SM58 replacement ? + mixing desk ?

[Deleted member 200347]

Here's a new recording!
I currently have the gain/level at full and the stereo level (red channel) at 3H
I've got the lows at 2:00 and the compressor at 12:00.

WeTransfer

In your opinion, is it much better or do you see no difference?

My old record :

WeTransfer


After, I also have some low/compressor modifications so it can also change a lot...
I don't know what to do, is it really worth keeping the mixing desk ?

 

[ecc83]

I have taken the liberty of modifying your clip. I found it very 'muddy'.

I have applied a quite severe bass cut (HPF) and (for me) a little upper boost. Now, as I think I have told you, I am clinically deaf so my modifications will probably be a bit extreme compared to other tastes. I still cannot make out what you are saying but at least it is clearer!

You can make these corrections on the mixer and IF it sends them out via USB then you don't need the 2i2. But, if you find you do need the EQ etc on the mixer than you need to keep it. You cannot do this, in real time with that Focusrite interface.

On a more general note. You seem to be a bit hung up on 'Minimalism'! "Do I need this, Do I need that?" Most of the guys and gals here never get rid of stuff. Bugger me! You only had ONE (C'est UN!) USB A to B cable!! If I cared to look I bet I could find four no sweat.

While I am having a moan! The clips are too short, can you not read 20 seconds at least out of the paper? It would help me in particular if you could attach the clips as 320k MP3s? Then I don't have to mess a bout and wait for the download.

Dave.

 

[Deleted member 200347]

"I am clinically deaf so my modifications will probably be a bit extreme compared to other tastes."

You made me laugh so much

Is that right? no problem, here's a 15 seconds clip in mp3 320k format

WeTransfer

Can't wait to see your modification!
Feel free to tell me exactly what you put in so I can do it on my side!

My friend on discord just now told me that he felt like he could hear me in a box whether it was without the compressor or without the lows level 2 and that he could hear me better with the foscurite, That it was much sharper.

 

[ecc83]

Pardon no, I meant ATTACH an MP3 as I have done.

Laugh?: "It is wicked to mock the afflicted" Heh! No matter but yes, I am deaf and have the digital aids to prove it (but I only wear them for conversations and that not a lot)

I have modified the '320k' sample and shown the EQ curve I used. Samplitude SE8 has a pretty crude parametric in it but then I am not making records for EMI!

Your friend said the mixer track was "boxy" ? May have been too much compression. I understand that can make things a bit duller? I suggest you use just a hint of compression to stop you going over the top. For the clips you have posted so far you need none!

Dave.

 

[Deleted member 200347]

Ahah, But no, it wasn't mockery, just your sentence that really made me laugh, but you understood it

Oddly enough, I prefer my recording. I don't understand why he doesn't like it. I think my recording is cleaner. You don't think it's good, you think I'm talking into a box?
Well, I tried it without compression (at least) and apparently it wasn't as sharp as the foscurite.
I'm confused.

 

[Deleted member 200347]

I lowered the compressor (it's currently at 9 o'clock) so I lowered the level otherwise it gets too loud.
I'm still at 2 at the low level and as for everything else, I haven't touched and it's staying in the middle.

WeTransfer

I don't think anything's changed with this mixer. It's up to me to make a choice now. So I'm thinking of going to the goxlr to make it simpler and to adjust the sound as I see fit.

Or I don't have the right settings and I don't understand. I've tried a lot of them, though.

We'll stream tonight and see what other people think.

 

[arcaxis]

I lowered the compressor (it's currently at 9 o'clock) so I lowered the level otherwise it gets too loud.
I'm still at 2 at the low level and as for everything else, I haven't touched and it's staying in the middle.

WeTransfer

I don't think anything's changed with this mixer. It's up to me to make a choice now. So I'm thinking of going to the goxlr to make it simpler and to adjust the sound as I see fit.

Or I don't have the right settings and I don't understand. I've tried a lot of them, though.

We'll stream tonight and see what other people think.

I would very much suggest you download the manual for the GoXLR and give it a thorough read and decide if it would be 'simpler'. I personally think not, but it's your money.
https://mediadl.musictribe.com/media/PLM/data/docs/P0CQK/GO XLR_M_EN.pdf

Both the Yamaha mixer and/or the 2i2 are about as simple as it gets and you've gotten good advice here as to how to get setup. Either of these would be typical for the application you are trying to do and many others are using this gear successfully. I haven't listened to any of your clips as you have posted to a site that requests acceptance of a cookie to hear it...no thanks, use the mp3 upload for this HomeRecording site if you want people to give a listen. I wouldn't use the compressor function at all unless you have a good grasp on what its purpose is and why you would want to use it.

 

[Deleted member 200347]

So I removed the compressor!

I'm still at 2h in low and the rest I haven't touched (still in the middle)
I'd like a little radio voice, but not a lot. But when I listen to myself, I feel like it's a bit of a radio voice.

What do you think about that? Do you think the quality is correct or does it still sound like I'm a box?

And here's a recording here

 

[Deleted member 200347]

View attachment TEST011.mp3

 

[TalismanRich]

After listening to your various files, plus the modification that Dave posted, I think Dave is on the right track. You have a particularly strong resonance around 100 - 150 Hz. That is giving the voice a very "boomy" sound. A roll-off starting at around 400 Hz will remove that bass from the voice. You can play with the amount of bass reduction, but you should make sure that what you are using to monitor the sound is giving you an accurate information. If your speakers or headphones are not reproducing the low bass, you may not hear the effect.

I also noticed a fair amount of sibiliance, which seems to be very common in the French language. A narrow peak reduction at around 3500 Hz helped minimize this.
Attached it an adjusted file of Test11, similar to what Dave posted but not quite as extreme in bass roll-off.


View attachment Twinky Test11 Mod.mp3

 

[Deleted member 200347]

Thanks for the precision!

So I have to play with the "low" channel only?

Anyway, I was at 2H and now I'm at 10H.

I can't find the same voice as your recording. I guess we'll have to play with the high and medium, won't we?

But it's already better, I think!

Here it is:

 

[ecc83]

Ooo! I like that Rich! You have sucked out "the boom".
I hardly ever comment on the quality of peoples audio clips and almost never on musical ones because of the muttoness. However, this is about 'clear speech' and I think I was justified in making it better for 'me'?

When I listen to radios 3 or 4 on my hi fi I generally get the gist very well sans aids. I might have the volume a bit higher than she indoors likes but not that bad. Classic FM however is an example of what Twicky means by a "Radio Voice"? Trying to be warm and intimate but just comes over as a wooly, mumbly mess to me...'K! Even the gals have hairy chests!

Dave.

 

[TalismanRich]

That last sample seemed much improved.

I'm not exactly sure to what 2H and 10H is referring. If you are using the MG10XU tone controls, I would engage the HPF which will drop down at 80Hz. The low tone control is a low shelf type centered at 100 Hz, and I would roll that down to -5 or -7 to start. You could go down further, depending on your taste. It will depend a bit on the slope of the shelf. I don't find anything in the specifications as to the slope of the shelf, but the HPF is specified at 12dB/Octave at 80Hz.

I would be a bit careful adding in the Mid band frequency. 2.5KHz is close enough to the 3.5kHz sibilance peak. It may accentuate the "s" sounds. You can add a bit at 10k to add some "sparkle".

Small adjustments can make a big difference in the balance.

 

[TalismanRich]

Classic FM however is an example of what Twicky means by a "Radio Voice"? Trying to be warm and intimate but just comes over as a wooly, mumbly mess to me...'K! Even the gals have hairy chests!

Dave.

Even the gals have hairy chests!

I remember the advent of "Album Oriented Rock" in the late 60s in the US. A nearby station at Fort Knox KY would change formats after 8PM, going to the classic deep FM radio voice and the latest album tracks from Pink Floyd, Hendrix, Traffic, etc. I spent many a teenage night laying in bed with my headphones on until midnight!

Thankfully no gals were involved!

 

[Deleted member 200347]

I'm sorry, you're using technical tricks and I don't quite get it, lol.
What exactly do I have to raise and lower?

Turn the bass down another minus seven?



Isn't there a nice software to know if the sound is good or not? Because apart from taking example if your recording which is incredible just like the one of ecc83, I don't really know when the sound of my voice is correct. For me it was already basic correct, but indeed, with your recordings, I can see the difference. I would really like to get closer to the slightly radio sound of the SM7B! Something really clean and a bit grave, a bit like what you did!


Thank you !

 

[arcaxis]

Isn't there a nice software to know if the sound is good or not?

It's the pink glob of matter between your ears that does the data processing to decide if it sounds good or not

Now that you have stuff working a bit, try changing the distance between you and the mic. 'Proximity effect' can alter the bass response. Further away less bass, closer for more bass. Further away and you'll need to increase the gain a bit on the mixer.

 

[arcaxis]

And the differences between an SM58 and SM7b? I have the SM57 and SM7b. To my ears they are pretty close when used in a similar way. Jump to 9:22 for the comparison.

 

[TalismanRich]

Twinky, you appear to be using the Yahama MG10XU.

On that mixer, there are three tone controls, High, Mid and Low, plus a Hi Pass Filter (HPF). When the knob is centered on the each tone control it is in the zero position, as in not doing anything. Turning each knob will adjust the sound from -15dB cut to +15dB boost. There are numbers on the knob, showing -15 and +15. Each division is about 3dB



When you said the knob was at 2H or 10H, are you talking about 2:00 on the clock face and 10:00 on the clock face? 2H would be a boost of about 5-6dB which would make it sound very boomy. If you moved it to 10:00 on the clock face, that would be about a 5-6dB drop in the response. That's much closer to the response you want to make it clearer for the listener.

 

[ecc83]

Good call Rich. Now why didn't my meds-ridden old brain get that?! The 'clock' thing I mean.

My worry is that the USB feed will be pre-EQ and other functions. I have tried to contact Yamaha support but you have to fill in a form and they want ser Nos and DOP! I have lodged a question with Sweetwater.

Dave.

 

[Deleted member 200347]

Cool these videos, not bad comparison and explanation!
Indeed, there is not really a big difference... Rather a good thing, it will save me from buying an SM7B if I really manage to give my voice something clean!

Thanks a lot, it's clearer now!
And yes I was talking about the clock face ahah.

I find that the HPF doesn't really change much except maybe a little bit more but really not much.

I lowered the lows to -6 DB and even a bit more and I don't think it's really clean. On the other hand, when I leave everything in zero position, I like the sound.

Here are several recordings for you to see!

Recording with HPF and zero position channels


Recording without HPF and zero-position channels


Recording low -7 DB without HPF


Low Recording - 7 DB with HPF

So much for the tapes. Well, at least you have an idea. Again, I think the first two recordings on channel zero are much better. It's not bad radio, is it? I wish it did.

The - 7DB is quite similar to what you did TalismanRich I think !

But I'm not here to say if it's better, I do, but you're the experts and I'd follow your voice if I may say ahah

Thanks so much for the advice,