Which set-up to pursue?

[marshall409]

Alright guys I've finally decided I am serious about pursuing music production as a hobby, possibly a small job ( I know kids who would pay to lay down Metallica covers lol) and also possibly a career. It's been a dream of mine to build a small, simple, studio for a long time now, and it's starting to look possible. Here's my dilemma: Little money, less than perfect building ooppurtunities, and little experience. As far as I've done is recording multiple bass and guitar tracks one at a time in Audactiy, and also a few sessions of screwing around with a nice little cassest 4 track at school. If you haven;t guessed, I;m young, but am very serious about this. Here are my two setups I am considering, both with some common components.

What I have to work with.

Two rooms, one is a living room/den which isnt used much. I plan to keep my desktop in there, an run the recording through this or thrrough a standalone 8 track. Next door, through a drywall, is a small bedroom, big enough to fit my band (drums, bass/vox, me on guitar) comfortably with some equipment. I plan on doing almost all recording in here, since it is very quiet to me, much more so than teh den.
Both rooms are in a basement, about 3 inches off the concrete with a semihollow wood elevation and thin cheap carpet.

I have a 8 channel Gemini mixer, i know its pitiful compared to what most these threads talk about, but this is a small scale, low budget studioi plan. I plan on using this mixer just for drums, as i imagine they will use a few mics.

PLAN 1

Live Room

DRUMS-a few nice mics, into the mixer, into stereo into the final source(later eplained)

Guitar-Mic'd or hardwired? Either way also into its own input of the final source. Same with bass and vocals essentially.

Now....

SETUP 2
Should i invest in a ubs/firewire interface for the pc in the next room? would it be better to record to a harddrive multitrack(~350-400 dollars) and then mix down to the pc?

SOO setp 1 or 2?

Obviiously some things need not asked such as what mics, monitors, etc.
i can find tha information else where.

WHEW
longest post ive ever made.

thank you very much and very soorry for the REDICULlously long post.

Adam

 

[JeffLancaster]

I guess what I'd do is get a multi-channel audio interface and record the individual tracks into the PC. You could use the pre-amps in the mixer initially, and perhaps consider better ones down the road. Also, the mixer could be used for monitoring while tracking to the computer.

Not the only way to do things, just my 2 cents

 

[marshall409]

Thanks

Thanks Jeff. I think I've decided on that path. I'm going to work on picking up this usb mixer and use that as an interface. So so far here is my plan.

Instruments/Vox-Into the usb mixer

drums- though the gemini mixer to sort out the mics and then the stereo outs on that into the usb mixer

>>>>

Cubase(included with mixer) on computer for mixing, recording, mastering,
>>>>>>

Out to monitors in next room by computer/and also into a headphone amp to be worn by performing musicians.
_______________

Wow this would be so great to just have it all drop into my lap. But I have lots of work to do. I'm still not sure about the computer, whether opr not ill be able to dedicate one to recording, and whether or not it will be in the next room or have to be treated to keep quiet during recording.

Anymore help is greatly appreciated.

PS

as for mics, I'm not extremely picky. I need a few for drums, possibly some for micing guitar amps, though ill probably feed guitars directly, and also 1 or maybe 2 good vox mics (from what ive heard it seems SM57's or 58's, not suree what they are called, are a good chocie for solid, reliable, long lasting mics. would they be helpful in other situations? and if not, what should i look for in drums and acoustic guitar mics?)

THANK YOU IN ADVACNE VERY MUCH

Adam Marshall

 

[JeffLancaster]

Looks like a nice little usb mixer/interface to get started with. Seem to have the features you need at a very low price - it will certainly get you going down the road until you gain more experience and decide to trade up. If I was using that, I'm not so sure I would go through the Gemini first. You can probably record your drums using the four XLR inputs on the Alesis unit (one mic on the kick, one on the snare, and two overheads). You'd probably be best to record these as separate tracks into your computer so you could manipulate them separately when mixing. The fact that you get Cubase with that unit is a plus - that'll be a great program to get you going.

There are as many opinion on mics as there are people with opinions - have a look through the mic forum and you'll see what I mean. But for what you want to do, it sounds like you'll need 4 to 5 mics. Perhaps a couple of SM57 or SM58s for kick and snare drums, a couple nice small diaphragm condensors for drum overheads (and for acoustic guitar), and a large diaphragm condensor for vocals. With those mics you should be ready for most anything, including experimentation with different combinations on guitar amps, etc. You'll probably want to record bass direct (you can use one of the line-ins on the mixer, and perhaps consider adding a good di box at some point).

Your computer will be noisy like you said, but there are ways to fix that. Some folks have come up with fancy water cooling schemes, and others just put them in another room. I built an isolation box for mine, it serves dual-duty as one leg of my mixing/equipment desk.

 

[marshall409]

Thanks alot!

Thanks alot Jeff. I wasn't entirely sure about the mixer though......will the usb send out each channel (six i believe) individually or is it just another stereo out? that would suck but from what i can tell it will show up in Cubase as multiple inputs? That would be absolutely perfect. If it doesn't work out, I guess I'll have to go with a digitall all-in-one and then transfer the tracks to a computer. Now that i think about it....what would be any disadvantage other than recording stuff and then running it into the computer room next door to listen and transfer and then mix with cubase still? Sound would obviously be greatly lowered...and theres cost too...seems obvious that more inputs=higher price.

Still thinking...and open to suggestions.

To sum it all up....Computer interface or all-in-one harddrive digital multitrack recorder?

Adam

 

[marshall409]

DAMMIT! this thread says what i feared most. The computer would not see each input individually. What the hell good does this do me!? I already have a good enough mixer, i could just plug that into my computer and have the same thing!

So now what I'm looking for is the best incomputer interface or an all-in-one recorder. I dont really think 4-tracks simultaneous is gonna do it for me. I'm gonna go for 8 tracks...Damn this sucks. I thought I'd found what i was looking for. So in closing again, I'll sum up my situation,

I NEED TO RECORD 8 TRACKS+ DIGITALLY CHEAP

lol

Help

 

[JeffLancaster]

You know, Adam, my assumption is that it will transmit the data from each individual channel to your PC, but we all know what happens when you just ASSUME something, right. I took a quick look on the Alesis website and couldn't find a definite answer - perhaps someone else knows this, or you could contact Alesis with this question. It looks like they have a firewire version of this mixer, which states that it DOES transmit each channell's data separately. The firewire version would probably perform better anyway, but of course it's more money.

To be honest wit you, I think a better solution altogether (if you can afford it) would be to get this and skip the external mixer altogether. This will give you 8 channels of input with pretty decent preamps, and it comes with Cubase as well. This unit has recieved great reviews from many of the folks who have used it. Perhaps you could sell the Gemini unit to help offset the cost. You would then do all your recording directly to a PC (not a dedicated hard disk recorder), and do all your mixing "in the box". In my opinion this would give you the most flexibility and quality for your money.

 

[JeffLancaster]

DAMMIT! this thread says what i feared most. The computer would not see each input individually.

OK looks like while I was busy typing you found the answer. Seriously, then, look into the Firepod.

 

[marshall409]

Yes...

Yes that is what i was thinking...That particular model is a little too expensive for me at the moment, but like all my past adventures into expense, my annual birthday bonuses could probably get this all off the ground. what about something like this? I think its the same thing basically...cheaper, I've also heard alot about it. I'm assuming lag is an issue with these kind of set ups? or no?

PCI installs are do-able. Overall, are they going to be generally cheaper than external boxes using firewire/usb?

thanks alot again

Adam

 

[OhSh1rt]

2x Delta 44 or 1x 1010(lt)
with preamps or a mixer (or two, dare I say Behringer?)


-jeffrey

 

[marshall409]

Sorry

Sorry about the double post. No....selling the Gemini isn't really an option, I can't imagine I'd get much for it anyway. As another youngster on here somewhere was talking about...if "our" studios finally get started, we would rule the school. I'm thinking eventually I could wind up making a few bucks recording friends. Lots of kids my age around here are in multiple bands. So...cost would probably be most offset by this approach. Friggin Nintendo Revolution probably be coming out around the same time as my brithday/summer/when i want to do this.....oh well. Drifting off topic here. The firepod gave me a template of what i need. thank you very much for the suggestion and all your help.

Adam





PS here is that link again incase anyone noticed...the Delta 1010 which I've heard mentioned before here is on sale at musiciansfriend incase its a big deal or anything, i dont know

 

[marshall409]

To OhSh1rt

to OhSh1rt,

where im looking, the 1010 is 299 and two 66's would be 300 also so...ya to me it seems the 1010 would be logical? or ami i missing something. Thanks

Adam

 

[JeffLancaster]

Yes that is what i was thinking...That particular model is a little too expensive for me at the moment, but like all my past adventures into expense, my annual birthday bonuses could probably get this all off the ground. what about something like this? I think its the same thing basically...cheaper, I've also heard alot about it. I'm assuming lag is an issue with these kind of set ups? or no?

PCI installs are do-able. Overall, are they going to be generally cheaper than external boxes using firewire/usb?

thanks alot again

Adam

Yes, that Delta 1010 is another great option. And at that refurbished price, you're getting a little more bag for your buck. You'll need preamps with that one of course, but you could use the ones on your Gemini to start with. I don't think firewire vs. PCI wll make much difference as far as either performance or price.

 

[marshall409]

Hmmmm....

Yes. The refurbished price does seem like a great deal. Hopefully a refurb model is still available when i need it. If not, the 66's would end up cheaper. But that would require two pci slots correct?

Adam

 

[JeffLancaster]

Yes, two 66's would require two slots, but they are designed to work side by side. If you can swing a 1010 though, I think it's handy to have all you're connections in a nice rack unit, rather than so many things sticking out the back of the PC.

 

[marshall409]

Ya

I agree it would be nice to sit the thing right next to you (I know its supposed to be racked) but what about this other thing? The one thats all the same stuff in card form, no box. Where is it.....there this appears to me to be the exact same thing no? And with a mixer being required anyway...wouldnt it be more convenient to "set and forget" the inputs and do the work on the mixer? It seems to me like if I'm going to have to have the mixer sitting right infront of me, having the box there too isnt going to much good. If i use the box type, i have cables going from the card, to the box, to the mixer., most likely never to be tampered. If i set up the card one right the first time (lol) then i have cables from the card directly to the mixer. Seems easier. what does the box have over the card? Price is a big issue here remember.

Thanks

Adam

 

[JeffLancaster]

Well, with the external box, you will only have one cable from box to computer. Yes, you'll also need one cable from each mixer channel you use into the box, but it wil be much neater if you don't have the tangled mess right behind you're computer. Secondly, I have heard the argument that having the actual a/d coverters in the box outside the computer is better because you won't get noise/interference from the PC components inside the computer (don't know if this is really an issue in reality, but I have heard this). Finally, I'm betting that at some point in the future you will ditch the mixer in favor of high quality preamps; probably rack mount units themselves, and it will be more convenient to house it all in a rack and patch everything there. It's all up to you of course, but that's just what I'm thinking.

 

[marshall409]

I see

Well, I've got lots to think about. I can get a small homemade rack from a friend i know. It would be cool to get some nice preamps and the whole thing in a rack so i can stash it away if need be if i cant get my hands on a computer that i can take over. I'll be checking back a bit later into things once i find out a bit more about my situation. one more thing though.

i mentioned lag in an above post, i dont believe anyone said anything about it.
if anyone knows if this will be an issue id appreciate it as teh computer i will most likely end up using will not be a monster machine. probably a modest ~2002-2004 family pc, possibly with a ram upgrade and obviously a soundcard upgrade . Thank you guys very much for your help and i now know exactly where to come for future questions. it will be a while, later in the year, but i will be sure to start a nice new thread once i figure out what im doing.

Adam

 

[JeffLancaster]

I record direct to my computer, and have no issue with latency (lag). I am using a Seasound Solo (PCI interface) into an AMD Athlon 2200 XP powered system with 512 Mb RAM. I have two fast hard drives (7200 RPM Seagate Barracuda's); one is for the operating system and programs and the second is dedicated to recording the audio data. I built this system a couple years ago and it was fairly state of the art then, but this would not be an expensive system today. If you can get your hands on something with similar specs you should be just fine.

 

[marshall409]

okay

that system sounds doable from what i have to work with. what im on right now is a 1.7 Celeron M with 256 ram soon to be upped to a solid gig. A new hard drive seems a must, as im needing to start deleting stuff already. thanks for the advice