DIY Burst Finish?

  • Thread starter Thread starter timthetortoise
  • Start date Start date
I just had my kids guitar painted by a friend, his 5 or 6th guitar job.
There's a lot to what everyone's saying. Matching up even the auto paint, he showed me some major blemishes and cracking and moisture issues from not curing on his early ones...and one never cured because the clearcoat and paint never matched up....he let it cure for weeks! and it was a mess and sticky too. Had to redo the whole thing.

a helluva a lot of work was put into my sons.
the clearcoat layers alone took him 14 beers!!

beautifully completed, was probably a 25 beer job... and took numerous weeks. I even got to help sand some and polish... its gorgeuos when done...er...when done right. :D
 
from what i understand fender used auto finishes in the 50s....
err yeh but not the same auto finish as today...Most finishes used then are no longer used. Finishes have changed beyond recognition. Sure Nitro, Shellac, Oil Varnish and Spirit Varnish are all still used today on instruments today as then but auto finishes of the fifties are are thing of the past.

The whole point I'm trying to make is that specialist finishes for guitar are available easily and at very little expense. Finishing is an art in itself you might as well give yourself the best possible start by using something that is tried and tested and known to produce reliable results. There are better off the shelf finishes for guitar than auto products. Rustins Plastic Coating is one of them available over here (dont be put off by the name), Bar Top Laquer and pullover is better, any pre-cat will be better. I wouldn't put any of those on my car!!!

Finishing is one of those things you learn by doing, but the principles are the same for most. I'm still learning after 20+ years. For me the first and golden rule is test on scrap as you go. Far better to have a spoilt test piece than a spoilt guitar finish.
 
Actually, this primer isn't staying on. I guess I should have specified that I'm sanding back down to the grain every time and that the primer is basically serving as my grain fill (my bank account is in limbo, so there's no way right now for me to order anything online, which is why I have such limited resources in doing this). I know that using this latex spray isn't ideal but right now it's really the only option I have (unless the plastic spray works better, which I know I can get easily).
 
finish ?

but i still use the exact same finishes they used in the 50s...... i have gallons of it in almost all the colors.... i bought every thing i could years ago when i found out that it would be no longer avaible.....yes you are right its something you learn by doing.... and test on a scrap first....
 
I did a fade last year...

Red to Orange Fade

I stripped my Les Paul to refin it but I kept screwing up with my airbrush spattering black dye all over my wine red base. So I primed it to do a sparkle with rattle cans and it looked like crap, then I dyed the whole thing black but used water-based poly which is horrible.

So now I've got a $1000 Les Paul in parts sitting in my closet than needs to be refinned...might try it again but now it's cold and I have no time. Stupid refinishing projects...
 
Yareek said:
I did a fade last year...

Red to Orange Fade

I stripped my Les Paul to refin it but I kept screwing up with my airbrush spattering black dye all over my wine red base. So I primed it to do a sparkle with rattle cans and it looked like crap, then I dyed the whole thing black but used water-based poly which is horrible.

So now I've got a $1000 Les Paul in parts sitting in my closet than needs to be refinned...might try it again but now it's cold and I have no time. Stupid refinishing projects...

which products did you try and where do you think you or the product failed? that drum looks pretty sweet btw.

i plan to refinish a guitar at some point so i'm trying to milk this thread for what it's worth. i'm considering trying nitrocellulose lacquer in aerosol cans.
 
les paul ??

yareek.......... do you want to sell that les paul ?????? :D :D :D :D
 
les paul

sorry i should not take advantage of your bad luck........tell me exactly what you did to strip it ??? please............ maby i can help you
 
Here is one I wrote a few years ago discribing my finish process. If you want to spray color, it goes on between the sealer coat and the first clear coat.


https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=98812



By the way, shooting lacquer properly is a professional endevor. You MUST have some quite expensive safty equipment to do it right, and if you don't have the right gear (such as an explosion proof fan on your spray booth) you can die in a giant ball of fire. No shit. Get the waterbased stuff from LMI or Stew Mac. Better for your health, better for the enviroment, and very little chance of dying in a massive explosion. But even with the waterbased stuff, the process is essentially the same.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
dave..... said:
but i still use the exact same finishes they used in the 50s...... i have gallons of it in almost all the colors.... i bought every thing i could years ago when i found out that it would be no longer avaible.....yes you are right its something you learn by doing.... and test on a scrap first....


That sounds like you are probably using nitro, right? I mean, that is about the time Jon (Kosmoski at House of Kolor, whose factory was less than a mile from my house before he sold out to Valspar) invented Acrylics, but it took a few years for them to catch on. If your using nitro, your fine on guitars. I mean, the guitar industry got nitro from the auto industry back in the 1920s. Acrylics are less disirable on a guitar, though we have used them (some of those eighties hair band guitars, don't you know, and Jon's place was so close to us). The thing which has no place anywhere NEAR a guitar is Polyurethane, but that is a whole other thing.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
nitro

yep nitro .....i have a truck load of it..... some realy cool colors..... i have used some polyurethane clear on guitars.... actualy a bass body..... and yes i have all the proper equipment to spray.. spray booth, resperator,etc,etc.. :D :D
 
dave..... said:
yep nitro .....i have a truck load of it..... some realy cool colors..... i have used some polyurethane clear on guitars.... actualy a bass body..... and yes i have all the proper equipment to spray.. spray booth, resperator,etc,etc.. :D :D


Hey, you said you were a professional. I assumed you had the gear. I mean, the Fire Marshall would probably have something to say about it if you didn't, right?

Oh, and Fender uses Polyurethane these days. Doesn't mean I think it is a good idea.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
timthetortoise said:
Actually, this primer isn't staying on. I guess I should have specified that I'm sanding back down to the grain every time and that the primer is basically serving as my grain fill (my bank account is in limbo, so there's no way right now for me to order anything online, which is why I have such limited resources in doing this). I know that using this latex spray isn't ideal but right now it's really the only option I have (unless the plastic spray works better, which I know I can get easily).



If all you are looking for is a grain filler, go to a good woodworking store and get some System 3 clear coat epoxy, and some of the microbeads they sell. Many guitar builders are using epoxy fillers these days, and while I don't do it myself, I've seen some fine finishes from makers who do.

But really, you have a good guitar there. If you can't do it right, wait until you can. If you do it right, you will be quite happy with the job for the rest of your life. If you do it wrong, you will be disapointed. Do it right.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
sg

yes listen to light..... take your time do it right.... and you will love it forever.... do it wrong....and you will hate it...... nothing good ever got done quickly...... :cool:
 
Well, like I said, I need this guitar to be done fairly quickly for a recording session coming up and possibly a tour. I know that it's not going to look like a factory finish and that's fine with me, I'm all about the rough looking finishes as long as the guitar plays well (which it does). I just need something that's more durable than bare wood, which this will accomplish. I just put the first coat of white on and it's actually extremely smooth. There's one scratch barely visible but that's about the extent of flaws. By the way, I don't know why you think that primer coat was so thick. It took about two minutes to sand the whole guitar down from it. I just put two coats on and then put the white coat on. Like I said, all I'm looking for right now is something to cover up the wood. I've wanted either a black to red burst or a white finish for awhile, so if I like the white finish, I'll redo it the right way with tips from this thread when time allots.
 
ok

tim i understand your position... when you are ready to do the burst i can guide you through it :D
 
I might sell the Paul. It's got sentimental value, but it's also been ripped apart for a while. Probably going to take one last stab at refinning.

I used that Citrus Strip stuff and let it sit for a couple days while periodically going in and scraping off the goo and reapply stripper. That worked pretty well. Afterwards, I think I used mineral spirits or something to clean up the wood and did a little sanding.

I first stained it with Transfast water-soluble dye, which worked well (that's how I did the snare). But I was shooting too much dye through a cheap airbrush and got black dye all over the thing (I was shooting a burst). So I used laundry bleach and did it again. And it looked pretty sweet. I put a couple coats of Minwax sanding sealer on the guitar, and when I was level sanding went through the finish.

Decided I wanted to do a solid finish, so I tried using some cheap primer which got all crappy, so I stripped it again and used Kilz. That stuff wouldn't build high enough to level out, and after I shot some enamel-based rattle can stuff, it looked all lumpy. So I stripped it again, sanded, bleached, etc.

At this point in time, the wood was starting to absorb so much of the oil that the pores barely took dye, so I decided to put about 3 coats of black Transfast dye. It looked pretty cool, but I didn't want to do sanding sealer and ruin it again. I live in Minnesota, and it was about this time last year where it was getting too cold to finish outside. I decided to try some low-odor non-toxic Minwax Polycrylic water-based polyurethane. That stuff is horrible...it would get milky colored and gum up when trying to sand.

That's where I'm at now. I've got the Tonepros bridge and tailpiece, Schaller locking tuners, Earvana nut on a $200 fret job, custom hybrid Seymour Duncans, all new gold hardware, all new wiring kit, copper and a body that needs to be stripped again :(

My "last stab" at the guitar will either be this winter or next spring. Going to get the citrus strip again, bring the guitar to bare wood, mineral spirits and light sanding. Then I'll shoot spray on sanding sealer and level sand that (won't matter if I sand through). I'll shoot either Reranch Heritage Cherry Red if it's available or translucent blue. Might do a subtle black fade around the edge of the guitar, might not. Then I'll shoot several coats of Deft high gloss lacquer (like I used on the snare, really easy to work with). Finish up with the usual wetsanding, polishing, and buffing. Hopefully I can get it back to beautiful condition, and if not, I'll sell the parts on eBay and be happy to have some cash.

Morals of the story:
- Don't use cheap equipment and use the right equipment. Don't shoot a fade with an airbush; use a detail HVLP sprayer.
- Don't mix poly's, enamels, and lacquer.
- Don't use water-based poly.
- Set aside more time than you need on a project so you don't get frustrated when things go wrong.
 
Light said:
What the heck are you finishing that thing with? Whatever that "primer" is, get it off of your guitar.


You need to sand bare wood until it is flawless to 150-180 grit. Get the wood wet (to raise the grain), and sand it again with 150-180. Then, sand it until it is flawless with 220 grit. Once you have that, then you spray on a sealer of some sort (vinyl sealer is the right stuff, but only if you are using nitro; otherwise, shelac is great stuff, and sticks to anything). After you have one coat of sealer, you sand with 320, lightly. Fill the wood with a fill which is appropriate to your finish. Spray another coat of sealer. Then you spray your color in as few coats as possible to get the look you are after. Then you spray your clear coats.

What ever that is your are "priming" your guitar with, it is WAY to heavy for a guitar finish. It will have a negative effect on the sound, and a finish that thick on a guitar will have all kinds of problems with weather checking. If you are using an automotive finish, stop. Get rid of it, completely, and start over using the water based finish stuff from either LMI or Stew Mac. It is imperative with a guitar to have the thinest finish you can get within reason. 6-10 mils is about right. Whatever that stuff is, it looks like it is already MORE than that.

Be that as it may, whatever you are using, you need to get the WOOD sanded perfect before ANY finish goes on the guitar, period, end of story. If you don't, your finish will look like shit, every time. Get rid of that shit, and start over doing it right.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi



10mm? 1 cm? sounds kinda thick....maybe not though with varnish etc
 
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