Tascam M520 Story...

[RRuskin]

I generally prefer the idea of using the PGM BUSS OUTs to interface to the 'puter, which limits you to 8-simul, but that's usually enough for a midsized arrangement. Anything over what fits on 8-buss could be hooked by Direct-Outs.

That's my preference. YMMV.

The main reason to use a buss out is for combining 2 or more signals to 1 output. If there is nothing to combine, the cleaner path is via a direct out.

 

[A Reel Person]

Agreed. I'm a bit of a bussing fanatic.

Haven't checked the diagrams lately, but is the Direct Out tapping off the preamp, sans mixer strip, or does it tap signal post EQ? I'd typically want EQ inline, minimum.

 

[RRuskin]

Haven't checked the diagrams lately, but is the Direct Out tapping off the preamp, sans mixer strip, or does it tap signal post EQ? I'd typically want EQ inline, minimum.

Direct out is post fader/post eq.
Accessory send is pre fader but depending on the model, could be either pre or post eq.

 

[tascaman]

the best way would be to use the direct outs on each channe, but you also have to have an audio interface for the computer to convert the multiple channels to digital. For intance I use a Yamaha 01X with an i88x and a Presonus Digimax FS that can get up to 24 channelsinto the computer at a time. If you want to monitor your mix you can assign channels to PGM groups or use the AUX busses sitched to post-fader and then route to accordingly to the monitor mixer and the MONITOR SELECT switchrack.

Now for the Presonus Digimax FS I only saw eight microphone inputs that you could send to your comp. at a time... Correct me if I am wrong.

What do you use the Yamaha 01X for along with the i88x?

 

[sweetbeats]

The Digimax FS actually can't send anything to the computer by itself, unless you have a lightpipe interface for the computer (which is one of the things the i88x does)...the Digimax's digital I/O is via ADAT Lightpipe...the 01X is the hub of the digital system. It has 8 hardware inputs (8 mic/line) and 4 hardware outputs, but it is a full-fledged 24 x 2 x 2 digital mixer with 24 "direct-outs" to the computer via firewire. Since it only has 8 analog ins and 4 outs it relies on I/O expanders like the i88x...the i88x has 8 TRS ins and outs, 2 mic pres and 1 hi-z (S/PDIF I/O as well) and 8 via lightpipe...it'll handle up to 18 of any of those at a time...obviously the Digimax connects to the i88x. So that's how it works Digimax --> i88x --> 01X --> PC. The 01X is also a comprehensive DAW controller, so its a 3 in 1 device (mixer, computer audio interface and DAW controller).

 

[sweetbeats]

BTW,

Brian L, I do want to say thank you for contributing as you have. I like the idea of this thread drawing M-500 users together and posting pictures, tips, special applications, that sort of thing, so thank you.

In between the 48, BR-20T, M-___ mixer, and 58 projects...OH and cleaning up the PB-64, I've been making a sketch of how to connect all the gear in the control room up...yeah, Ethan, you really got me beat. Yours is all connected and I'm still trying to figure out how to connect it all up!

Just a note, the info below is most assuredly yawn-worthy for many...I'm "thinking" out-loud for portions of it as I work through the fundamentals...I'm open to criticism or suggestions on how I'm thinking of doing it.

I've been trying so hard to think of a way to use my patchbays to avoid having to use the PGM busses (in order to avoid sending audio through another gain stage)...then after reading, and re-reading some things A Reel Person said in this thread about how he utilizes subgroups/pgm busses I realized that, in a sense, they can be used like the coolest ever patchbay...like a combining/diplexing variable patchbay. I'm so used to utilizing subgroups in a live setting strictly for control convenience, but I'm seeing this picture dawning that the PGM groups can be used like the coolest patchbay ever!

So the things I was going to put on the patchbay, the 48 inputs and 8 DAW inputs, I'm going to instead hook those 16 outputs (from the M-520) to the two sets of 8 PGM OUTs. That way, any source or combination of sources can be routed to any or all of the 8 outputs, and then depending on what is record enabled on the DAW or on the 48 will determine which pair of each PGM out is being used. I suppose if I wanted to record to the 48 and the DAW simultaneously I could connect the DAW to the direct outs and manage the level to the DAW with the channel fader, and then assign to the PGM buss and drive the levels as hot as desired to the 48 with the PGM faders...I think I get it now. It takes me awhile sometimes. This is cool. No repatching. If the vocalist mic(s) is/are connected to channel 1 on the snake to channel 1 on the board, we do a take, then when its time to do harmony overdubs nothing needs to be touched except the assign switch. That is cool. I'm so stuck still on this generational idea of maintaining the shortest cleanest signal path (not that that isn't important), and I'm so used to these multichannel preamp/ADA boxes where one channel goes to one DAW channel, but using the PGM busses in this way is so slick it almost makes me not care if a little noise is added.

So for starters, I'm only using channels 1 ~ 8 for inputs for the time being. I'm trying to see what its like living on 12 channels in case the M-___ ends up working into things...

• So the studio snake is connected to channels 1 ~ 8
• I'll put the DAW on the direct outs for channels 1 ~ 8, or I could put them on the ACCESS jacks...but wait...I wanted to connect the ACCESS jacks to the EXTernal input jacks on the meter bridge so I could get a VU visual on input levels for each channel...so then if I went that route the DAW would be connected to the FLB jacks on the meter bridge...yeah...
• I'll put the stereo out of the DAW mixer on the 2 TRACK B inputs on channels 19 and 20.
• If I wanted to mix up to 8 DAW channels out-of-the-box, I could shift my studio snake to channels 5 ~ 12 and connect 8 outs from the DAW to the LINE inputs on mixer channels 5 ~ 12 since channels 1 ~ 4 lack the LINE inputs in lieu of the hi-Z and phonograph inputs...again, I'm trying to see what its like living on 12 channels...
• I'll connect the 48 inputs to the 8 PGM outs.
• I'll put the outputs of the 48 on the TAPE input jacks on channels 1 ~ 8
• AUXes 1 & 2 are going to go to the patchbay to patch to the RS-20B reverb box, or my Roland DC-30 analog chorus/delay box, -OR- to the Yamaha 01X mixer which has two 24-bit stereo effect engines.
• Not totally sure where to return the effects...maybe the LINE inputs of channels 17 ~ 20...
• AUXes 3 & 4 will also go to the patchbay, but will be normalled to the main inputs of my headphone amp...I want to use AUXes 3 & 4 for cue mixes because that way I can have the meters simultaneously monitor the STEREO A signal for me, as well as the cue mixes for the talent.
• I'll connect the inputs of the BR-20T probably to PGM busses 1 & 2 in parallel with the the channel 1 & 2 sends to the 48...when tracking to the 48, mixer inputs 1 ~ 8 will be assigned to various PGM busses, but when mixing down, mixer channels 1 ~ 8 will be sourced to the TAPE jacks and assigned to PGM busses 1 & 2 which won't be a problem because tracks 1 & 2 on the 48 will be monitoring the sync or repro heads...yeah...
• The outputs of the BR-20T will be connected to the 2 TRACK A inputs on channels 17 and 18.

I'll come up with other connection schemes as situations arise, but this will get me going, and at least help me figure out what I'm missing in my cable/snake collection!

 

[Dream of Analog]

man

What an epic thread. I always wanted one of those mixers.

 

[sweetbeats]

Hey Dream, welcome!

Its crazy how relatively affordable they are becoming/have become.

Always wanted one? Now's your chance!!

 

[sweetbeats]

I have the M-520 all hooked up for a tracking session tonight.

I'm still in need of some snakes so I don't have everything connected as I'd like to eventually, but its good for now. As I said earlier I'm using just eight channels for now, 5 ~ 12. Each channel has a direct out to the DAW, tape return from the 48, insert SEND and RCV to the patch bay, I'm using the additional pre-fade send jacks to the meter bridge EXTernal jacks so I can have a VU meter for each channel, or switch them to monitor the PGM groups...I'm using channels 17 and 18 as a stereo effects return at the moment using the LINE jacks, but it sources a patch bay so it is quick to change that. Channels 19 and 20 are just being utilized for the 2 TRACK B jacks at the moment. Again the source is a patch bay, but I've got them normalled to the stereo output of the DAW. Its really cool being able to directly source the 2 TRACK A/B inputs at the monitor select switchrack, and I love having a real talkback mic and quickly being able to monitor AUX mixes.

What I wish they had included on this mixer: a master control for the monitor mixer.

I've also noticed the pots and switches are all pretty scratchy. If you read way back you'll recall that I only gave channels 1 ~ 4 the DeoxIT treatment. I'm paying for that now. I was surprised that the input source select switches need to be worked...had a channel that I thought was dead, but I just needed to flick the switch around a few times. After the tracking session tonight I will squirt a little DeoxIT down into those switches since those are easily accessible from the top with the dress panel on. The pots, even though they are scratchy, will pass clean signal after sweeping them around a bit so I'm not going to go crazy.

Another comfy feeling is just how audio sounds through the M-520...keep in mind that this is the nicest mixer I've ever owned and had the chance to get to know, but even the headphone mix has a more full and comfortable sound to it than the headphone jack on my Yamaha 01X or i88x. Its just softer and more dynamic at the same time...bigger. And the pre's on the M-520 sounded the best during a recent tracking session. I was having problems with harshness. Never totally resolved the issue but the M-520 pre's won hands down over the Tascam MX-80 (but this didn't get fully tested because the first two channels I tried were so scratchy...), Yamaha i88x or Presonus Digimax FS. More full and natural sounding.

 

[Tijs]

Hello Sweetbeats,

First of all I read all the posts of this thread an I must compliment you on your clear documentation of the cleaning process. Very informative!

I just received a M-520 as well. I'm used to ITB, but with this console I want to send the outs of my firface 800 & 2 AI3 interfaces to the ins of the tascam. I have some problems with testing it. The headphones are connected and I want to check the channels. I followed your instructions in post #258 but no succes yet. I have to mention that not all jumpers were included so i have jumpers connected on channel 1-16 en buss 1 (which is the buss I am trying to monitor). Does it matter that the other busses and channels 17-20 are not jumpered when I try your explaination from post #258? I think the headphone amp works as I can hear a slight noise.

Hope you have some more tips on how to test the unit.

Best regards,

Tijs de Jong

 

[sweetbeats]

Tijs,

Welcome, and congrats on getting an M-520!

Fireface...that's a nice unit too for sure.

Please post up some more detail about how you have the Fireface connected to the M-520. Are you using the LINE input jacks, or the TAPE input jacks?

If you are using the LINE inputs (channels 5 ~ 20), make sure your input source select switch is set to LINE, the correct TRIM knob is set to a nominal level (i.e. play your program material and then set the TRIM knob so the overload LED lights just occasionally), the PGM ASSIGN "1" switch is latched, and the channel fader is raised to the shaded area.

If you are using the TAPE jacks (channels 1 ~ 16), just make sure the input source selector switch is set to TAPE, and the appropriate TRIM knob is set to the right level...then its the same thing with the PGM ASSIGN "1" switch and the input fader.

In either of the above cases, Make sure that the MONitor channel 1 LEVEL knob (the top orange knob above the PGM buss 1 fader) is set somewhere between 12 and 3 o'clock, the PGM buss 1 fader is in the shaded area, and the MON switch is latched in the MONITOR SELECT switchrack. You should then be able to hear the playback in the phones when raising the headphone level knob.

And yes, make sure that all input channels you are using have the SEND/RCV jumpers in place, as well as any PGM busses. You can use any old RCA cable in lieu of a jumper.

Also, make sure no SOLO or PFL switches are latched...the SOLO LED in the master section should be off...and that the input channels you are using are switched ON (green LED above channel fader is lit).

 

[Tijs]

Hi,

Thanks for your fast reply

I have the SEND/RCV jumpers in place for the first 10 channels and the 1st buss. I hooked up a synth to several of the MIC inputs and switched the channels to MIC. The strange thing is, when I put the trims fully open the O/L led still does not light up when giving a max volume out of my Korg MS-10. This is on every channel I tried. I alse tried the two instument inputs with a normal jack. No response either. I also tried diferent cables to exclude a faulty cable problem. Didn't try the tape or RCA inputs yet only XLR and instrument jacks.

In the monitor section only MON is pressed down (so not MONO above). The monitor channel 1 knob is at 12 o clock. And buss 1 fader as well as the fader for the channel are in the grey area.

What concerns me most is that on every channel the O/L led does not light up with high volume input and high gain settings. This is supposed to light up regardless the routing to busses or monitor isn't it?

Regards

Tijs

 

[sweetbeats]

Tijs, woah-woah-woah!

Start by connecting your synth outputs to the LINE inputs. The output from your synth is not designed to connect to a MIC or INSTrument input. Use the LINE inputs.

Make sure that you are adjusting your TRIM using the lower section of the stacked TRIM pot (the bottom knob).

Yes the OL LED should light if it is getting too strong a signal, but let's make sure you've got signal coming into the M-520 in proper way first.

Also, gotta ask, are you sure that audio is coming out of your synth? Have you confirmed in another way outside of the M-520 that the outpout jacks that you are using on your synth are actually passing audio?

 

[evm1024]

Balanced vs unbalanced

I'm feeding my Alesis micron to a mic input on my m520. The Micron has balanced outputs. I use the -30 dB pad and all works well.

My modular however is single ended so it goes into line in.

Mic inputs can be used and they can be adjusted to handle high input levels. If you want to use them you will need an unbalanced to balanced adaptor.

Instrument inputs have lots of gain so the typical modular/clone output wouuld be too hot for them. A home made pad would work.

Line in might also need a pad.


I agree that the Korg is not driving the mic in properly and that is the cuse of the problem.

--Ethan

 

[Tijs]

OK thanks guys. Quite stupid action considering I'm making electronic music for about 15 years now This was my first tryout with XLR connectors (except from some MIC connections on an old behringer desk several years ago). On my fireface and AI3's I only use jacks....

So chances are I already blowed up some MIC inputs with my MS-10... Not so good start. Fortunately I suck at singing and my setup mostly consists o Analog synthies.

Anyways I soldered some jack to RCA for the line inputs. I know for sure my MS is outputting audio as it is normally working fine in my fireface.

Tried it with the new cables and switched to line still no succes (also no O/L signs at high volume).

The desk was on an attick for 15 years unused so maybe it is faulty.

 

[sweetbeats]

Couple of ideas...

Do you have a voltmeter you can check and make sure the power supply is outputting all the power rails? (do you have the manual)?

The tails on the LED's tend to get corroded after so many years. I've got a number of LED's that flicker all the time. You have to take the dress panel off and the LED's just pull right out of their sockets and you can use any number of methods to clean them up...a ScotchBrite pad and some contact cleaner like DeoxIT works really great, and then once the LED tails are cleaned up you can spray contact cleaner into the sockets and work the LED's in and out. Perhaps your OL LED's are just not connecting well. I wouldn't worry too much about whether or not you can get the OL indicators to light...let's try and get some audio through that thing first.

Are there other LED's that are not coming on when they should?

Keep the Korg connected to a channel with the jumper in, but connect another RCA - 1/4" cable to the ACCESS jack on that channel strip, and then connect that to the Fireface and monitor with your speakers or headphones. Hear anything? That is just running the Korg into the LINE amp and then picking it up right after the TRIM knob and sending it to your monitor setup via the ACCESS jack.

OR...skip the whole channel strip...connect the Korg to the SPARE jacks over in the back behind the master section, and then latch the SPARE switch in the MONITOR SELECT switchrack. That patches the SPARE jacks direct to the STEREO A MASTER buss and the headphones. Hear anything?

Anything else you can tell us about this mixer as far as observations, things that don't seem right, that sort of thing? Any visible damage? Certainly sitting in an attic for 15 years would be hard on anything, but if it doesn't look like it was dropped and it isn't corroded, you should be able to get it going depending on how adventurous you are.

How do the jacks look? Are they nice and shiny or oxidized in appearance?

Can you put up some pictures?

When you made your 1/4" to RCA cable, is the 1/4" end TRS or just TS? If it is TRS did you make sure to solder the ring and shield of the TRS plug to the shield of the RCA, and then tip to tip?

 

[Tijs]

There are several leds flickering so corrosion did affect the leds.

The cable connector is TS type. I triour ed another one I found which is Pre-fab.

The RCA's look quite corroded (not too shiny, a little matte). I try to make some pics tommorow.
I followed your advice and patched the korg right into the spare ins. Latched the spare on the monitor section and pushed the stereo master A & B up. Still no sound.

Tommorow I will also check the ACCES to FF800 tip.

The mixer itself doesn't look really abused. Quite good optical condition (That's the reason I bought it and didn't know before how to recognise corriosion). Also PSU doesn't look bad.

All leds wok but some will flicker.

Another detail is that when I listen to the headphone and press all channels one by one on solo there is a kind of faint phasing/chorus kind of noise which acummulates by pressing more solo's so at least there is some signal. The SOLO Led doesn't seem to work though.

The guy which I bought it from had his total end 80ies early 90ies studio disconnected on the attic which also contained a MSR 16 and all patchbays 1040ST and several synchronisers. He told me only some bulbs were out (which are all except two, or do I have to connect them with RCA cable?) and some trims crackled a bit. Seemed like a trusty guy.

Will post some pics tommorow.

 

[sweetbeats]

So you pushed the STEREO MASTER A/B faders up, but what is connected to the STEREO MASTER A/B jacks in the back? You tried to hear the Korg through the SPARE jacks with headphones too?

Since you mentioned that the main SOLO LED in the master section doesn't work, are you sure that nothing is soloed? If anything is soloed anywhere, that is all you will be able to hear in the STEREO A buss or headphones, and if nothing is connected to that soloed source, you will hear nothing.

At the very top of the master section, closest to the meter bridge, are two meter select switches. Make sure they are both set to their respective STEREO busses (i.e. the left one set to STEREO A, and the right one set to STEREO B). When you play the Korg do you see any meter activity on the STEREO A meters (the second two from the right) with the STEREO A fader pushed up?

So, again, do you have the manual?

And do you know your way around a voltmeter and have access to one? Because the next thing I'm going to suggest you do is:

1. Look at the power supply umbilical cable...any bent or broken contacts?
2. Do the same with the socket and plug for the umbilical on the PS-520 and M-520 chassis. Look good?
3. Open up the PS-520 power supply (four screws on the top and the top panel lifts off allowing you to look inside)
4. See anything burned or blown?
5. DISCONNECT THE PS-520 FROM THE MAINS POWER
6. Take each fuse out (you'll see them) and test each one for continuity with your voltmeter
7. Fuses all good? Then continue on...
8. Check each power rail at the multipin connection on the back of the PS-520. You'll need the manual for the pinout, or if you don't have the manual we can put a diagram up here.
9. All rails good? Then continue on...
10. Test the power supply cable for continuity from pin to pin for each of the 20 conductors.
11. All good?
12. Say a collective "Hmmm..."

We'll need to get more into depth then.

If the jacks on the back show oxidation, it isn't out of reach to think that internal connections could be oxidized. We're not there yet, but sometimes on this older gear, in fact it is not uncommon, for a lot of problems to be solved simply by disconnecting and reconnecting internal connections and applying contact cleaner as you go, but do the above checks/tests first and also check to see if you have any audio passing from channel input to ACCESS jack.

The noise you describe in the headphones does not sound like a good thing...though if something is soloed and you don't know it it could just be an something in your mains line or RF interference...I can hear the Spanish radio station down the street in my headphones if I set things right...

And on the meter bulbs, They are in pairs. I learned from evm1024 that when one bulb of a pair go out, the other goes out as well. We'll deal with that later. The jacks in the back of the meter bridge have nothing to do with the lamps...we'll talk about those later. Let's get some audio.

 

[Tijs]

Thanks again for your advice:

YES!! got my first sound out of the spare. It were two faulty cables. Soldered another. Have to say that the base (white)noise is quite high (even with headphone volume down), hope this is only on the headphone out.

Bought a multimeter today. I never used it before but I think black is for ground and red for the + or - output. Is it possible to short the PSU by metering it; wouldn't want to risk this.

There is no activity on the meters though with the right selections.

Also the channelstrip work when I use solo (the led lights up too now).
The EQ section works too. The trim has no effect but this has something to do with the Line input (works only on MIC?)

No succes on the busses yet but I'm in a positve mood now.

The videos will come in handy because almost every slider and pot crackles. So this will be a intensive cleaning job.

I made pics but no permission too upload them.

 

[Tijs]

And the images overview, RCA state and buss settings.