DIY Burst Finish?

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timthetortoise

MADE OF SANDALWOOD
I'm refinishing my SG (well, re-re-re-refinishing I guess) with an actual paint job. It's my first paint job that has mattered, so I'm a little bit nervous. Right now I'm in the process of priming, sanding, priming, sanding... you know, the fun part. Anyway, the finish I'm thinking of is a cherry red base, with a burst from the back to black (so the red goes on all over, back is painted black, feathered into the neck section to fade to red, bursts black on the front, and back of headstock is black and feathered to neck). I'm basically wondering what the best way to go about doing this with spray cans would be. I want to do an all spray finish, just for availability and cost. Might have a tour coming up soon so I also want it to cure quickly.
I know about the article on Project Guitar, but am wondering if there are any other methods you guys would recommend. Thanks!
 
A sunburst (particularly one as complicated as that sounds) is, I would think, FAR too complicated for your first try at finishing. It takes quite a while to get good at it, and a bad sunburst is just wrong. To give you some idea, some of the best sunbursts in the business are on Gibson's Montana built acoustic guitars, mandos, etc. Ever since they moved the acoustic stuff out there, it has all been done by ONE guy. In the whole factory, there is only one guy who can do it well (and he really does). I would seriously consider doing a single color, at least for your first time at this. The other possibility is to do a hand rubed burst with stain, which is a bit easier, but still a major PITA. Bleh! (Personally, I hate sunbursting shit, but it does look cool...)

By the by, what "priming"? Unless you are doing a solid color, there is no reason to prime a guitar (and even then, well...) Primers are an awfully thick bit of finish to put on a guitar. Your not getting your instructions from a automobile painter are you?

At any rate, if you want to do a good job on a guitar, make sure you buy Dan Erlewine's finishing book from Stew-Mac. He does a really good job of explaining how guitar finishing is done. Despite some rough similarities, it is quite different in the details from other types of finish work.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
sunburst ??

hey.... please check out[ guitar re ranch . com] they have what you need and they have instructions...... i used there spray cans to do my 2 color sunburst on my strat.... and it is perfect......
 
Guitar Re-Ranch

They have a do it yourself burst kit. I have used their nitro laquers and can tell you they have quality stuff.

IMO - If you don't go the Guitar Re-Ranch route I wouldn't even bother to attempt a burst.
 
Good luck with the burst. A good sunburst is truly a thing to behold. I've been doing them now for over 20 years and I'm happy with about 1 in 20.....They really are hard to get right. I now put them out to a finisher I know who has a real good eye and can copy just about anything I show him.

Which ever way you go be prepared to be frustrated. A good idea is to get an old junker to practise on as you go. The hardest thing about a good burst is that it changes appearance as you go and a deal of experience is required to get them even close. Test every step on scarp first.

Good luck...
 
muttley600 said:
Good luck with the burst. A good sunburst is truly a thing to behold. I've been doing them now for over 20 years and I'm happy with about 1 in 20.....They really are hard to get right. I now put them out to a finisher I know who has a real good eye and can copy just about anything I show him.

Which ever way you go be prepared to be frustrated. A good idea is to get an old junker to practise on as you go. The hardest thing about a good burst is that it changes appearance as you go and a deal of experience is required to get them even close. Test every step on scarp first.

Good luck...
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Amen, brother, amen.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Welp, I'm gonna take the first stab at this tomorrow on an old body. Will advise as to how it turns out. Thanks for the tips.
 
Haha, I've decided to just go with a vintage white finish. I think an SG with a cream body, black pickguard, and gold hardware is going to look beautiful so that's going to make everything a lot easier. Thanks again for all the advice, probably saved me tons of headache.
 
dave..... said:
hey.... please check out[ guitar re ranch . com] they have what you need and they have instructions...... i used there spray cans to do my 2 color sunburst on my strat.... and it is perfect......
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Would you post a pic of it please? I would love to see it. :)
 
timthetortoise said:
Haha, I've decided to just go with a vintage white finish. I think an SG with a cream body, black pickguard, and gold hardware is going to look beautiful so that's going to make everything a lot easier. Thanks again for all the advice, probably saved me tons of headache.
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It will make it easier, but white is a total bitch to paint. If the body isn't perfectly sanded (and by that I mean, if you can see even a single tiny little scratch), then you need to get that PERFECT before you even think about laying down any color. Of all the solid colors, white (and cream) is one of the most demanding of all in terms of prep work. It will also be extremely demanding one your techniqure while you are sanding between coats, and also for the wet sanding and polishing. I'm not saying not to do it, just take the time to do the sanding right. You will be rewarded. The polishing is no picnic either, but it is at least better than black, as far as that goes.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Welp, I did about 3 hours' worth of hand sanding today and just got another coat of primer on. Here are pics (excuse the messy garage, currently reorganizing everything).
http://69.132.38.119/sgpaint1.jpg
http://69.132.38.119/sgpaint2.jpg

Today I did all sanding with 120 grit. Tomorrow I'm going to move to 150 and maybe 200 and hopefully have it ready for the first coat of white. I'm not looking for this to be a mirror finish or anything like that, as I still want this guitar to retain its character. Haven't touched the headstock yet because there is some repair work I need to do on the front side, so hopefully will be getting that done tomorrow and getting it caught up with the rest of the body. Let me know if there is anything I'm overlooking here or if something is glaringly wrong!
 
What the heck are you finishing that thing with? Whatever that "primer" is, get it off of your guitar.


You need to sand bare wood until it is flawless to 150-180 grit. Get the wood wet (to raise the grain), and sand it again with 150-180. Then, sand it until it is flawless with 220 grit. Once you have that, then you spray on a sealer of some sort (vinyl sealer is the right stuff, but only if you are using nitro; otherwise, shelac is great stuff, and sticks to anything). After you have one coat of sealer, you sand with 320, lightly. Fill the wood with a fill which is appropriate to your finish. Spray another coat of sealer. Then you spray your color in as few coats as possible to get the look you are after. Then you spray your clear coats.

What ever that is your are "priming" your guitar with, it is WAY to heavy for a guitar finish. It will have a negative effect on the sound, and a finish that thick on a guitar will have all kinds of problems with weather checking. If you are using an automotive finish, stop. Get rid of it, completely, and start over using the water based finish stuff from either LMI or Stew Mac. It is imperative with a guitar to have the thinest finish you can get within reason. 6-10 mils is about right. Whatever that stuff is, it looks like it is already MORE than that.

Be that as it may, whatever you are using, you need to get the WOOD sanded perfect before ANY finish goes on the guitar, period, end of story. If you don't, your finish will look like shit, every time. Get rid of that shit, and start over doing it right.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
That looks a lot like auto rattlecan primer?? If it is Like Light says remove it now you will have problems later. Do your self a favour and get the riight stuff from StewMac or any of the other guitar suppliers.

Heres my finishing routine. for solid colours or any other spray finish for that matter.

I dont sand bare wood but finish with cabinet scrapers only sanding in really tight places. If you sand back I reccommend going to at least 220 grit. Grain fill with appropriate filler and scrap or sand back depending on filler. Add sealer coats and sand back to 400 grit seal again lightly sand back.

Load up colour coat many very light coats are better than few heavy coats. de-nib between coats with 400 grit. Next load clear coats denibbing between coats. Next comes the flat sanding and burnishing. More on that when you get there.

Take your time if want a good lasting finish. You will not get that with Auto rattle cans. The result will end up with cracking, crazing and possible flaking with the grain grinning through after a while. Auto paints dry real quick but gas off for a long time shrinking as they do it. OK on steel car panels not OK on wood.
 
1) Listen to Light

2) Listen to muttley

3) Check out the re-ranch (www.reranch.com) They carry rattle cans of high quality instrument finishes. They work fine if you don't have available spray gear.

I built a Tele with a mahogany body and neck and finished it Gibson Cherry using their stuff. The results were quite satisfactory and accurate held up next to a cherry LP Jr. I believe they have an accurate Gibson ivory finish as well. They also have some useful tutorials. They ship quickly.

Important Note: Many of the chemicals you are playing with are toxic. Protect your skin and lungs.
 
finish ?

yes listen to light............. however i have used automotive finishes on guitars..... but i am a professional.....1st rule sand the wood till its perfect....2nd rule whatever sealer you use keep it as thin as possible [ almost transparent].3 rd rule let everything cure beteween coats. i let the final primer sealer dry a few weeks before final sanding....sand w/ 600 to 800 wet..... apply color coats in steps sanding after every few coats let dry about a week then sand w/ 2000 wet and buff......... thats just what works for me...... its important to keep things thin like light says 6 to 10 mil.... or you can kill resonance and tone........ good luck
 
Auto paints especially rattle can are not designed to be used on wood. They are high solid high build. Wood is an anistorpic material ie it moves independantly to every axis in varying amounts. Auto finishes are not designed to do this. On some timbers you may get lucky on many you wont. Go ahead and finish it with what you want and learn the hard way but you have been warned.

The cost of the correct type of finish is hardly anymore than auto finish why not use stuff that has been designed for the job??
 
finish ?

i use auto finishes because thats what i do... i refinish antique autos.... i only use laquer.... i did use the reranch spray cans to do the sunburst on my strat... what works for me might not work for others..... i have been doing what i do a very long time.....
 
dave, I'm not suggesting you don't know what you are doing only that auto paint is far from ideal when used on guitars. They have the wrong build qualities, the wrong polymers and solvent type as well as the wrong cured elasticty. I'm sure they work well on antique motors, thats what they were designed for. Like I said people can choose to use them if they wish and they may get good results but at least they cannot say they haven't been made aware of the possible pitfalls.
 
finish ?

muttley... i understand what you are saying......and yes they should be made aware of the possible pitfals....and like i said what works for me probably wont work for others..... i mostly do antique vette's and the fiberglass prep work is the same as i do on wood... fiberglass has to breath it will cure and shrink and expand w/ heat just like wood.....and i have a paint cabinett w/ almost all the gm colors from the 50s and 60s.... so i cant resist using them...... but thats just me..... from what i understand fender used auto finishes in the 50s.... :D :D :D
 
dave..... said:
muttley... i understand what you are saying......and yes they should be made aware of the possible pitfals....and like i said what works for me probably wont work for others..... i mostly do antique vette's and the fiberglass prep work is the same as i do on wood... fiberglass has to breath it will cure and shrink and expand w/ heat just like wood.....and i have a paint cabinett w/ almost all the gm colors from the 50s and 60s.... so i cant resist using them...... but thats just me..... from what i understand fender used auto finishes in the 50s.... :D :D :D
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can you give us a walk thru on how you finish a guitar. i read your rules above but i'm more curious about the whole process, especially the in between drying times.

also, are there any particular products that seem to work better/worse than others in your experience?
 
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