am a hillbilly". I've never heard of a real hillbilly ordering custom hand-built amps, but you certainly talk like one.Here's a short shitty clip of me re-amping a di from yesterday to show how much the ISO cab cuts the noise in the room...Just guessing, the ISO cab cuts the noise about 70-80%, but it's not silent & never will be...That's ok though, even using the DSL100 on 1-2 on the volume dial is still pretty useable, & IMO much, much better than an ampsim....
I went over all the screws to make sure they're tight, but I'm still getting a little rattling at times, I'm guessing I always will, unless I do some mods to the cab (like putting extra latches on the sides of the lid to tighten it down a little more, putting some weatherstripping on where the lid closes down/makes contact with the bottom part of the cab), but all in all, I'm pretty happy with it, it does what it's supposed to, is much smaller/easier to move around than the home-made one I had, & looks a hell of a lot better than the one I made....
Randall ISO cab noise test
So from that clip, it seems like the the iso box takes the sound down to about the same that your speaking level was. If that's true, you had a 100w amp on "5" and it was as loud in the room as a talking voice? That's pretty damn impressive.
Yeah it's not bad, but it definitely doesn't have the chunk and punch that your more recent 100H clips have had. Sounds a little scratchy.
minerman
Tonetard
Hahahaha.....I thought you'd get a kick out of me saying that man, but yeah, I'm a hillbilly...Lol. "Yes, I am a hillbilly". I've never heard of a real hillbilly ordering custom hand-built amps, but you certainly talk like one.
Well, it's a little louder than a talking voice, as the low end rumble carries through the house (the other ISO did this too, I'd say all of 'em do..), but it works pretty damn good IMO man, I had a video I'd shot with my phone, but you really couldn't tell much difference in the loudness...So, I figured fuck it, just throw a mic in the room & do it that way...
I'm pretty happy with the Randall ISO cab, I don't think there's one anywhere that will be totally silent...the things I like best about it are:
1) It's so much easier to move the mic, change the speaker or whatever with this one. The giant home-made one had 2 lids, & it was so deep/tall, it was a pain in the ass to adjust the mic, change the speaker, etc...
2) It looks so much better & takes up less than half the space than the one I made
3) It weighs less than half as much as the one I built...Man I'd say that thing weighed 300 lbs...LOL
Yeah, the little DSL does sound good, but it ain't got the balls the big 100 watter has....The tone is very similar, but it just doesn't have the power to push the speaker like it needs to be...
On the scratchy thing, the treble knob on the Bogner pedal is really sensitive to adjustments, & has a sweet spot, I just didn't have time to dial it in yesterday...Good pedal though, expensive, but good...
Terry e-mailed me back & told me one thing we hadn't talked about was a RR style amp....Here's his e-mail:
James, The JK59 in the sound clips that I sent to you by e-mail is my version of a Superlead, except that instead of a 4 hole input system, it's internally jumpered, as if you had the short external jumper plugged into the jacks. It has similar values, except the second triode is biased hotter, and the tone frequency is adjusted to help eliminate bass flabbiness. I can build that exact same thing in a 4 holer for those who prefer to have more options. One caveat that you had briefly touched on, but we haven't talked about at all is a RR model. The evolution of the Marshall started with the JTM45, went to the 1959 then 1959SLP, hit a RR version, then JCM800. The JTM45 had a shared cathode setup on the first preamp tube. The 1959 split the cathode with separate values to each triode and the blocking caps to the power tubes were the same value as the JTM45. The Superlead changed the blocking cap values to the power tubes (brighter) and changed one of the blocking caps to triode #2 making it brighter. The RR version was the morph between a 1959 and a JCM800. It was a 4 holer, but looking at both high signals, input #1 high/lo is a version of the 1959, except it's one channel only like the high signal only of a 1959. The input #2 high/lo is a cascaded preamp version where the triodes cascade into each other. I'm not sure if input #1 would be enough of a blend to get you EVH tones, but input #2 would be a closer take of the 80's stuff than a straight Plexi. It's kind of tweener style. I haven't built a RR with any of my power tubes, but I have an a 10W 4 holer on the bench that I have half finished that I could easily at this time try a RR version, and could see how that sounds, if you'd want to wait a week or two to hear it. Just a thought. Terry
So, I'm still debating on what I want him to do...I mean the super lead is what I want, & I want it hot-rodded/modded, but this sounds interesting too...The only thing that's got me held back right now (other than I still have to come up with just a little less than half the $$$...another week or two & I'll have it) are his clips....They're all recorded with an iPhone so I really can't tell much about 'em...He did say his buddy who plays on these clips is fixing a new studio space up, & will be able to record/post proper clips before too long...
So if I understand him correctly, he could build me a 4-hole, Randy Rhoads style amp, with basically 2 channels, one of 'em having more gain than the other...That sounds about like what I'm after, & would be a little more flexible than having a single channel amp (which would be ok, but of course, I want it to be versatile too)...What are your thoughts on this man, because I really want this thing to kick-ass & I value your opinion on this stuff a lot....Lemme know what you think...
Of course, I'm in no hurry on this amp, yes I'd like to have it yesterday, but I wanna make sure that it's what I want, because of the price....On the up side, everyone I've talked to about Terry has said he's a stand-up guy, & will make sure you're totally happy with what you buy from him, matter of fact, several guys have told me this without me even asking....
Lol. Fuck. That's too much shit to process. Look, think about what those guys actually used - simple basic common every day Marshalls and they made the magic happen with their hands and a few simple pedals. Eddie supposedly jacked his shit with a variac and used a junky guitar with broken pickup. Randy Rhoads used metal face Super Leads and slammed em with an MXR overdrive pedal. (I personally don't get off on Randy Rhoads' sound). I really doubt either guy knew or cared anything about caps and cathodes and shit like that. So, IMO, forget Randy and Eddie and all those guys and just have this guy build you a Super Lead clone with a built-in extra boost option. If he can make it a real 4 input, do it. You want to jump the channels yourself. You don't want that built in to the amp. I wouldn't go for any special tricks or voicing. I'd suggest you have him build an exact clone of a typical 70s Super Lead, without the earth shattering volume, and have him include an extra gain stage. That should be simple enough.
Besides, look at Randy. His channels are not jumped.
Eddie's old live rig, no channel jumping. He's got em daisy-chained together, but no channel jumping. Hi input 1. The sound of rock and roll.
Besides, look at Randy. His channels are not jumped.
Eddie's old live rig, no channel jumping. He's got em daisy-chained together, but no channel jumping. Hi input 1. The sound of rock and roll.
minerman
Tonetard
Now you see why it's so fucking confusing for me, right??? LOL...Obviously the guy knows the workings of an amp, but I don't.....and to be honest, I really don't give a fuck...plug in, dial in my sound & forget it...
This pretty much sums it up dude, & is pretty much what I'm gonna do...A 4-hole, Super Lead clone, with an added gain stage, in a low-watt package, so I can get the cranked tube tone without blowing the windows out of the house...It'd be great if I could get "that" sound without a pedal, but, it's ok if I have to use a boost to get there...I've got a few different od pedals now, so really, that's a non-issue...
Simple is better for me too man, I'm really not into that cork-sniffing shit either, IMO it really doesn't make that much of a difference in the sound....Like when I got into the tube rolling thing, the difference was so minor nobody would have known (or given a fuck...LOL) with the sounds in a mix anyway...
Gonna go e-mail him back, tell him what I want, then go to the pharmacy & pick up my monthly supply of drugs....LOL...
Be back in a couple of hours...
If it were me, my main concern is, like with any other low watt amp, you're again trying to use a little amp to achieve a sound that is the result of massive power and volume. A little amp trying to sound like one of the wildest craziest stupidly loud amps made. Is it possible? I don't know. I've never heard a little amp sound like a big amp. Look at your DSL-1 vs DSL-100. Same basic voicing right? Same preamp section. But the 100w version sounds way bigger, fuller, punchier, etc. My worry is that it won't deliver the goods, and you'll still be wanting the real deal. I'm sure it will be a cool amp, but will it really deliver the sound and feel of an actual Super Lead 1959 circuit? That's a tall order.