sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Yeah...not sure what was meant by "underpowered" either...that won't cause hum...just start making things freak out when driven...and if they threw a gihugic filter cap at it that's not addressing the root cause.
Can't quite tell...is there a headphone jack on the thing? Just wondering if the hum is present when no cables are connected to it (besides the power cable of course and the headphone cable...)
I'll have to look at the pics again...wondering about shielding from the main transformer...this is another one of those times I wish we lived closer to each other. I'd be happy to have a look. If the rectifiers were inadequate (the thingies that convert the AC line voltage to DC) and/or they're dying then they'll let AC through which you will hear as hum. It would be nice to get a scope one the power rails and see what's there and trace that back to see where it enters the system.
I've been watching but not commenting up until now...nice find. Never seen anything like it.
Does it have 4 springs like the Tascam RS-20/20B?
[EDIT] Just looked again...I see no headphone jack.
Can't quite tell...is there a headphone jack on the thing? Just wondering if the hum is present when no cables are connected to it (besides the power cable of course and the headphone cable...)
I'll have to look at the pics again...wondering about shielding from the main transformer...this is another one of those times I wish we lived closer to each other. I'd be happy to have a look. If the rectifiers were inadequate (the thingies that convert the AC line voltage to DC) and/or they're dying then they'll let AC through which you will hear as hum. It would be nice to get a scope one the power rails and see what's there and trace that back to see where it enters the system.
I've been watching but not commenting up until now...nice find. Never seen anything like it.
Does it have 4 springs like the Tascam RS-20/20B?
[EDIT] Just looked again...I see no headphone jack.
GCalo
Member
Forgive me but I don't follow...Are we on the same topic?
...........................
No apparently not!
Is there an echo on this thread?
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
Yeah...not sure what was meant by "underpowered" either...that won't cause hum...just start making things freak out when driven...and if they threw a gihugic filter cap at it that's not addressing the root cause.
Can't quite tell...is there a headphone jack on the thing? Just wondering if the hum is present when no cables are connected to it (besides the power cable of course and the headphone cable...)
I'll have to look at the pics again...wondering about shielding from the main transformer...this is another one of those times I wish we lived closer to each other. I'd be happy to have a look. If the rectifiers were inadequate (the thingies that convert the AC line voltage to DC) and/or they're dying then they'll let AC through which you will hear as hum. It would be nice to get a scope one the power rails and see what's there and trace that back to see where it enters the system.
I've been watching but not commenting up until now...nice find. Never seen anything like it.
Does it have 4 springs like the Tascam RS-20/20B?
[EDIT] Just looked again...I see no headphone jack.
Hey Cory,
I knew you were hovering near-by.
Again, thanks for looking in and wanting to help out. I too haven't seen anything like it when I picked it up (again, for next to nothing). As you know I've been toying with getting a spring verb, for some time, going back and forth about it but when I came across this one, I said "heck, it's too good to pass up and I can always sell it back if it doesn't work for me". (Let me say now that I've been pretty good at being responsible with the gear buying, which is becoming quite rare now). I've sold my last digital verb that I had 'cause I didn't really like the sound of it. I found myself wanting an option to add space to my recordings but it had to be natural sounding. I got this model under the assumption that I'd probably not think much of it but then I've heard it. I had a chance to compare against other's in this category and was kinda surprised. I'd characterize it as being full, smooth, dark, slightly twangy, grainy with long decay. It added something "old" to the recordings rather than a "clinical" smooth, shiny verb. I liked it very much. This one's a keeper me thinks. I think it was solely made for the japan market, uniquely made. I mean who puts heavy metal knobs on things anymore ..and those VU's? Nice. I'm not sure how many springs it has. Will try to get some close up photos for you. There's really no docs on it anywhere, nor info. Again, thanks again friend. I think we've got to tone down our verbiage. The mods will shut us down.
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
Cory, et al: Here's some better, closer and higher resolution photos (outside host). BTW, I don't know what the hell that "tech" did to that large capacitor, burn marks etc... Maybe a "handyman's special"?
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Yeah...Daniel, you know I've been resisting the urge to send you a "SO...um...you DID end up getting a spring 'verb..." email.
I can totally see why you went for this one though. Looks like substantial build quality. Nice features.
Yep...4 springs like the RS-20 family which helps it to more evenly cover the audio spectrum.
I really like my spring reverb and part of the reason is because it does what it does...there isn't a way to adjust the decay, pre-delay, reflections, etcetcetcetc...put it in the loop, setup the mix, I know how it sounds so I know if its what I want before I put it in, and it sounds nice and natural.
Soooo...that cap that was put in place there...looks like something that got pulled off the shelf, and who KNOWS if it is in any satisfactory condition. Based on how it was installed and the physical appearance of the components itself I'd be pulling it. Not trying to push you against your comfort zone, but just for the sake of edumacation, the two white wires from the transformer to the PCB carry the stepped-down AC. Then that should go straight to the 4 diodes that are lined up in the back right of the board (as you face the front of the unit). Those 4 diodes change the AC voltage to DC...that's your "rectifier". It works because diodes only let current go one direction and if you have AC current essentially going back and forth (alternating) and the diodes only let it go through one way it is only the "forward current" that gets through and that there is DC current on the other side. Now, that ugly ugly cap...I have no idea where that was added in the circuit since the traces are on the other side. If you get a wild hair you can remove the 4 screws on the PCB, turn it over and take a pic. It should be on the output side of the rectifier. The two larger caps near the rectifer...those are your stock main filter caps and those could be oversized if ever you wanted to replace them...I have a feeling this is all more than you want to get into which comes back to me wishing lived closer together.
But anyway...
I also wonder if it could be a good measure to have a shield in between the transformer and the PCB. I'm not savvy to how EMI radiates off tranny coils, so that orientation may be just fine there, and the rest of what I see looks well put together. So I guess I wonder if at least some new filter caps on the PCB and a new set of diodes for the rectifier and pulling that add-on filter cap out might help. I have a feeling there was a problem with hum and so, as you recounted, they threw a big ol' filter cap at the problem which is akin to shoving chewing gum in a leak y'know? I expect that was relatively hum-free unit when it left the factory and it can be so again. Anyway, if ever you were interested in doing at least the new filter caps and rectifier diodes it would be a relatively short project and cost around $5.
BTW...anybody else notice that that unit appears to be discrete amp circuitry? Neat.
I can totally see why you went for this one though. Looks like substantial build quality. Nice features.
Yep...4 springs like the RS-20 family which helps it to more evenly cover the audio spectrum.
I really like my spring reverb and part of the reason is because it does what it does...there isn't a way to adjust the decay, pre-delay, reflections, etcetcetcetc...put it in the loop, setup the mix, I know how it sounds so I know if its what I want before I put it in, and it sounds nice and natural.
Soooo...that cap that was put in place there...looks like something that got pulled off the shelf, and who KNOWS if it is in any satisfactory condition. Based on how it was installed and the physical appearance of the components itself I'd be pulling it. Not trying to push you against your comfort zone, but just for the sake of edumacation, the two white wires from the transformer to the PCB carry the stepped-down AC. Then that should go straight to the 4 diodes that are lined up in the back right of the board (as you face the front of the unit). Those 4 diodes change the AC voltage to DC...that's your "rectifier". It works because diodes only let current go one direction and if you have AC current essentially going back and forth (alternating) and the diodes only let it go through one way it is only the "forward current" that gets through and that there is DC current on the other side. Now, that ugly ugly cap...I have no idea where that was added in the circuit since the traces are on the other side. If you get a wild hair you can remove the 4 screws on the PCB, turn it over and take a pic. It should be on the output side of the rectifier. The two larger caps near the rectifer...those are your stock main filter caps and those could be oversized if ever you wanted to replace them...I have a feeling this is all more than you want to get into which comes back to me wishing lived closer together.
But anyway...
I also wonder if it could be a good measure to have a shield in between the transformer and the PCB. I'm not savvy to how EMI radiates off tranny coils, so that orientation may be just fine there, and the rest of what I see looks well put together. So I guess I wonder if at least some new filter caps on the PCB and a new set of diodes for the rectifier and pulling that add-on filter cap out might help. I have a feeling there was a problem with hum and so, as you recounted, they threw a big ol' filter cap at the problem which is akin to shoving chewing gum in a leak y'know? I expect that was relatively hum-free unit when it left the factory and it can be so again. Anyway, if ever you were interested in doing at least the new filter caps and rectifier diodes it would be a relatively short project and cost around $5.
BTW...anybody else notice that that unit appears to be discrete amp circuitry? Neat.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Couple other comments...
I get nervous when a cap is mounted with tape and such like that, and furthermore mounted against sharp metal...that opens the opportunity for shorting with the chassis as the plastic coating on the can of the cap ain't bulletproof.
Another thing, the reason I say that that add-on cap should be on the output side of the rectifier is that if it is in between the tranny and the rectifier then it can cause sluggish response for the amp circuitry...not that this is a power amp...it is all line amplification, but how fast the amplifier can respond (slew rate) to dynamic changes in the demand is still a factor...generally faster is desired...translates to more "accurate" sound...
I'm probably getting in over my head and I hope others will chime in but it is definitely an odd looking thing.
I get nervous when a cap is mounted with tape and such like that, and furthermore mounted against sharp metal...that opens the opportunity for shorting with the chassis as the plastic coating on the can of the cap ain't bulletproof.
Another thing, the reason I say that that add-on cap should be on the output side of the rectifier is that if it is in between the tranny and the rectifier then it can cause sluggish response for the amp circuitry...not that this is a power amp...it is all line amplification, but how fast the amplifier can respond (slew rate) to dynamic changes in the demand is still a factor...generally faster is desired...translates to more "accurate" sound...
I'm probably getting in over my head and I hope others will chime in but it is definitely an odd looking thing.
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
Cory, your words and your interest, in my latest acquisition, are very, very much appreciated. I recall some years back when you were just getting into it and, looking back now and to current state, the amount of knowledge you've accumulated is inspiring.
With regard to the "SO...um...you DID end up getting a spring 'verb..." part.... Believe it or not, I heard your words plain and clear, even prior to you posting. I know you wouldn't let me live it down so I had to explain.. Didn't wanna impose with an email and really didn't know I'd be going any further than the general 100V question...
So.......... Lots of the stuff is way over my head, not my comfort zone, you're right but... I do understand the general points you're making tho and it makes sense.
How do I say this........ um......... if you feel it'd make sense to send the unit out to you let me know...
With regard to the "SO...um...you DID end up getting a spring 'verb..." part.... Believe it or not, I heard your words plain and clear, even prior to you posting. I know you wouldn't let me live it down so I had to explain..
Didn't wanna impose with an email and really didn't know I'd be going any further than the general 100V question... So.......... Lots of the stuff is way over my head, not my comfort zone, you're right but... I do understand the general points you're making tho and it makes sense.
How do I say this........ um......... if you feel it'd make sense to send the unit out to you let me know...
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Sending PM.
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
PM received and sent!
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
And to this I say, that's very kind. Nothing but heavy helpings of fanaticism, sleep deprivation, benevolent helps from many, many people, and a good number of tragic mistakes. Yep...that's all it seems to take to be a novice who can talk like somebody who's smarter.
Honestly, I need to be careful...I'm pretty consistently operating at the limit of my abilities.
BTW, was that a craigslist find?
It looks heavy.
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
That part is so freeing 'cause I love the set-it-and-forget-it gear. It just sounds nice and natural. I'm predisposed to OCD so anything with too many bells & whistles is a no no.
I put out a wanted ad and got a reply from someone who had a HAWK?
Yeah, a head scratcher to be sure. I kinda dove in, drove out, guy demoed it for me and I took it. Got a freebie with it - a 3040 Fostex noise reduction unit that I have absolutely no use for. Yes, I was surprised how heavy it was... Probably more so than the TASCAM / FOSTEX equivalents. Got more iron in it than iron man.