Studio Projects and Neumann

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Wow - a year ago it was popular to love PMI and now it's popular to slam them? This is a crazy cyber-world we are inhabiting here people.

The problem with this is that ... well ... this is a redundant argument. Do you prefer the sound of one mic to another? That's fine. Maybe you need to spend a little more to get your favourite sound. Maybe you find it in an SM57, or an SP B1, or a Nady ribbon. Maybe it can only be found in the Brauners and Royers of your studio.

There's an awful lot of crap being spouted here and what worries me is that we only have this about PMI. Where are the "ADK sound/don't sound as good as Neumann" threads? The hype is the same but some of you people are just enjoying slamming PMI because you know their people read this forum.

Sad! :mad:
 
robgb said:
Here's the difference. I'm not TRYING to be funny. I'm trying to have a discussion that actually contributes something worthwhile to home recording, and because you boys have nothing of value to contribute, you make lame jokes -- the last refuge of fools.
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at what point do you consider beating a dead horse worthwhile? i think most of us have accepted the fact that sp and neumann arent the same, not that close and just because its says "like" neumann doesnt mean it is. and yet those who consider themselves "informed" want to keep debating it until the cows come home throwing pot shots at each other. let it go man....bury the horse and euligize it.
 
noisedude said:
... some of you people are just enjoying slamming PMI because you know their people read this forum.

Sad! :mad:
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Sad that people slam PMI ... or sad that our discussions are constantly being monitored by marketing entities?
 
Well, ah slobbermonster: There is no EQ on these recordings, unless you consider good mic placement to be a form of EQ. A lot of what I have mostly are live performances done around L.A. There is a lot of "FolkScene" stuff, which is a program on KPFK 90.7. The engineers are Peter Cutler and Steve Barker. The performances are done in studio A and mixed straight to 2-track right on the air. I also have many orchestral recordings done with SP mics used for spot, section and solo pickup, along with many other types of recordings of Jazz, reggae, etc. Mostly live.
If you are having trouble getting good results from your mics, I would recommend that you learn how to use a microphone. This is not meant to be a put-down, but what I have come to find is that the primary problem with 99% of people on the internet complaining about how they can't get a decent recording is due to the fact that they have no idea how to get a good recording in the first place and end up blaming their gear. The reason for this is that recording is hard. It's just tough to do and it takes a long time to learn. You can't get a decent vocal sound with the C1 or B1? Well, I can. The aforementioned engineer, Steve Barker has worked with a lot of great vocalists, Frank Sinatra included. He can get a great vocal with a C1 or B1. Lots of people can and do - just not everybody. The problem is not the mic. Yes, a Neumann is a better mic than the Studio Projects, but that absolutely does not mean that in order to get a good vocal, a mic made by Neumann or costing X amount of dollars must be used. It's simply not true. Do you think that if you use a really high dollar mic to record, that it automatically means you cannot make harsh, crappy recordings? Do you see the point here? You are saying that the C1 and the B1 are bad mics because you can't find anything that they sound good on. Perhaps you might take that as a clue that there are other issues than the mics, since obviously if other people are using them to a higher degree of success, you are doing something different from them and ending up with predictably bad results.

Brent Casey
Studio Projects Microphones
877-563-6335



slobbermonster said:
Some of us like things to sound natural without a bunch of EQ. Sorry dude, I own a C1 and a B1 so far I haven't found anything they sound great on and they suck big time on good vocalists. The bad vocalists sound bad no matter what you put in front of them. :) They are in the sort of ok class. Mostly I keep them around in case I run out of good mics or if something breaks down, they are better than no mic that's for sure and they aren't a total doorstop.
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Brent Casey said:
Well, ah slobbermonster: There is no EQ on these recordings, unless you consider good mic placement to be a form of EQ. A lot of what I have mostly are live performances done around L.A. There is a lot of "FolkScene" stuff, which is a program on KPFK 90.7. The engineers are Peter Cutler and Steve Barker. The performances are done in studio A and mixed straight to 2-track right on the air. I also have many orchestral recordings done with SP mics used for spot, section and solo pickup, along with many other types of recordings of Jazz, reggae, etc. Mostly live.
If you are having trouble getting good results from your mics, I would recommend that you learn how to use a microphone. This is not meant to be a put-down, but what I have come to find is that the primary problem with 99% of people on the internet complaining about how they can't get a decent recording is due to the fact that they have no idea how to get a good recording in the first place and end up blaming their gear. The reason for this is that recording is hard. It's just tough to do and it takes a long time to learn. You can't get a decent vocal sound with the C1 or B1? Well, I can. The aforementioned engineer, Steve Barker has worked with a lot of great vocalists, Frank Sinatra included. He can get a great vocal with a C1 or B1. Lots of people can and do - just not everybody. The problem is not the mic. Yes, a Neumann is a better mic than the Studio Projects, but that absolutely does not mean that in order to get a good vocal, a mic made by Neumann or costing X amount of dollars must be used. It's simply not true. Do you think that if you use a really high dollar mic to record, that it automatically means you cannot make harsh, crappy recordings? Do you see the point here? You are saying that the C1 and the B1 are bad mics because you can't find anything that they sound good on. Perhaps you might take that as a clue that there are other issues than the mics, since obviously if other people are using them to a higher degree of success, you are doing something different from them and ending up with predictably bad results.

Brent Casey
Studio Projects Microphones
877-563-6335
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I agree with you 100%. The only place where the high-end mics shine is in the studio where you build up like 24 tracks. Then you WOULD hear a big difference between a high-end mic and a budget mic. BTW, this goes for pre-amps too. There is definitely a reason some equipment costs $$$ and some does not. It does not mean you can't get great results with the RIGHT budget equipment. The problem comes when the home reccer decides to put their mix against commercial recordings. This is where the difference is night and day. In that situation, it is the equipment, the room, the monitoring facilities AND the experience.
 
Brent Casey said:
Do you see the point here? You are saying that the C1 and the B1 are bad mics because you can't find anything that they sound good on. Perhaps you might take that as a clue that there are other issues than the mics, since obviously if other people are using them to a higher degree of success, you are doing something different from them and ending up with predictably bad results.
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Careful, you don't want to be accused of beating a dead horse. :)

I think you nailed the problem. Probably half the guys on this forum who slam low budget equipment are incapable of recording anything halfway decent no matter WHAT equipment they use. I've heard many great recordings that were done with what these guys consider crap.

The two most important ingredients to a great sound are a) recording/mixing ability; and (most of all) b) talent.
 
slobbermonster said:
Gee Crazydoc didn't mean to offend you. I take it your a Studio Projects fan? Like I said it's better than no mic and it's not a doorstop like some stuff I've puchased. If I can get permission I'll be glad to send you a wav file since I also hate the sound of MP3 and think that MP3 is one of the worst things that has happened to music. But maybe you like MP3? If you do I apologize in advance for speaking about MP3 in a less than positive light. :eek:
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This has nothing to do with PMI per se - only about anonymous posters here without any known credits or knowledge, bashing gear they may or may not have any reference for evaluating. Somehow, the oft repeated mantra "that mic sucks" just doesn't impart any relevant knowledge nor is a basis for intelligent thought.

Just as "this mic may be better than nothing", so an mp3 is better than the sound of silence. Even, in this case, a list of your gear would be "better than nothing."

And I have no bone to pick with you personally - you're just one of many who seem to talk the talk, but haven't seen you out on the walk.
 
And I have no bone to pick with you personally - you're just one of many who seem to talk the talk, but haven't seen you out on the walk.
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Actually I've put up samples of stuff before. The last one was a comparison of Gt44, gt33 and Bottles for those considering purchasing the GT stuff when Guitar Center had it on sale. That was with accoustic guitar. If I put up someones stuff who sings, since I don't, I have to get their permission or for tha matter anyone else I work for, I have to get their permission. If you look at the thread with members sharing what mics they have, I indeed shared a partial list of the mics I own. I'll bump it for you :)
 
acorec said:
I agree with you 100%. The only place where the high-end mics shine is in the studio where you build up like 24 tracks. Then you WOULD hear a big difference between a high-end mic and a budget mic. BTW, this goes for pre-amps too. There is definitely a reason some equipment costs $$$ and some does not. It does not mean you can't get great results with the RIGHT budget equipment. The problem comes when the home reccer decides to put their mix against commercial recordings. This is where the difference is night and day. In that situation, it is the equipment, the room, the monitoring facilities AND the experience.
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I have to disagree, at least to an extent. I only record 2, 3, or maybe 4 channels max, and only for a single source. Even with such a low populated "mix", there's a vast difference between a high quality signal chain and a budget signal chain, at least to my ears.

I would agree that the differences would show up even more in a heavily populated mix of, say, 24 tracks.

The qualitative difference shows up in 1, 2, or 4 tracks too. Maybe not as much, but its certainly there.
 
slobbermonster said:
Actually I've put up samples of stuff before. The last one was a comparison of Gt44, gt33 and Bottles for those considering purchasing the GT stuff when Guitar Center had it on sale. That was with accoustic guitar. If I put up someones stuff who sings, since I don't, I have to get their permission or for tha matter anyone else I work for, I have to get their permission. If you look at the thread with members sharing what mics they have, I indeed shared a partial list of the mics I own. I'll bump it for you :)
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I'll vouch for Slobbermonster. He's posted some really good clips, and he seems to do a pretty good job of "walking the walk" from what I can tell. His findings seem to be based on relevent experience, quality gear, and good ears and observation skills.
 
chessrock said:
I'll vouch for Slobbermonster. He's posted some really good clips, and he seems to do a pretty good job of "walking the walk" from what I can tell. His findings seem to be based on relevent experience, quality gear, and good ears and observation skills.
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Since when would "experience, quality gear or good ears" count for anything?
 

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Since when would "experience, quality gear or good ears" count for anything?
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That's what counted in the old days :) What you really need for making money doing this is the ability to smile ALOT and tell people how wonderful the are when they're NOT......... and Autotune :D
 
crazydoc said:
This has nothing to do with PMI per se - only about anonymous posters here without any known credits or knowledge
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You mean like you and me... and many many other hr.com members just like us? :D

Brent Casey said:
If you are having trouble getting good results from your mics, I would recommend that you learn how to use a microphone.
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Hello Mr. Microphone... sounds great... lets record... lol. :D
 
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I've read nearly 100 interviews with pro engineers in the past year--the experience many of them share seems relevant here:

Budget gear is cheaper for a reason, so one certainly can't expect the same level of quality. On the other hand, a skilled enginner can probably produce a better sounding recording with a SP mic than someone less skilled with a Neumann. Assuming one has a minimum level of necessary equipment, one
can probably go a lot further by improving one's craft than spending more money. But spending money is easier, quicker, and less painful.

Such thoughts from the pros I've read make these gear discussions here quite interesting but not the deciding factor in producing good recordings.
SP or Neumann? Choose the weapon that your budget allows and then get to work on the hard part--learning to use it effectively and creatively.

JMHO,

J.
 
FWIW - IMHO Brent is spot on ... again ... and I stand by my statement that these threads only exist so that one or two individuals can have a snipe. Acorec is also correct, as is pretty much everyone else. Leave the poor horse alone, it's confused at what the argument is any more.
 
noisedude said:
FWIW - IMHO Brent is spot on ... again ... and I stand by my statement that these threads only exist so that one or two individuals can have a snipe. Acorec is also correct, as is pretty much everyone else. Leave the poor horse alone, it's confused at what the argument is any more.
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The argument -- for anyone you ask on this forum -- is simply this:

"I'm right, you're wrong."

There rarely seems to be a middle ground....
 
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