Winshield or Pop screen?

[Dracon]

I asked this in the recording techniques forum, but I believe it's more appropriate here.

I need to stop proximity to the mic and the (poping) noise when saying words with the letter "p" or "f". Should I use both or just one of them?

 

[OneRoomStudios]

If by winshield you mean the windscreen, then for plosives (popping) you only need the pop filter. The windscreen is for out door recording where wind can be a problem. As far as proximity effect, that is a characteristic of the microphone - the only way to stop it is to move away from the mic or use an omni mic.

 

[Dracon]

Ooops! Did I call it windshield

So then a pop screen. I've seen pop screens made of mesh and some made of like cloth. I know there is probably a difference but, I have no clue what.

 

[Innovations]

Ooops! Did I call it windshield

So then a pop screen. I've seen pop screens made of mesh and some made of like cloth. I know there is probably a difference but, I have no clue what.

Both have fans. Nylon ones you can make yourself cheaply. But they will not stop proximity effect. You can also play with mic positioning to stop plosives too. Most plosive energy comes in about a 15-20 degree cone from the mouth. A slightly to the side position will greatly reduce plosives.

 

[Richard Monroe]

Proximity effect isn't something you stop, it's something you use. Using proximity is one of the keys to vocals, both live and recorded. As far as pop filters, nylon works, and can be made cheap. A 5" embroidery hoop ($3.00 or so), 2 layers of panty hose, a coathanger, and you're good to go. Steel (example-Stedman 101- about $50) doesn't muffle the highs as much as nylon. The best ones I've used are fine mesh steel, like the ones that come with B.L.U.E. mics. They are high priced suckers, though, as they go.-Richie

 

[Dracon]

Most plosive energy comes in about a 15-20 degree cone from the mouth. A slightly to the side position will greatly reduce plosives.

Uhmmm..! Is this 15-20 degree at any angle? I've been recording straight into the mic, about 1"-1 1/2" away. However, since I move around ('cause to sit still for 1/2hour is really hard) some it's hard to keep the right distance.

What angle do I need? Am I to assume that when my nose is pointing straight to the body of the mic, I'm at 0 degrees azimuth or do you consider that 90 degrees azimuth? In respect to that position you say that 15-20 offset will cause the greatest plosive energy?

 

[Dracon]

Proximity effect isn't something you stop, it's something you use.

Hey I think that's something I can build - the pop screen.
On proximity, how much is too much and how little is not enough? 1 inch, 4 inches.

I'm speaking into a Sennheiser E835 and I am speaking in a low barritone to a high bass pitch. When I get too close to the mic I get that effect when you turn the volume too high on a cheap pair of speakers.
Do you guys need the setting of the mixer (gain, main mix, level, etc)?

 

[Richard Monroe]

I think you are experiencing 2 things- 1. proximity effect, where bass is boosted when you get close to the mic, and 2.- the simple fact that when you get close to a mic there is an exponential increase in volume. These two effects combined have a tendency to overload components in the signal chain, from the preamp to the headphones or speakers you are using to hear it.. This causes the nasty distortion you are talking about, which is called clipping. There are many ways to skin that cat, my man. Here are the standards- 1. Keep the singer 6-12" from the mic. This works if they don't vary the volume too much, and don't use proximity as a tool- In other words, good singers who ere clueless about microphones. 2. The singer lowers his or her volume as they approach the mic, using the bass boost as an effect. They may move in and out of the proximity field on purpose. In other words, singers who *do* have a clue about microphones. 3. You use a nifty item/necessary evil called a compressor. The more exteme version is a limiter. This could be a software plugin, a standalone haedware item, or built in to a preamp or effects box. Compression simply limits dynamic excursions, bringing the quietest and loudest parts of any signal closer together. It can be a Godsend, and it can also be used to stomp on perfectly good music that didn't need it. Compression can make mediocre music sound good, and great music sound awful.
Once you hook up the nice compressor, make sure the rapper shoves the cheap dynamic down his throat. Somebody will like that sound. Don't forget to crank the compressor!-Richie

 

[noisedude]

Build a windshield. It'll be fun! I just posted on proximity in your other thread before reading here - basically just experiment. When you find something good, right it down or remember it.

 

[Innovations]

Hey I think that's something I can build - the pop screen.
On proximity, how much is too much and how little is not enough? 1 inch, 4 inches.

I'm speaking into a Sennheiser E835 and I am speaking in a low barritone to a high bass pitch. When I get too close to the mic I get that effect when you turn the volume too high on a cheap pair of speakers.
Do you guys need the setting of the mixer (gain, main mix, level, etc)?

The 'effect when you turn the volume too high on a cheap pair of speakers' seems to me be to be clipping. Proximity efffect is simply exaggerated bass. clipping is when the signal exceeds the line limit so the equipment simply cuts off what is higher. The result is that your signal resembles a square wave more than a sine wave. A speaker unable to handle the signal strength would do the same thing.

 

[kid klash]

...Most plosive energy comes in about a 15-20 degree cone from the mouth. A slightly to the side position will greatly reduce plosives.

Yes - or position the mic so it's in-line with, and above, the vocalist. Do the final positioning by placing the singers mouth 4" away from the mic, with the capdule of the mic aimed down at a 30 degree angle, right at the vocalists' mouth. The plosive "puff" of air goes under the capsule, not into it, even though the mic is aimed directly at the vocalists' mouth.

If the vocalist moves around, tape a pencil or pipecleaner to the mic so the end of it sticks out in front of the capsule and represents where the vocalists' mouth should be.

 

[turnitdown]

When I get too close to the mic I get that effect when you turn the volume too high on a cheap pair of speakers.
Do you guys need the setting of the mixer (gain, main mix, level, etc)?

Sounds like clipping of the preamp.... adjust your preamp gain (sometimes called trim) to handle your lousdst peaks w/o distortion.

 

[paddyponchero]

Uhmmm..! Is this 15-20 degree at any angle? I've been recording straight into the mic, about 1"-1 1/2" away. However, since I move around ('cause to sit still for 1/2hour is really hard) some it's hard to keep the right distance.

What angle do I need? Am I to assume that when my nose is pointing straight to the body of the mic, I'm at 0 degrees azimuth or do you consider that 90 degrees azimuth? In respect to that position you say that 15-20 offset will cause the greatest plosive energy?

I find the pop filter helps to keep the correct distance.

"to sit still for 1/2hour is really hard"
- When you sing sitting down you constrict the movement of your diaphragm and it is much more difficult to control the breath - this may exaggerate the plosives

Windscreens are made from a dense material I find that they attenuate the highs, and because they are right ver the mic cause internal reflections, sometimes even ringing. A couple of nylon stockings over the mic sounds better - but best to make a pop filter with a coathanger and stocking.

 

[Dracon]

..... Lot's and lots of useful information given by -Richie

Hey Richie - Okay?!!!
1. I'm the singer and I know that microphones capture my voice.
2. I'm not singing, I'm talking in a low voice.
3. When I'm more than 1 1/2 inches from the mic my voice is hardly audible and if I turn the gain or Level up I get a hissing sound (which I'm trying to minimize).
4. I did build the Pop screen (with a Nylon) and it does stop the plosive (is that right?) sounds, and it helps me stay away from the mic. However, now my voice is to soft when music is added.

Help suggestions?

 

[Dracon]

Yes - or position the mic so it's in-line with, and above, the vocalist. Do the final positioning by placing the singers mouth 4" away ..... lots and lots more good advice that I will endup writing down.... QUOTE]

Hey Thanks! So basically I have no idea what the hell I'm doing.
I'm trading my UB802 for a Yamaha MG102 to stop that hissing sound comming from the UB802. I know, that other people on other forums told me so. No love loss here though.

The reason you ask, my wife is so happy with the results that I told her that if we spent $50 more we could get rid of that hissing sound with the Yamaha.

 

[Dracon]

Hey guys thanks! If nothing else at least now I know what plosive and clipping means pertaining to recording.

I'll test my yamaha tommorrow, and turn the gain up a little more and see if I can hear the hissing sound.

 

[noisedude]

The Behringer shouldn't be hissing - they have really quiet preamps. Are you sure everything's set up right? Sure??

Read this article on gain structure before you go any further:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct00/articles/soundcard.htm

And bear in mind that the weak link in your chain is not the mixer but your soundcard.

 

[xstatic]

Where is there a Behringer that doesn't hiss? This I gotta hear

 

[turnitdown]

I don't know about that model Behringer, but on some models, there is a 'trim" knob, and a "Gain" fader..... if the "trim" (or attenuation) knob is set to low (clipping light never blinks), and you are trying to compensate by moving the fader up all the way, HIS WILL HAPPEN.... AND THE PROBLEM YOU ARE HAVING WILL OCCUR.... really.....

 

[turnitdown]

I just looked at that mixer's picture...
You need to read your manual, and learn how to use the little black GAIN knob on top, in addition to the grey/white level knob on the bottom.....

I used to use a Behringer board's preamps, before I got my Symetrix, and I never had hiss or gain issues if I set the controls right. Is your EQ-Hi knob cranked up? That could cause hiss too...

(Actually, it was as quiet as m Symetrix, just didn't sound quite as transparent...)

I'd like to say "Hope this helps", but I KNOW this will help...