For those of you who long to be a "pro" engineer...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Harvey Gerst
  • Start date Start date
Q: What do fat broads and mopeds have in common?

A: They're both fun to ride until someone sees you.
 
Sometimes working on a guttural basis and not over-thinking every decision is a very effective way of recording. It’s actually my most preferred way of recording. Unfortunately it’s the least used method of recording these days.

Aside from the entertainment factor, I always rejoice in taking some daily nuggests like this one out of his accounts.

As dysfunctional as this whole thing seems to be, I'm beginning to think this might be a good experience for mixerman, in the grand scheme of things. He obviously has difficulty working amongst distraction. Maybe this experience could condition him to get more proficient at working through chaos?

So what would you do? Would you bail?
 
Shailat said:
Am I the only person who thinks that those sessions are the furthest away from being professional !?!?......

Having been part of the market from both sides Engineering and producing I find the whole thread extremly entertaining but NOTHING like the real life I have ever encountered.

I have yet to meet a top end producer so impotent like Willy...perhaps there are some around...I have never meet someone who sits in the producer chair (as a big name producer) and when hearing badly played percussion become speechless and answer with a "uhhh...."

I have never been on a session were the engineer walks in and just records who ever seems to be standing in the booth at the moment as thousands of $'s go down the drain. That is irresponsible at the least !!!. I cant think of a single engineer I know let things come to what they are. I say with 100% conviction that almost every engineer I know would quit by now or put his foot down with the producer and ask for set rules to work with.

Which record company lets a band come in and decide for themself (as the story goes, it seems each member decides what he wants to do for the day by himself....?!?!?!?) and let this gone on for weeks ?!?!?

I have yet to see such a session were somebody else was footing the bill (beside the band) and yet see a engineer let things roll the way they are and the producer let the recordings be so uncontrollable.
If I was the engineer or producer I would be expected to be fired.
Or in worry of my name being tarnished.

My guess is that this is all a nice fantasy. Entertaning well written but If I had to choose an engineer for a very serious project, Mixerman would not be my first choice no matter how good he can be becuase (if all this story is real) responsible he isn't. Money or no money...I would have quit myself in order to save my reputation.
Click to expand...

This is the first time on this board I completely agree with Shailat:D
 
chessrock said:
Sometimes working on a guttural basis and not over-thinking every decision is a very effective way of recording. It’s actually my most preferred way of recording. Unfortunately it’s the least used method of recording these days.
Click to expand...


That only happens at a certain point in your career. Not often in the first few years. Its when acoustic concepts become merged with the gear you use which becomes an extension of your hand and all in unity with the inpired performance youre recording.

:)
 
JuSumPilgrim said:
That only happens at a certain point in your career. Not often in the first few years. Its when acoustic concepts become merged with the gear you use which becomes an extension of your hand and all in unity with the inpired performance youre recording.
Click to expand...

I know you're probably half tongue-in-cheeck with that one . . . but I think it's really what happnes when you say "F _ _ _ the acoustic concepts, the gear, my hand, the inpired performance and everything else I've been taught to obsess over. Just point the damn mics until it sounds good, hit record and hope for the best. :D

So come on, now; would you bail?
 
chessrock said:


I know you're probably half tongue-in-cheeck with that one . . . but I think it's really what happnes when you say "F _ _ _ the acoustic concepts, the gear, my hand, the inpired performance and everything else I've been taught to obsess over. Just point the damn mics until it sounds good, hit record and hope for the best. :D

So come on, now; would you bail?
Click to expand...

Ummm...I guess I havent had the experience yet where letting the engineering happen on its own has worked. :D My guess is when that happens Ill sell all my gear, become a vegan, live out in the wilderness somewhere and sing and write songs all day.

:D
 
chessrock said:


So come on, now; would you bail?
Click to expand...


If I were hired for a major label record, didnt like the group of guys, thought they were minimally talented, didnt like the songs they wrote and didnt need the money...yeah, Id bail.


You?
 
JuSumPilgrim said:
You?
Click to expand...

Probably. I've noticed that whenever I find myself in chaotic, dysfunctional situations in the work place where it seems like they've got the monkeys at the helm, then usually there's a round of layoffs to be expected or at least the project will inevitably get ditched. One way or another, something stinks and there's usually nothing good that can come out of it.

And I'd prefer leaving voluntarily over having it done to me. Unless I think I can get some severence or unemployment out of the deal. In that case I'll stay, but if I've got something else lined up . . . hell yea, I'd jump on it.

I suppose my experiences have little direct relevence to that of a recording engineer working for a major label . . . but who knows?
 
Its interesting to me how much of a peon mixerman is in this whole story. He seems scared to talk back to the band, seems to kiss up to willy alot, is constantly playing up the angle of "me and willy the smart know-it-alls against this band of know-nothings" and while he wants desparately to be working on a record, he cant seem to get it togeather enough and take a leadership role to make anything happen.

Im also astonished at the excesses, the waste of time, money and resources. If this were smith barney, JP morgan, or prudential the project wouldve been canned in the first week. Of course unlike the financial industry, the music industry has yet to have its CEOs indicted for hyping their stocks with fake accounting. Thats much much too complicated. Theyre too busy selling CDs for $20 a pop.
Labels should bitch less about bearshare and kazaa and take a second look at the way they record records.
 
I'm not sure I'd bail....but I guaruntee that I'd have been in someone's face by now. The girls would not have been noisy in my control room more than once, even though they'd have all thought I was an asshole. And I would have told that singer "NO we're not doing vocals today because we're set up for something else" and he could kiss my ass if he didn't like it. I've found that directly and matter-of-factly telling people how it's gonna be, as long as you tell them the reasons it's gonna be that way, may not get you liked....but it will get you respected and folks will generally do what's required of them once they understand that you're not gonna take any crap even if they talk about you behind your back.
 
chessrock said:
So come on, now; would you bail?
Click to expand...

I'm currently in a pretty bad situation in a project were I would love to quit and simply can't as I am signed to a contract and I'll get sued if I left. Even worse...I spent some of the advancment :(
I Bitch to my wife though every night about quiting......

But if I were in Mixermans shoes I would sit with Willy and tell him either he sets down ground rules and make sure they are followed or I would ask for my name to be taken off the CD and forfit any credit. I would insist to use a ghost name for the engineer and protect my name as long as the sessions sounded bad. If things didnt change I would seriously consider bailing.
To bail has its own implications. You can get branded as a quitter or somebody who is not flexible or a person who runs as soon as a bit of trouble starts (many sessions dont run smoothly.....).

Yet again I ask the obvious question....why hasnt Mixerman sat the guys who hired him down and try "you hired me to help you so let me try....perhaps if you listen to me you might benefit from my experience. It's been almost a month and we have nothing to show for it. Let me roll a few ideas across to get things moving.

If its the bands money he has an obligation even more so to sit them down...If they then are still counter productive he will then have the right to bail.

__________________________________________________
Edit:

Just read the two posts above.......

Exactly what I have been saying all along but put into better words...

If he cant keep the girl friends quiet yet he can bitch to the world all day long then perhaps he isnt a doing his job (to be subtle).
He wants respect yet what has he done to achive it !?!?.
I stress the point that you dont have to take the Hollywood tough producer type to get a room quiet. How can he expect respect when he doesnt demand it for his working space and working conditions and the people working around him?.
A simple NO with assertivness whould be sufficiant.
If your going to bail then at least take a stance and don't bitch behind EVERYBODYS back.....not proffesional in any standard.....

I also dont get this record company's attitude....Were I come from my ass would have been on fire for such money wasting results....
I have no doubt they would have made it clear to me that my job is also on the line...... EVEN if I was the presidents son....

Maybe in L.A. things are run differently. Or again....is he just sharpening his (quite good) imagination on us all for entertainment.....
 
Last edited:
Shailat said:


Maybe in L.A. things are run differently.
Click to expand...

Well I agree with Shailat on the "professionalism" with mixerman current gig.

But, the comment about it being an LA thing really hits home. I think one of the purposes of the MM diaries is to show how discombuberated things have come in LA area including N Hollywood, San Diego etc. The rock and roll life styles of drug and alchohol abuse has become an accepted practice. Remember Layne Staley's PR rep hinted in an interview to encouraging or condoning Laynes contuinued use of heroine because it was part of the Alice in Chains vibe...Funny how he died less than 2 week later than that radio interview his PR person gave. Not every session is run likes MM, and I know of instances where MM has run a pretty tight ship and got it done with minimal problems from the label or any of the artists. Its hard to work in an environment where people can be so vindictive for ego sake, its truely a survival of the fittest if your working any where LA, NYC or any other hotbed of industry activity. Just my 2 cents

SoMm
 
Son of Mixerman said:
Its hard to work in an environment where people can be so vindictive for ego sake, its truely a survival of the fittest if your working any where LA, NYC or any other hotbed of industry activity.
Click to expand...

True. But in Chicago, and in any other industry, the project would have been dropped and everyone involved would be in the unemployment line by now. That's the reality of it. It seems these guys in the record industry complain about "the machine" so much, yet their careers seem to have 9 lives, drug use on the job is accepted, and they're allowed to be far more inefficient and wasteful than even government workers.

The life these guys are leading makes for such good reading because it basically is fictional -- this LA world really isn't real, and their industry isn't "real."
 
Jeez, I just read the latest installment. Dumb Ass broke his wrist. New drummer time!
 
That was some amazing shit! And right as mixerman had to name a price, very nice timing.
 
the "image" of Jeramire ajusting the "Soar" knob kills me ..Too funny...

Don
 
Yeah, you said it. I'm glad I dont hafta work for a lot of money in a high end studio where they bring you muffins and shit. Nope. Not me....I'm much more happy just working in my little home studio recording for free and working an office job with a bunch of ignorant yuppie twits and no windows and dodging bill collectors.....
 
The Days of Our Rockin' Lives

Will Dumbass get his life-saving rhythm operation? Will Fingaz find out who peed on his parka?
Will Mixerman go on a Neumann-bashing, killing rampage?

Tune in tommorrow for these dramas and more.....
 
I always wondered how a band could spend months and months in the studio making a record....now i see why.....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top