Studio Projects and Neumann

[wilkee]

Would you agree that the higher end monitors were better monitors and decidedly needed to properly evaluate these recordings?

That would be my point.

I have been argueing this point for the last 2 years and for me the Wharfies, Berries, M-audio's etc do not even come close.

Comparing Mics on these budget monitors, using MP3's IMO serves no purpose other than establishing "bragging rights" but it seems to amuse lots of people so let the fun continue.

If anyone is really serious about good sound get the best pair of monitors you can afford because without these you are pissing in the wind.

Tony

 

[robgb]

what the example tells me is neve preamps rock big time, as does a nice guitar.

sd

Agreed, but it's my understanding that the neve's will soon be no longer. Amek has severed their relationship with Rupert Neve and will no longer be making them.

Then again, I could be wrong.

 

[Mr Funk]

So has anyone invited Brent to tell us about the new Studio Project mics? They are the 'E' series right?

For those who have been saying they can't get a good sound out of cheaper mics etc, what about the pro engineers' testimonials on companies websites (SP, ADK, SE etc)? Are all these engineers and producers just wrong or have they been paid to say nice things about the mics? Would they all put their reputation and credibility on the line for a few buck? Maybe they really do think that those ADK/SP/SE/MXL mics are great?

Anyone have opinions on this?

 

[acorec]

So has anyone invited Brent to tell us about the new Studio Project mics? They are the 'E' series right?

For those who have been saying they can't get a good sound out of cheaper mics etc, what about the pro engineers' testimonials on companies websites (SP, ADK, SE etc)? Are all these engineers and producers just wrong or have they been paid to say nice things about the mics? Would they all put their reputation and credibility on the line for a few buck? Maybe they really do think that those ADK/SP/SE/MXL mics are great?

Anyone have opinions on this?

Well, Alice Cooper and Deep Purple both endorse Behringer.

 

[mshilarious]

If anyone is really serious about good sound get the best pair of monitors you can afford because without these you are pissing in the wind.

It's true that you need good monitors to make a good mix that translates.

But let's consider that in terms of this test. If two mics sound the same on typical home stereo speakers, that doesn't tell you much about the mics--it could be that the response of the speakers is insufficient to discern the difference. However the accumulated difference for an entire mix will be noticeable at some gradation of home speakers, so professional monitors are needed to select the better microphone for the mix.

On the other hand, if two mics sound different on home speakers, then they must sound different on professional monitors. That doesn't mean that the home speakers can necessarily correctly identify the superior microphone, but I expect there should be a very strong correlation.

 

[Mr Funk]

I hear what you are saying acorec, but aren't any of the engineers who endorse these products worth listening to? Did they all win their Grammy's by sheer luck?

See, I don't really know any recording engineers, personally or by reputation, as I'm not a pro, or in the business, so I don't know whose opinions are valid. I am actually a film editor (well an assistant really), so I would know whose judgement to listen to regarding film related matters.

However, I take the engineers' opinions on those 'testimonial' pages more seriously than a thumbs up from artists (like you quoted), as they are the experts and harder to please. Artist just like to be heard saying anything!

Next time any of you 'Chinese mic bashers' have a spare moment, have a look at some of those quotes/reviews etc on ADK or SP's site (or any others) and see if you know and respect (or disrespect for that matter) any of the guys praising those mics. May be give them a call and get 'the truth'!?

 

[acorec]

I hear what you are saying acorec, but aren't any of the engineers who endorse these products worth listening to? Did they all win their Grammy's by sheer luck?

See, I don't really know any recording engineers, personally or by reputation, as I'm not a pro, or in the business, so I don't know whose opinions are valid. I am actually a film editor (well an assistant really), so I would know whose judgement to listen to regarding film related matters.

However, I take the engineers' opinions on those 'testimonial' pages more seriously than a thumbs up from artists (like you quoted), as they are the experts and harder to please. Artist just like to be heard saying anything!

Next time any of you 'Chinese mic bashers' have a spare moment, have a look at some of those quotes/reviews etc on ADK or SP's site (or any others) and see if you know and respect (or disrespect for that matter) any of the guys praising those mics. May be give them a call and get 'the truth'!?

I know an engineer who got a free mic for evaluation. So, he evaluated it and got to keep it. He uses it occasionally but told me that the company sorta misquoted him and re-arranged some of the test text to suit their needs. It is like when the press interviews a celebrity and mis-quotes or throws a spin to suit their needs. It happens all the time.

 

[krs]

Not mention modding the frikking mic they are sending for evaluation...

 

[baekgaard]

What are good monitors, then?

... and for me the Wharfies, Berries, M-audio's etc do not even come close.

...

If anyone is really serious about good sound get the best pair of monitors you can afford because without these you are pissing in the wind.

Just wondering... is there agreement on what good monitors are? I mean, Neumann doesn't make monitors, so it makes it more difficult to pick the ones with the right name Or what are good monitors in your book?

I'm quite happy with my Dynaudio (BM6A), that I prefer instead of the similar Genelecs. Some of the others I've heard didn't really suit my taste, althouhg I'm sure others prefer a different sound.

But I'm not sure if these even qualify as OK-ish monitors in your book?




-- Per.

 

[wilkee]

I'm quite happy with my Dynaudio (BM6A), that I prefer instead of the similar Genelecs. Some of the others I've heard didn't really suit my taste, althouhg I'm sure others prefer a different sound.

But I'm not sure if these even qualify as OK-ish monitors in your book?




-- Per.

Dynaudio make some of the great monitors, They also make a good range of drive units that you will find in many other speakers. To better the BM6's you would have to spend a fair bit more money.

I tend to like the monitors with the British Sound i.e. ATC, Spendor etc. I use ATC SCM50's myself but I am looking to buy a smaller pair as I do not have room for them since recently moving.

Tony

 

[krs]

You guys are right - I am wrong - I just read the Studio Projects website which was really enlightening and cleared up a lot of confusion for me. Like this excerpt:

We think it's quite simple. Our mics are every bit as good or better at a fraction of the cost you would pay for a world class German microphone. No, we are not a German mic, but we sure do sound like those $3,000.00 models. We use an outstanding capsule based on a 1950's German design, but we have made it sonically better due to advanced manufacturing techniques.

Incredible! I 'm going to go buy a bunch immediately.

 

[sdelsolray]

You guys are right - I am wrong - I just read the Studio Projects website which was really enlightening and cleared up a lot of confusion for me. Like this excerpt:

We think it's quite simple. Our mics are every bit as good or better at a fraction of the cost you would pay for a world class German microphone. No, we are not a German mic, but we sure do sound like those $3,000.00 models. We use an outstanding capsule based on a 1950's German design, but we have made it sonically better due to advanced manufacturing techniques.

Incredible! I 'm going to go buy a bunch immediately.

KRS,

Please don't start this again. We already went through it last year. Round and round about the SP website statement. Whether is was true, false, opinion, misrepresentation, bullsh**, salemanship, etc. ad nauseum.

 

[noisedude]

krs - you only missed the boat by about 3 years, man. Don't feel too bad about it.

 

[krs]

Better late than never

My jaw nearly hit the floor when I read that crap.

 

[Aceboympk]

Then there are newbies like myself that just wonder what the hell we're to believe. I mean, do we believe what people say is good about a product, or those that write a product is shitty. I can understand if there were a lot of in between opinions/reviews. But, to have such a huge variance for an opinion is really hard to understand. Yes, this is an art, and like a art brush, and yada, yada, yada. But, come one. How about a little more consistency?

Its so damn confusing that I sometimes want to just give up. I cannot afford to go out and buy some mics to try them out and then re-sell them for a loss because they actually do sound like shit. Doing so would cause a HUGE rift with the "house boss". So, I'm really at the mercy of this forum. Yes, some mics have consistently been identified as crap. Those are easy. But, on one thread the SP C-4's are great sounding and awesome bang for the buck to record AC GTR. On another, the C-4's suck on AC GTR and they should only be used for toms. I mean, there can't be that big of a difference where someone would write something is great, and another person would write it sucks. Noone would pick up a paintbrush and say it was great, and another person would write it sucks IF both painters were equally qualified. So, why does that happen here?

I hate not knowing what I don't know. Its even more frustrating to find out what I thought I was learning MAY OR MAY NOT be crap. Cool, just what I needed.

I'm going to demo a pair of John Peluso SD's next weekend. That's great except I have no idea what I'll be LISTENING for. You may as well put a friggin' can and some string in front of me.

Regards,
Mark (the dumb ass newbie)

 

[acorec]

Then there are newbies like myself that just wonder what the hell we're to believe. I mean, do we believe what people say is good about a product, or those that write a product is shitty. I can understand if there were a lot of in between opinions/reviews. But, to have such a huge variance for an opinion is really hard to understand. Yes, this is an art, and like a art brush, and yada, yada, yada. But, come one. How about a little more consistency?

Its so damn confusing that I sometimes want to just give up. I cannot afford to go out and buy some mics to try them out and then re-sell them for a loss because they actually do sound like shit. Doing so would cause a HUGE rift with the "house boss". So, I'm really at the mercy of this forum. Yes, some mics have consistently been identified as crap. Those are easy. But, on one thread the SP C-4's are great sounding and awesome bang for the buck to record AC GTR. On another, the C-4's suck on AC GTR and they should only be used for toms. I mean, there can't be that big of a difference where someone would write something is great, and another person would write it sucks. Noone would pick up a paintbrush and say it was great, and another person would write it sucks IF both painters were equally qualified. So, why does that happen here?

I hate not knowing what I don't know. Its even more frustrating to find out what I thought I was learning MAY OR MAY NOT be crap. Cool, just what I needed.

I'm going to demo a pair of John Peluso SD's next weekend. That's great except I have no idea what I'll be LISTENING for. You may as well put a friggin' can and some string in front of me.

Regards,
Mark (the dumb ass newbie)

Home recording happens in rooms and listening environments that reange from passable to truly horrific. The opinions of equipment here are so varied bacause of this fact. There is no way around trying the stuff in your environment. You cannot rate any equipment until you have some experience hearing equipment. This means recording and finding out for yourself what works and what does not work. My advice is to buy from sources that allow returns if you are not happy with any item. If you wanna get really cheap, Ebay stuff and learn to live with the Ebay life. But, trying stuff out in your environment is the only way you will ever know what is right for you.

 

[mshilarious]

I'm going to demo a pair of John Peluso SD's next weekend. That's great except I have no idea what I'll be LISTENING for. You may as well put a friggin' can and some string in front of me.

If you don't know what to listen for, don't audition a pair. Otherwise you will be auditioning not only the source, the mic, the preamp, and the headphones, but also your knowledge of stereo mic techniques.

To isolate variables, you need to do a comparison with as many variables controlled as possible. Try to audition three different SDCs in the same environment at the same time, with the ability to either switch frequently (within a few seconds) or record & review later.

 

[vaultstudio]

It all breaks down to what sounds good to YOU. This is a HOME RECORDING forum, which probably means there's quite a few noobies out there just getting started with a self-contained multitracker. Most - not all - of these people are not going to be able to discern the nuances between a SP and a Neumann, let alone be able to AFFORD a Neumann. We can all sit here and rattle off equipment brands that sound like we're reading out of the Munich phone book, but what it boils down to is how things sound to YOU. If YOU love your C3 on vox, go for it. I'd be willing to bet that the majority of consumers couldn't pick out which mic is which on a blind listen - oh sure, they may be able to say mic a sounds different than mic b, but never would you hear a "oh... mic b is the neumann". Note that I said "consumer", not "engineer".

I had an interesting discussion with an engineer I ran into a while back about the studio biz - we talked about everything from chinese mics to sample rate and bit depth. His comment was that we record the MUSIC for the consumers, but the RECORDING is for other engineers. Couldn't be more true. And as someone else pointed out, most home recording takes place in rooms with shitty acoustics, which levels the playing field. I could throw up a C3 and a U87 in a cinderblock basement and I don't think anybody's gonna be going ga-ga over which sounds better.

The most important piece of equipment to your sound is between the mixer (or Computer) and the chair in your control room.

"If it sounds good, it IS good." Don't know who that quote is attributed to (my apologies), but it is so true...

Bill

 

[Stefan Elmblad]

If anyone thinks the C1 is better than the U87, don't buy either, cause you need new monitors.

 

[robgb]

If anyone thinks the C1 is better than the U87, don't buy either, cause you need new monitors.

I think if you bother reading the posts, you'll find that nobody ever said the C1 is better than the U87.