cmharwood89
Member
Yes, it is
HumanPlanet
_R*A*F_
Just asked as it changed mid note and it sounds a bit unexpected.
Been listening to it again today, it's a pretty cool song.
HumanPlanet
_R*A*F_
I wasn't going to post this but it is the modified version I made that I have been listening to. Sounds good to my old ears and is more what I'm used too. It might make a better reference.
I'll go away now...
I'll go away now...
cmharwood89
Member
Awesome - I'll use this as a reference when I'm working on it tomorrow!
HumanPlanet
_R*A*F_
cmharwood89
Member
OK, latest mix revision. New vocals, which I'm happier with. More compression all round, which I fear may have squashed the dynamics too much...
HumanPlanet
_R*A*F_
I'd say this is the best version so far but there's more work to do starting with the vocal.
I don't know how you track your vocals but that's where you should concentrate your efforts, be critical with yourself and get it as right as you can, you have the voice to make a spectacular song.
Anyway, here you've got 3 mixes we've heard and with a bit more focus you could do a better job at comping the vocal performance.
I'll give you an example of what I mean, towards the end of the song the word howl is sung 3 times, you nail the first one and sing it perfectly, the second is not good and the third is expressive but middling. If I were mixing this, and it's all I had, I would use the first 'howl' three times to get what I think is a better result.
Listen to the before and after:
I'd also use that 'howl' towards the beginning of the song where, currently, the word collapses.
Before and after:
Now do that critically line by line, word by word and syllable by syllable with the takes you've got and see where you can improve the vocal performance.
If this isn't the kind of advice you were looking for or you think it's too basic for you or you think I'm full of s**t, you can send me on my way at any time, I won't get offended.
I don't know how you track your vocals but that's where you should concentrate your efforts, be critical with yourself and get it as right as you can, you have the voice to make a spectacular song.
Anyway, here you've got 3 mixes we've heard and with a bit more focus you could do a better job at comping the vocal performance.
I'll give you an example of what I mean, towards the end of the song the word howl is sung 3 times, you nail the first one and sing it perfectly, the second is not good and the third is expressive but middling. If I were mixing this, and it's all I had, I would use the first 'howl' three times to get what I think is a better result.
Listen to the before and after:
I'd also use that 'howl' towards the beginning of the song where, currently, the word collapses.
Before and after:
Now do that critically line by line, word by word and syllable by syllable with the takes you've got and see where you can improve the vocal performance.
If this isn't the kind of advice you were looking for or you think it's too basic for you or you think I'm full of s**t, you can send me on my way at any time, I won't get offended.
Last edited:
cmharwood89
Member
Again, on the contrary. This critique is precisely what I'm looking for, so thank you for taking the time!
I do have a lot of takes, and I admit that I ran out of steam while auditioning them. I can go through and get a little more discerning in what I keep vs throw out.
Regarding the outro - I hear you, and I'm taking the feedback regarding the "howl" refrain to heart. I do think, though, that we've got different ideas of how that passage was supposed to sound. I'm guessing that you judge the second and third "howl" deliveries are worse because they sound less controlled? That's true, but it's partly also by design. I sang those parts right on the edge of my voice breaking up because that was the sound I was going for. First was more controlled. Second less so. Third was more ragged still. But if that doesn't sound good, I want to know. That's why I posted the mix for critique.
I wholeheartedly agree that I can get more critical on my vocal takes. I'm not sure I have the stamina or training to improve on them much more, but I can work with what I've got and do some targeted retracking of phrases that don't have a good take for comping.
HumanPlanet
_R*A*F_
If it sounds good to you then stick to your vision. You're the artist, it's your song and that's all that counts, what I or anyone else think and what we would do is irrelevant if it doesn't fit with what's in your head.
I'll keep giving my opinions as long as you want them and I know I'm not always right about things. I just wrote a song about Freddy Kreuger falling in love but knowing who and what he is means that love could never last which my wife thinks is an awful topic for a song and hates, she's always right but I stuck to my vision and I love it!
I'm the kind of person that deletes things easily as I hate clutter and I try to move on quickly. I have come to regret that on several occasions.
That's a good plan if you're unhappy with the vocal. If it's at the point where you are happy with it then move on.
Mix 3 is the best so far, I'll listen a few more times and see if I've got any useful suggestions to make, if not I'll just enjoy the listen as it really is a very good song.
cmharwood89
Member
Another updated mix.
I made several changes.
I made several changes.
- Sidechain compression on all guitar tracks, activated by vocals
- Quite a bit of vocal comping
- Moderate compression on snare and kick tracks to tame transients.
- Eased up on master bus compression (getting about 1-3 db gain reduction in the loudest passages now)
- Eased back 1db on the drum bus
- Eased back a few db on the primary reverb. Vocals still have their own reverb channel, which uses the same IR as the instruments, but with a 40ms pre-delay and a tail shortened by 35% to keep it from getting too wishy washy
- I saved out my #2 and #3 takes on certain phrases, cranked their reverb sends, set the fader low, panned them hard L/R and put them as doubled BVs on a few phrases. Not sure whether it works or sounds sloppy yet.
- Added some volume automation on the primary vox (+/- 3db) to get it to sit a bit better.
- And present on the last mix but I forgot to mention. Volume automation on bass to keep it present during louder passages. Also added a little bit of saturation to bring out some harmonics and make it a bit more articulate.
Flyguitarfish
Active member
I jumped in a little late to the party but it was fun to hear the mixes back to back. This last mix is really honing in on it. You’ve put a lot of work into it!
My only suggestion at this point would be to turn the snare up a couple dB. It seems quieter than the kick throughout much of the song. Personally I prefer the snare equal to, or even a little louder, than the kick. Really drives the song!
Otherwise I’d say you’ve nailed it. Cool song. Vocal tone is very good. Bass and guitars aren’t perfect but still solid. Nice work!
HumanPlanet
_R*A*F_
It's come on a lot from mix 1.
What compressor/s are you using on the lead vocal and what settings have you got as is sounds under compressed to me (without wanting it crushed!) but If it sounds good to you...
What compressor/s are you using on the lead vocal and what settings have you got as is sounds under compressed to me (without wanting it crushed!) but If it sounds good to you...
cmharwood89
Member
I've tried a few compressors. I'm doing two stages with Tokyo Dawn Labs Kotelnikov:
Stage 1
Stage 2:
I'm getting around 6db reduction in stage 1 and about 3db in stage 2. I could probably compress it a bit more aggressively - particularly the first verse. I feel like the second verse onward is tighter.
HumanPlanet
_R*A*F_
I think I'd try turning off the your stage 1 compressor and make the stage 2 compressor stage 1, try a higher ratio, make the release quicker, set the threshold to get the amount of gain reduction I'm looking for on the loudest peaks then set the knee so it hits on the loudest peaks I want to control without doing much on the quiter ones and adjust to what I'm hearing, -6dB might be right (or maybe more).
I'd then try a different style of compressor as stage 2 (opto is the obvious choice) and set to what I hear. Looking for -3dB might be right (or maybe more).
HumanPlanet
_R*A*F_
I agree
Supercreep
Reclaiming my Time
Good song. I like your vocal phrasing; Arctic Monkeys fan?
I think the vocals are too loud compared to the drums and guitars, once the band kicks in.
I think the drums need to have less velocity and more dynamic range. Everything is breathing except the drums.
I think the vocals are too loud compared to the drums and guitars, once the band kicks in.
I think the drums need to have less velocity and more dynamic range. Everything is breathing except the drums.
cmharwood89
Member
Hey - thanks! Those are some of the things I've been working to address. Just wanted to make sure you're referencing the latest mix and not the original one. If so, I'll definitely take another pass through with your feedback!
Supercreep
Reclaiming my Time
My comments are based on Mix 4. I don't see a Mix 5.
cmharwood89
Member
OK, fingers crossed this might be my last version of the mix.
I got a bit more aggressive with my compressors. First, I used melodyne to do some light note leveling within each phrase, which I think got it sitting a little better in the mix before compressing at all.
I stepped my stage 1 up to a ~6db gain reduction.
I replaced the stage 2 with FIRcomp, with a 4:1 ratio, moderate knee, and threshold set to get about 4 db gain reduction. The vocals are less dynamic, but I do think they sit a bit better in the mix.
This was my first time programming drums. I tried pretty hard to get some dynamics in there, and I really save the hardest hits for the more energetic choruses. I suppose I could try ramping the velocities more through each passage to get some build-up?
I did a bit of digging into melodyne and decided to give it a shot when I saw a copy priced at 50% off. I'm impressed with how natural it sounds. I didn't go crazy with the rigid pitch correction, but I nudged things around a bit until the troublesome phrases were tamed.
I got a bit more aggressive with my compressors. First, I used melodyne to do some light note leveling within each phrase, which I think got it sitting a little better in the mix before compressing at all.
I stepped my stage 1 up to a ~6db gain reduction.
I replaced the stage 2 with FIRcomp, with a 4:1 ratio, moderate knee, and threshold set to get about 4 db gain reduction. The vocals are less dynamic, but I do think they sit a bit better in the mix.
Thanks! I did push the snare up about 2.5 dB and the kick down by about 0.5. I think it's a little more snare-forward now.
Vocals dialed back a smidge, but I also added some volume automation to step them back up a little bit through the louder sections -- I think they get kind of lost in the guitars otherwise.
This was my first time programming drums. I tried pretty hard to get some dynamics in there, and I really save the hardest hits for the more energetic choruses. I suppose I could try ramping the velocities more through each passage to get some build-up?
mark skinner
Well-known member
Nice .. Only listened with laptop speakers to this last version. I would call it a success and live with it for a while. Generally if I Ever get a song to this point , it's a song or two later when I go back for any further changes. After so much editing I get burned out and start making bad choices. Fantastic work and enjoyed listening to this one evolve. Looking forward to more from you. Loved it .. mark
