Original Tune "Howl" - Mixing and Production Critique

[cmharwood89]

Hello all,

I just recently picked up my home recording hobby again, and several years of rust have accumulated, so I'm forgetting things and making mistakes all over again.

This is an original, written and recorded for the February Album Writing Month (FAWM). Over the past couple of days, I decided to try my hand at recording and mixing it "properly."



Some production/performance disclaimers:

• Some of the performance leaves a bit to be desired. The vocals, in particular, could use a re-tracking in a few passages.
• This was my first time programming drums. They're busy, but I tried to make that business a feature rather than a bug.

Looking for any feedback on what works, what doesn't, and what needs tweaking.

-----------------------------

I'll document everything I did below. It's more information than you need to know, but since I'm asking for detailed mix feedback, I figured it'd be best to have it written down.

Recording notes:

• Vocals recorded with a Warm Audio WA-47jr LDC six about 7 inches off my chin with a pop filter. Recorded in a large, rectangular room with vaulted ceilings, wooden floors, area rug, and furniture. I also threw a heavy wool blanket over a stand directly behind the mic.
• Electric guitars run through a modeling amp (Boss Katana) and from there into my interface
• Acoustic guitar tracked with the WA-47jr aimed at the 12th fret in cardioid patter plus a stereo X-Y pair of small-diaphragm condensers. The stereo pair gave a nice wide image and attack, and the LDC brought a bit more body.
• Drums from EZDrummer 3, Studio kit, main room. Ambience mics muted.
• Bass and piano tracks from Band-in-a-box realtracks libraries.

Mixing/Production notes:

• All mixing in Reaper
• Cleanish electric guitars were high-passed around 170Hz, with a 3dB scoop at 350 Hz. Two stage compression (1.5:1 followed by 5:1) to level and tame transients.
• Heavier overdriven guitars double-tracked, panned L/R, and rolled off below 150Hz. Single 3:1 compression set to remain active almost all the time (~3dB gain reduction), with the goal of maintaining a thick sound through the chorus.
• Acoustic guitar tracks bussed together and processed with EQ to roll off below 120Hz, with a scoop at 750Hz. Moderate compression to maintain volume.
• Main vocals high-passed at 120 Hz and hit with 2-4 dB cuts at 750 Hz, 4 kHz, and 9 kHz. I have a tendency towards a bit of a nasal honk that I struggle to EQ out using condensers, though the Warm Audio has proved to be the most forgiving of my mics. Light compression and de-esser (Lisp).
• Background vocals EQ'd to move them to the back of the mix. Then I disabled BV master sends and let them play through the reverb bus only. Makes 'em kinda spooky.
• All of the instruments + background vocals were bussed to a shared reverb. Kick and bass reverb sends were dialed waaay back, so they're mostly dry. I used convolution reverb (ReaVerb) with the Bricasti M7 IRs from Samplicity. I used an IR with a long tail to get the big atmosphere I was going for.
• Main vocals sent to a second reverb. I used the same IR, but stretched it to shorten the tail to about 60% of its original length.
• Master bus compression (very light) and TDL Kotelnikov as a limiter to tame the peaks and get an LRA around 9.
• Acoustic guitar and piano bits are sprinkled into the background. A bit tough to pick out if you don't know that they're there, but I don't want to make them too obvious.
• The echoey background vocals are also sprinkled in for dramatic effect, most noticeably in the bridge and final chorus.

 

[Eric V]

Good song, and I really liked the vocals. Seemed a little louder in certain passages, maybe a bit more compression?

 

[Slouching Raymond]

A good song. Vocals were good. Guitar playing was good.
The programmed drums seemed a little tame to me. All the hits were at the same level.
Then towards the end I wanted all the parts to be more glued together.
This is just what went through my mind.
Who am I to judge. You should hear my crap.

 

[mark skinner]

Great song with impressive guitar work ! I thought the main vocal melody lines were fantastic and fit the chord structure nicely. I really like the way you documented everything. Sometimes I'll listen to an older recording and wonder how I got a certain tone and feel and have no clue. Sometimes I'll think "don't ever do that again". I'm going to start documenting as you did.
Great job on the mix . I do think you could improve it though and give the song a little more punch. I think I would try and pull the vocals back in the mix a little and let the backing punchy instruments come forward a little. Maybe just a touch more reverb or delay on the vox would help ?? Anyway , I enjoyed the hell out of it. I think you are going to slide back into recording Very quickly. mark

 

[PorterhouseMusic]

Yeah - I agree with the other comments here. I really like this song. I think you've got something special here in terms of the song itself. Because of that - I think the recording/production deserves some polishing.

I absolutely agree that the drums could be improved by getting something that sounds more natural. IMO - the kit you chose and some of the drum parts themselves were a little distracting. The nice thing here is that you used EZDrummer 3 and Reaper - which means if you wanted to you could make changes/improvements to the drums and drop them right on the current grid.

And I also agree that the vocal level sounded a little uneven - and maybe needed a little more ambience to it.

Anyway - yeah - fun, interesting song and well worth the listen. Keep going. I've got a Katana. I haven't used it for recording yet - but after listening to your gtr sounds and playing - I will consider that. Very nice.

 

[PorterhouseMusic]

I really like the way you documented everything. Sometimes I'll listen to an older recording and wonder how I got a certain tone and feel and have no clue. Sometimes I'll think "don't ever do that again". I'm going to start documenting as you did.

I'm bad about this. I do keep a dedicated "track notes" notebook right at my desk. And I do use it to keep track of things. But I'm very haphazard in my note taking. I still track/capture on a stand alone recorder and will keep notes of where stuff is in terms of tracks and virtual tracks. And I'll somewhat makes notes on what I did here or there. But it's not thorough or comprehensive like what you see above. In fact, I've gone back to review old stuff and sometimes find mostly gibberish notes. Like not very useful because they're so incomplete.

The importance of keeping really detailed notes seems so intuitive - I really need to work on that and have certainly regretted not always doing so. Especially when you come across something that really worked and you say: "how did I do that?? I'll never know now"

 

[cmharwood89]

Wow - some really useful feedback, thanks!

I am going to try auditioning some other drum kits for something a bit more "raw" sounding.

The unevenness in the vocals is a good point. I'm itching to retrack some of the vocal passages to address a few flat notes, but I will try to get more consistency across phrases. I tend to avoid automation for volume, but it may be worth riding the faders a bit.

I'm away on a trip, but I am looking forward to trying out everybody's suggestions in a couple days!

 

[cmharwood89]

OK, I've got an altered mix. Looking forward to everybody's thoughts on whether it's an improvement or regression.




Y'all were very helpful in your feedback. Here's how I used it:

The programmed drums seemed a little tame to me. All the hits were at the same level.

I absolutely agree that the drums could be improved by getting something that sounds more natural. IMO - the kit you chose and some of the drum parts themselves were a little distracting.

I replaced my drum samples with Steven Slate Drums free, which sounded looser and more "raw" to me. I also went through and dialed back the velocity on all but the biggest hits, added a lot more variation, some ghost notes, etc. I think they sound more natural, but it could also be that they just sound new. Going from EZ Drummer 3 to SSD was a snap.

Drum outputs routed to individual tracks for kick, snare, toms, hi-hat, ride, and OHs, with reverb sends on all but the kick. Toms got a little extra boost on the reverb send because I like how they sound in the space during the fills. I muted all of the room mics in the plugin to keep the outputs relatively dry.

Then towards the end I wanted all the parts to be more glued together.

I assume you mean the layered guitar parts during the outro? If so, I agree. I pulled those out in the latest version.

Seemed a little louder in certain passages, maybe a bit more compression?

I think I would try and pull the vocals back in the mix a little and let the backing punchy instruments come forward a little. Maybe just a touch more reverb or delay on the vox would help ??

And I also agree that the vocal level sounded a little uneven - and maybe needed a little more ambience to it.

I actually re-tracked the vocals. Turns out, I'm shockingly consistent in where I come in a little flat on some notes. But I think my mic technique was a bit better this time around - closer, louder, and aimed a bit more chest-ward to get some more warmth. Early reflections were way quieter, and I needed less EQ on the vocals. I don't know that they're any better in the mix, and I don't think that the performance is significantly improved, but I think they're cleaner. I compressed them quite a bit more - especially since I was closer to the mic, this time using TDL Kotelnikov in two stages. I pulled the vox level back a smidge and increased the vox reverb also by a smidge. I think the result jells better with the mix.

I've got a Katana. I haven't used it for recording yet - but after listening to your gtr sounds and playing - I will consider that

I've got a modeling pedal that I use occasionally too, but I think the Katana just sounds better. I typically throw a mic in front of the amp but after hearing what the line-out sounds like, I don't think I'll do that anymore. I don't think that the power amp stage, speaker, or cabinet are adding enough character to make it worthwhile dealing with room noise. I'll have to find another use for my little blondies, I guess.

 

[Eric V]

Personally I think it's an improvement. You have a really good voice. You sing better than I do, so I have no further input. Great job.

 

[Papanate]

OK, I've got an altered mix. Looking forward to everybody's thoughts on whether it's an improvement or regression.

I think the drums improved the sound - overall the mix is really loose - the beginning vocals on the Chorus (?) change dramatically and then they settled back in - I wouldn’t dial them back though - I might add more reverb to them - I really don’t know as i need to listen to it a couple of dozen times more - I wanted the music and vocal to be blended more - and I was wanting them all to knit together - there is a lot of separation to the instruments and vocals.

 

[cmharwood89]

I think the drums improved the sound - overall the mix is really loose - the beginning vocals on the Chorus (?) change dramatically and then they settled back in - I wouldn’t dial them back though - I might add more reverb to them - I really don’t know as i need to listen to it a couple of dozen times more - I wanted the music and vocal to be blended more - and I was wanting them all to knit together - there is a lot of separation to the instruments and vocals.

OK - good data point, thanks! After having listened some more to both mixes, I think that the vocals -- while cleaner in mix 2 -- are actually a bit more tightly knitted to the music in mix 1. I might go back to the older vocal tracks and work from there. A bit more compression is my first instinct, since I think there may be some volume variation you're still hearing. I am also using a reverb with a shorter tail on the vocal track. I'm wondering if that is creating the disconnect. I can try bussing the vox to the main reverb channel and seeing if that integrates it all a bit better.

 

[Slouching Raymond]

Wow! Love mix2.

 

[albie]

Seems fine to me...but I like the vocals to be unpanned. in the middle. They seem to be slightly more to one side. Not sure which. The vox should be the heart of the tune, for me.

 

[cmharwood89]

Seems fine to me...but I like the vocals to be unpanned. in the middle. They seem to be slightly more to one side. Not sure which. The vox should be the heart of the tune, for me.

Interesting. Vox should be dead center, but I'll check that I didn't accidentally pan them a little.

 

[albie]

Interesting. Vox should be dead center, but I'll check that I didn't accidentally pan them a little.

It may be the headphones I'm using or the settings on the PC.

 

[mark skinner]

I agree with Papanate . The drum changes were a nice improvement as was the carving for more vocal space. I believe the vocal performane in the 2nd mix was a lot better and sung with confidence. There were a couple of phrases I thought could use a touch of melodyne though. The 2nd vox mix was a little less laid back and for sure not as warm as the first one. Tough call .. I'm looking forward to your next mix choices. This song deserves all the time and work you put into it. Impressive .. mark

 

[HumanPlanet]

Very nice song. Well recorded and as Mark said it deserves a good mix.

There are things I would do that should improve it, for my ears anyway!

The first thing is that the balance is a bit off for me. Without getting too involved, relative to the vocal, I would push the drum bus up +3dB and the bass is barely there (and could maybe do with a bit of retracking in places) and needs maybe a +5dB lift, guitar bus will then need attention including maybe a +1dB push. Then adjust it all to how you hear it.

A lot has been said about the vocal and a bit of retracking and comping wouldn't be a bad thing and in the mix I would use volume automation pre compression to get it to sit, and carve out a bit more space for it and add a touch more reverb.

Then overall a bit more compression and a tad more reverb (hall/room maybe) to help glue it together and that would get it closer to where I would want it:

There's more to do but this would be a good start.

We don't know each other yet and this is of course only where I see it and I could be completely on the wrong path to what is in your head in which case ignore everything I've said .

Also excuse the liberty of working on your mix without permission, I just can't help myself sometimes.


PS good work on the notes, it's that creative academic brain, you just can't help yourself sometimes...

 

[cmharwood89]

I believe the vocal performane in the 2nd mix was a lot better and sung with confidence. There were a couple of phrases I thought could use a touch of melodyne though. The 2nd vox mix was a little less laid back and for sure not as warm as the first one. Tough call ..

A lot has been said about the vocal and a bit of retracking and comping wouldn't be a bad thing and in the mix I would use volume automation pre compression to get it to sit, and carve out a bit more space for it and add a touch more reverb.

I don't have access to melodyne (and I understand that Reapitch isn't really a suitable stand-in). Additional takes cost me nothing but time, however. So I'll probably lay down some more takes this weekend and spend some time on my monitoring setup. My pitch control always gets a bit more wobbly with cans on, and I've got to figure out a system that works well for me. I'm this close to putting on some bone-conducting bluetooth headphones while tracking and just shifting the take to remove the bluetooth transmission latency.

Doing some pre-compression automation is an idea I hadn't thought of, but makes perfect sense. I just need to figure out how to enact that in Reaper...

By "carving out more space," I take it you mean a bit of a cut around 1k-2k on the guitars?

Without getting too involved, relative to the vocal, I would push the drum bus up +3dB and the bass is barely there (and could maybe do with a bit of retracking in places) and needs maybe a +5dB lift,

Agreed on the drums. I was thinking the same thing. They need to come up -- especially the kick, which lacks the low-end in SSD free, compared to EZDrummer. Your feedback on the bass is the only thing that puzzles me a bit. Mixing on headphones (no good monitors or treated spaces), the mix sounds quite bass heavy, if anything. I wonder if boosting the level, but shelving the lows down a few dB might help make the bass more present, but avoid boominess?

Bass also wasn't a live instrument - at least not mine. That's a stem from Band-in-a-box. I can tweak holds and mutes, or try some different recordings. Is there a particular place you didn't think the bass jelled well?

We don't know each other yet and this is of course only where I see it and I could be completely on the wrong path to what is in your head in which case ignore everything I've said .

Also excuse the liberty of working on your mix without permission, I just can't help myself sometimes.

On the contrary - your input is pointing in exactly the direction I'm hoping for. Very useful. And thanks for sharing a modified version - that gives me a good reference! I assume that's the product of EQ, compression, and some additional reverb?

 

[HumanPlanet]

I don't have access to melodyne (and I understand that Reapitch isn't really a suitable stand-in). Additional takes cost me nothing but time, however. So I'll probably lay down some more takes this weekend and spend some time on my monitoring setup. My pitch control always gets a bit more wobbly with cans on, and I've got to figure out a system that works well for me. I'm this close to putting on some bone-conducting bluetooth headphones while tracking and just shifting the take to remove the bluetooth transmission latency.

Doing some pre-compression automation is an idea I hadn't thought of, but makes perfect sense. I just need to figure out how to enact that in Reaper...

You don't need melodyne (for comping?) that's more for tuning and timing issues among a few other things.
I used to spend a fair amount of time automating the volume on a vocal track but now I just put vocal rider on it, spend 5 minutes dialling it in and done. This video will explain better than I will typing it out:

By "carving out more space," I take it you mean a bit of a cut around 1k-2k on the guitars?

Pretty much but I use a dynamic eq on the track I'm trying to duck out of the way with a sidechain from the vocal track, that way it's only affected when the vocal track triggers it.

Agreed on the drums. I was thinking the same thing. They need to come up -- especially the kick, which lacks the low-end in SSD free, compared to EZDrummer. Your feedback on the bass is the only thing that puzzles me a bit. Mixing on headphones (no good monitors or treated spaces), the mix sounds quite bass heavy, if anything. I wonder if boosting the level, but shelving the lows down a few dB might help make the bass more present, but avoid boominess?

My comment refers to the bass guitar disapearing in the mix every now and then especially towards the end of the song and a bit of automation to get it heard consistently at all times might not be a bad thing. The low end on the bass does need to be brought under control.

Bass also wasn't a live instrument - at least not mine. That's a stem from Band-in-a-box. I can tweak holds and mutes, or try some different recordings. Is there a particular place you didn't think the bass jelled well?

That's a composition choice but for example at 1.51-55 3.30-35 and 4.31-35 it sound a bit like the bass player wasn't sure where to go with it. There are other sections like 1.10-30 that sound great and work really well, it's by no means all bad!

On the contrary - your input is pointing in exactly the direction I'm hoping for. Very useful. And thanks for sharing a modified version - that gives me a good reference!

Don't place too much stock on the demo I posted! That's just there as an example of what the vocal track might sound like once automated. I really should explain myself better when I do things rather than just assuming people can read my mind

I assume that's the product of EQ, compression, and some additional reverb?

Not so much eq but it does have some compression and reverb added to it and an liberty taking easter egg.

 

[HumanPlanet]

by the way, 4.43 on that guitar, is that an intentional move?