Heard a “high end” console first time in my life. Neotek

  • Thread starter Thread starter AnalogApples
  • Start date Start date
A

AnalogApples

Member
“Can expensive equipment really sound good enough that it’s worth the price tag?” -me for all of my 20s. I’ve been a hobby recordist for about 20 years and last night I finished installing a 24 channel Neotek Series III in my home. Had a friend over to make a tape recording an hour later.

Last night might be the first time I’ve ever made a recording, metaphorically speaking. It’s THAT good. It made my Tascam M3500 sound like a scam product. I loved the sound of that Tascam, but it doesn’t sound anything like the Neotek. The popularity of home studios is indeed tragic because no way I’ll ever have the budget to fill my house with boutique gear like this. Arrogant pricks like me thought they’ll outsmart generations of engineering tradition with a DAW and a cheap DAC.

I can see why 2 channels of Neotek sell for thousands, it’s actually worth it for a serious recording artist or pro studio.

If I try to describe the night and day difference I’d say the Neotek is 5 times louder but also sounds sharper, warmer and has a much more 3 dimensional sound quality. I really hoped it would be similar to the Tascam, and I could get this giant Neotek out of my house, but nope. I’m marrying this console.

If you are a home recording guy (or gal, or hermaphrodite) seriously invest in one or two racked high-end channel strips. They earned the hype. I wish I’d spent the money sooner.

Do you have a story of having an epiphany when you heard truly high-end recording equipment for the first time??
 
I’ve heard high end gear in pro studios. I personally got to play around with a mix on an SSL g series console once.

But in that kind of environment you expect it to sound great. It’s a combination of of every thing. At home I imagine it might be mind blowing. I’ve not had that experience.

So is this console yours? As in a permanent home studio fixture?
 
“Can expensive equipment really sound good enough that it’s worth the price tag?” -me for all of my 20s. I’ve been a hobby recordist for about 20 years and last night I finished installing a 24 channel Neotek Series III in my home. Had a friend over to make a tape recording an hour later.
I worked on a Neotek Series III. - I though it was good - I also used a AMS Neve 88RS 48 Channel Console - it was a sound - the ‘Neve’ sound - but I didn’t like that everything sounding like that - I’ve done work on a Trident 65 London - very similar to the Neotek - I have to say what I tell all Analog hunting Kids - the Boards are good - but it won’t make your music better and it won’t help you arrange - And the differences between in the box (with plugins) and in the board (and tons of outboard gear - if you can afford that level) comes down to maintenance - you won’t have to on your computer - but you will on Old analog consoles - and the space they take up these days is too much for me -
unless you have a good sized room - and even them you have reflections and other audio gremlins.
 
I’ve heard high end gear in pro studios. I personally got to play around with a mix on an SSL g series console once.

But in that kind of environment you expect it to sound great. It’s a combination of of every thing. At home I imagine it might be mind blowing. I’ve not had that experience.

So is this console yours? As in a permanent home studio fixture?
Yes I got it for less than I should’ve as everyone else correctly viewed it as a red flag maintenance nightmare. I’m at the bottom of the middle class in Midwest USA income-wise and that’s the only way this country dude will ever posses a pro console. It’s a private all-analog setup in a rented antique tilting house (no parallel surfaces hahahaha help) I bought it sight unseen and it’s been stored in a garage10 years in the subtropics. 7 dead channels off the bat. 2 had burned resistors and replacing them fixed those channels .

The control room is heavily treated with rock wool insulation at critical reflection points. It sounds wonderful in there, even MP3s sound sound nice in there and I’m normally critical of that file type. Live room is 30 ft by 14 foot.

I hate to admit I’m a changed man. The hype is real about this pricey gear, bummer, haha
 
I worked on a Neotek Series III. - I though it was good - I also used a AMS Neve 88RS 48 Channel Console - it was a sound - the ‘Neve’ sound - but I didn’t like that everything sounding like that - I’ve done work on a Trident 65 London - very similar to the Neotek - I have to say what I tell all Analog hunting Kids - the Boards are good - but it won’t make your music better and it won’t help you arrange - And the differences between in the box (with plugins) and in the board (and tons of outboard gear - if you can afford that level) comes down to maintenance - you won’t have to on your computer - but you will on Old analog consoles - and the space they take up these days is too much for me -
unless you have a good sized room - and even them you have reflections and other audio gremlins.
The maintenance required is something I should not have dismissed. I have many full days of electronics projects to do to optimize a 16 channel 1” tape to 1/4” master tape (or to hard drive) setup. I should’ve just bought horses instead of getting into quality recording gear haha
 
The biggest problem for all things TASCAM is the mediocrity of their mic preamps. Going direct to a recorder from a quality outboard unit and only using the board to monitor and mix raises the performance level considerably. That being said, Neotek was in all respects a superior console to anything TASCAM ever made.
 
I say get the tool for the job. Don't worry about cost too much. You only have to pay it once.
If you can't swing it all in one go, there's always a payment plan.
What costs you more is buying loads of cheap crap that turns out to disappoint.
My plan is to buy what I want when I can, but keep the quality up.
 
My Studer 928 console. Sounds better than anything I’d ever used before…substantially. Wider sound stage, better definition across the entire frequency spectrum…no harshness…super-quiet, and the EQ is a joy to use and works without causing other problems. I love the stereo width filter on the stereo channels…and it just sounds clear no matter what you throw at it or how hard you throw…gobs of headroom. And when you push it there’s a very usable bite to the mid range. It’s just very, very musical…so easy to get good sounds out of it. And as far as maintenance? It’s very well built using very high quality components…gold-plated contacts and connectors make a difference…well-engineered…quality glass fiber boards…VCA faders and multiple amp stages mean no skritchies…it’s 25 years old and with the exception of a couple repairs it needed when I got it due to mishandling, it’s needed nothing…everything works every time. Even though it doesn’t need fiddling I’d rather that than dealing with OS and software updates and then hardware updates when the hardware is no longer supported…keeping up with changes…computers are *not* maintenance-free lol.
 
To add to my last post, make no mistake I’m not slamming “budget” gear, or in any way insinuating you have to have higher-end equipment to produce something great. All I’m saying is there is a difference, and I love the Studer. I also have enjoyed using the many other consoles I’ve had and have over the years. And to be very fair that quality factor comes with a price. My Studer console was around $100,000 USD when new in 2000. That’s pushing $200,000 in today’s dollars. I was very fortunate and got it for $3,000. But companies like Teac, for instance, brought features and innovation and well-designed/engineered products to the market for orders of magnitude less cost. And it appears in the designs there was intention behind thoughtfully addressing compromises to ensure a reliable good performing device. So I have a lot of respect for that and avoid comparisons that aren’t fair. But, yes, in my experience a $100,000 console sounds and performs better than a $1,000 or $10,000 console.
 
Sweetbeats seems to have summed it up. He has a very nice, solid mixer, that does what it is supposed to do - NOT add things other than things we like. EQ is always personal. You grab a knob and while it just changes the response, it does it in a useful way that is predictable. My first bigger home mixer was a Mackie and this did NOT do what the Studer does. The HF control made the sound really harsh, the bottom LF one made it sort of boomy, and the ones in the middle needed serious work to make improvements. It also hissed in an unpleasant way when the gain structure was even a tiny bit off. I bet the Studer doesn't.

Big, sold mixers are buggers to keep going though, once they get old. Some brands would sound nice when abused, others far less so. Cadac controls I loved because all the knobs were silky smooth, the faders responded just right, and you used to have to bang them in certain positions when a channel suddenly went noisy.
 
Sweetbeats seems to have summed it up. He has a very nice, solid mixer, that does what it is supposed to do - NOT add things other than things we like. EQ is always personal. You grab a knob and while it just changes the response, it does it in a useful way that is predictable. My first bigger home mixer was a Mackie and this did NOT do what the Studer does. The HF control made the sound really harsh, the bottom LF one made it sort of boomy, and the ones in the middle needed serious work to make improvements. It also hissed in an unpleasant way when the gain structure was even a tiny bit off. I bet the Studer doesn't.

Big, sold mixers are buggers to keep going though, once they get old. Some brands would sound nice when abused, others far less so. Cadac controls I loved because all the knobs were silky smooth, the faders responded just right, and you used to have to bang them in certain positions when a channel suddenly went noisy.
You reminded me of another observation I made. All the controls on this Neotek feel high quality when I use them. The switches, knobs and faders feel robust and tough. The potentiometers all feel like they have big gears inside (I know they don't). It's so much fun. I don't understand how they do this with the design, but even if I had no idea who Neotek was, just looking at and touching this console instantly makes me feel like it's a very serious piece of equipment.
 
My Studer 928 console. Sounds better than anything I’d ever used before…substantially. Wider sound stage, better definition across the entire frequency spectrum…no harshness…super-quiet, and the EQ is a joy to use and works without causing other problems. I love the stereo width filter on the stereo channels…and it just sounds clear no matter what you throw at it or how hard you throw…gobs of headroom. And when you push it there’s a very usable bite to the mid range. It’s just very, very musical…so easy to get good sounds out of it. And as far as maintenance? It’s very well built using very high quality components…gold-plated contacts and connectors make a difference…well-engineered…quality glass fiber boards…VCA faders and multiple amp stages mean no skritchies…it’s 25 years old and with the exception of a couple repairs it needed when I got it due to mishandling, it’s needed nothing…everything works every time. Even though it doesn’t need fiddling I’d rather that than dealing with OS and software updates and then hardware updates when the hardware is no longer supported…keeping up with changes…computers are *not* maintenance-free lol.
Did you actually get to audition that console before buying it? If you didn't, were you were worried you were going to turn it on, try it, and go "meh, sounds like my prototype Tascam?" I've never heard or even been within 50 yards of a Neotek. I bought mine without even turning it on, paid right around the price you paid for your Studer, but my console is only channels and bussing, no master section whatsoever hence the price.

I remember reading your post about buying that console and I felt like I was watching a buddy get married, like I wanted to throw rice and pop champagne.
 
Sweetbeats seems to have summed it up. He has a very nice, solid mixer, that does what it is supposed to do - NOT add things other than things we like. EQ is always personal. You grab a knob and while it just changes the response, it does it in a useful way that is predictable. My first bigger home mixer was a Mackie and this did NOT do what the Studer does. The HF control made the sound really harsh, the bottom LF one made it sort of boomy, and the ones in the middle needed serious work to make improvements. It also hissed in an unpleasant way when the gain structure was even a tiny bit off. I bet the Studer doesn't.

Big, sold mixers are buggers to keep going though, once they get old...
Rob, that’s been my exact experience with more “budget” EQ…like, it works, for fixing a problem or whatever, but I’m not usually *excited* about what I hear, like musically…a high shelving filter that brightens the sound but it’s not sweet, and it may be harsh, and so I feel like I can only do so much with it…use with care. Or like you said LF filters that are boomy or I like the term muddy, and I believe some of that stems from what’s coming in to the filter…like on the Studer the high quality transformers and opamps, more costly and innovative circuit architecture, VCA stages, trimable distortion nulls at multiple points in the signal path, all metal film resistors, high quality pots, etc…the opamps…a lot of high-quality parts…like $10+ each currently…all of that contributes to low noise and distortion and high slew (an underrated aspect of signal performance…we often focus on the slew rate of an individual amp stage, but what about the cumulative slew rate of the entire signal path? I think these are things Studer addressed in their design), and high quality tracking across stereo signals and it really mitigates the mud factor and sound stage, so what’s going in is clean…so the EQ is just so much more usable, and the highs are sweet and the lows are clear and defined, and then the same goes for the mids. And like you say as I listen and hear something that needs cut, or I want to bring something out spectrally, intuitively I know which filter is going to do that, and I grab the control expecting it to do what I need, and it does just that, whereas on the Tascam or whatever it kinda does it, but there’s baggage that comes along with the change or gets added as a result and then I’m working to mitigate that too. And it feels like “Ugg I hafta use the EQ” vs feeling like I *get* to use it. The Studer EQ is just…easy…and exciting. And the Studer is just so insanely quiet. And I understand your point about big console and the challenges to keep it going, and maybe as my Studer gets older I will run into that more and more, but I’ve torn into a lot of consoles over the years across many brands and classes and types, so I’ve seen a lot of different examples of how they are built and what the negative results over time are of different approaches and designs and as I looked at the Studer I was just like “there ya go”…really high quality boards, and the fact they used the eurocard connectors for the modules and motherboards, all gold plated contacts, and the module connectors completely cover the motherboard connectors so no dust or otherwise can get in there…smart. I’ve picked up some spares over the years, modules that looked like they were in a console in a dirt factory…really, really filthy and beat up…plug them in and 100% everything works…it’s the design and quality. And the motherboards are very well anchored and supported…lots of 2020 and 3030 extruded material and frame buckets no bigger than 16 slots with heavy guage steel sides…relatively light but very strong laterally, longitudinally and torsionally; empty frame you can lift up at a front corner and there is no twist or flex…solid. And it’s not a huge console but not tiny either…almost 4.5’ wide. It’s the same construction as all the other 900 series consoles. So all these things contribute to reliability and longevity and minimal quibbles. Like I said earlier when I got the console it had been sitting for awhile with all the modules pulled out of it, I got it home, put it all together, powered it up, and absolutely everything worked except for a bad output on one channel of one of the master busses, and a bad side on one of the stereo input channels. The master buss issue was a damaged output transformer from poor handling and storage…broken winding…replaced that and all was good, and the stereo channel was a bad VCA. Replaced that and good to go. The console was nearly 20 years old at the time. I’ve never had such an easy startup on a new-to-me console. I’ve had to do LOTS of fiddling on pretty much everything else. I also love the modular meter bridge and all the different options there, and the compressors on the group channels and limiters on the master busses…all very musical and usable and all of which are patchable to any input channel. I also acquired some time ago a couple of the rare 4-channel dynamics modules that go in the meter bridge…so 8 channels of compressor/limiter/gate, but all VCA driven. That means no signal goes *through* the processor, rather the processor sniffs the source, and then controls the channel output VCA according to the settings on the dynamics channel. That means it’s fast and super transparent with no added noise or distortion. Pretty unique I think for onboard dynamics processing. Oh and 10 AUX channels (6 mono, 2 stereo)…great if you have a lot of outboard effects…and the power supplies…there are two generations, both high quality, but the later generation supplies are a notch up using high quality reliable Lambda modules. My console is early generation but I got ahold of a set of later gen supplies and converted over to them…they are switching type so super-fast transient response, and gobs of current capacity…my console uses three supplies, each side of the audio power rails can handle up to 10A…three bipolar supplies that’s 60A total current capacity just for audio. Compare that to many typical supplies that use 78xx/79xx regulators and max current handling is 3A total. It’s just a really powerful great sounding and reliable tool…great as the centerpiece for a hybrid studio since the console is so clean and quiet. I know there is a very valid line of thinking about having a console that adds “color”, but I think the Studer is the perfect switch-hitter. I rather like to lean into sources and source capture techniques and recording systems for “color”, and have a studio central command center (the console) that is clean and quiet…let the tape machines do their thing and the console not get in the way of that. And, again, this is great for digital tracking systems as well. My strong preference is to have an analog console as that centerpiece, but it’s great to have one that doesn’t get in the way of digital clarity, and also lets the color of the sources and analog tracking systems speak, also without getting in the way. And yet the summing busses with their relatively unique hybrid opamp/transformer drivers…you can get “color” if you want that’s really musical…when you push the levels things reach a point where there’s this fine mid-range “fur”…the highs are still clear and sweet and the lows still clear and defined, but there’s this bite on the edges of the mids, like a fringe or kind of a halo that helps midrange transients cut in the mix. Okay that was much more than I intended on going into, but I get talking…these are the things that make it a great console to me as far as the performance and features and then the design and construction “under the hood” that make it so. I know there’s better stuff, but the 928 is far well good enough for me. And, yet again, it comes at a cost! And truly great music has been made on far lesser equipment. So it’s important to never lose sight of the fact that what makes something “great” starts with the writing and composition and performance first and last. And then the space in which it is captured and mic placement. Then mics and front end and of course skilled utilization of whatever is downstream in the signal chain including whatever console is being used. I think those things, and primarily the writing, composition and performance, are going to drive the ultimate quality of the production and whether or not it’s going to connect with people. I will never forget a great lesson in this came at me years ago…these dude that bought my Tascam M-520 console I refurbished…I’d been to his studio and he had some nice equipment, was a prolific writer and performer, and had also spent time in some studios with some exceptionally boutique gear. He *loved* the Tascam. I was surprised. But then I heard some of the stuff he did on it…it was all about the music and how he used the equipment, like the unique things he could do with it to support the music, that made for an impressive outcome. And his style was very classic analog dirt and character…like a really rich sound. And he loved the Tascam for how the summing busses handled being pushed. I think they are 4556 opamps, which are like a high drive version of the TL072. This all sounds garden variety. But the 4556 has really high drive capability…70mA IIRC…and he would drive it and get some fur going…I don’t know…he seemed to be a pretty skilled engineer and producer along with his writing and performance skills. But it sounded great and worked with his style. So my point is I think it’s short-sighted to get hung up on snobbery…it’s okay to accept realities of the capabilities of more expensive gear, but short-sighted to undervalue more budget gear…easy to get lost in the weeds of the equipment and lose sight of the music and how any type of gear *can* contribute. Focus on the music and learn the equipment.
 
You reminded me of another observation I made. All the controls on this Neotek feel high quality when I use them. The switches, knobs and faders feel robust and tough. The potentiometers all feel like they have big gears inside (I know they don't). It's so much fun. I don't understand how they do this with the design, but even if I had no idea who Neotek was, just looking at and touching this console instantly makes me feel like it's a very serious piece of equipment.
This is just a simple matter of quality components. And a big part of what drives the cost. The Studer has P&G faders, granted they are the “budget” type, but they are still really good quality, and when services are super slick and smooth. And the pots, while being mini type, are sealed conductive plastic type with metal shaft and there’s no wiggle to them and they are easy to turn and feel very precise. And as I mentioned earlier the switches are all gold-plated contacts, and illuminated…the channel on switches have a cool green glow and are a larger very high-quality switch…they higher wachelonnstiff generally comes with higher quality parts the feel and perform and last better.
 
Did you actually get to audition that console before buying it? If you didn't, were you were worried you were going to turn it on, try it, and go "meh, sounds like my prototype Tascam?" I've never heard or even been within 50 yards of a Neotek. I bought mine without even turning it on, paid right around the price you paid for your Studer, but my console is only channels and bussing, no master section whatsoever hence the price.

I remember reading your post about buying that console and I felt like I was watching a buddy get married, like I wanted to throw rice and pop champagne.
No not really per se…like it was in a storage unit disassembled when I bought it. But I *did* have lengthy dialog with the guy I bought it from, and he ran a pretty busy project studio in the Seattle area, so he had some engineering chops and I was able to hear some of the work he’d done, one album which had a lot of demanding things to mix just in terms of textures…and he provided details of how the console was used and the console was the front-end and used for mixing…and the thing that got me with what I heard was this wonderful clarity across the frequency spectrum, and powerful elements that could stand out in the dense mix without being overwhelming, and a really lovely bottom end, and the soundstage was really, really wide…it was just a great spectral experience. And I thought “well I don’t really know for sure what the console sounds like, or what it brings to the signal chain, but it was at the center of tracking going in and then mixdown, and it didn’t get in the *way* of a production that sounds like THAT.” And then beyond that studying the schematics and consulting with an electronics subject matter expert friend of mine about the unfamiliar (read “not garden variety”) things I was seeing particularly in the mic amp and summing stages and output drivers, and he was like “there’s special stuff going on in there” and sending me white papers on the circuit concepts…I was interested in another console because of struggles I was having figuring out how to use the 12x8 prototype Tascam console with a 16-track tape machine…the Tascam has three inputs per input module, and they can all be trimmed and accessed simultaneously inline, so you can actually manage and monitor and mix 36 (38 if you include the echo returns) inputs at once, but it’s not ideal with only 12 banks of EQ filter sets, and how the tactile aspect of the mix would have to be managed…so I wanted to verify the Studer would solve those problems AND have enough drive and headroom to play well with the tape machine (the Ampex MM-1000…which is a beast), and when I studied up and verified the Studer is fully balanced, not just at the inputs or outputs, but *all the way through the signal chain*, and not just +4dBu nominal but +6dBu *all the way through the signal chain*, with lots of headroom, and they achieved that with relatively low voltage audio power rails (which promotes longer life and lower heat, which ALSO promotes longevity and reliability), that was it. I knew it had great sonic potential from what I heard, knew it had special shiz going on in the signal path design, and knew it would be a great fit for my hybrid studio (with the 16-track tape machine, other standalone digital recorders as well as computer-based DAW and multichannel interfaces there…lots of outboard gear too…), that was it. Plus the price of $3,000. My 928 has 12 mono input channels and 20 stereo input channels. The mono inputs have mic or line, the stereo channels have two sets of stereo or mono line inputs. They can operate mono or stereo and they are switchable between the sets of inputs. So just on the input channels alone there are 12 mic inputs (with crazy gain range and hybrid transformer coupled mic amp), plus the 12 line inputs on those channels, and up to 40 stereo inputs (or mono…mix and match). Lots of ins and outs to manage everything. It’s a sleeper of a console AFAIC. I’ve acquired a bunch of spares over the years and still have plans to remove 8 stereo modules and add 4 more mono mic modules and 4 more mono group modules. Oh and another thing, there are 4 VCA mix groups as well…great for clean control of mix groups without summing…powerful feature.
 
Congrats on the Neotek, that's a legendary desk and a hell of an upgrade from an M3500. I had a similar "oh" moment the first time I ran a vocal through a legitimate 1073 and a tube condenser instead of my usual mid-tier interface preamps. I spent years trying to fix "thin" tracks in the box with EQ and saturation plugins, but having that headroom and weight right at the source changes everything. It’s definitely a bit of a gut punch realizing how much time you waste fighting budget gear, but once you hear that depth and separation, there’s really no going back. Enjoy the new workflow; those preamps are going to make mixing so much easier.
 
Wait, what’s the old saying ?

Ah, I remember…… “pics or it didn’t happen”. :D

I’m sure people would love to see them. I know I would.
 
Pics don't interest me as much as actually hearing the same feed going to a basic interface like maybe a Motu M4, and also through the Neotek console. Straight through, not tweaking the EQ or adding compression.

A simple acoustic guitar and singer would be great. A grand piano would be better. Two blind samples... pick which is better.
 
Back
Top