Under The Hood - Inside the Marshall V67G and the Studio Projects C1

[Harvey Gerst]

Originally posted by alanhyatt

Ok, I'm back, but only if someone will tell me how to get expert member under my name instead of Newbie! I hate Newbie!

LOL, Welcome to the club, Alan - I had to go thru the "Newbie" shit too, and I'm 14 years older than you are! In fact, I was playing guitar, and hanging out in studios BEFORE you were born!! After you post 50 times, you become a "Junior Member". WOW. You can imagine how thrilled I was about that.

My advice? Furget about it. "By thy words shall ye be known."

 

[alanhyatt]

Ok, I'm back, but only if someone will tell me how to get expert member under my name instead of Newbie! I hate Newbe!

Before I go further, I tend to want to tell the truth, if that pisses any of you off or offends you into thinking something else than what I meant, I can't help it.

I do not knock products down, and I do not hype mine up. Do not come looking for me to bone up and give opinions on this group, because as soon as I do, someone will be jumping down my throat. If you want my opinion that bad, email me, and if you do, the private conversation we have better not show up on these pages.

And c7sus...what do want me to tell you? If you want to know about gear, ask me. If you want to know about why the earth is round...ask Mr. Jeeves.

Well I guess I will get trashed for that remark, but in either case. I am back and I will answer your gear realated questions if you want me to.

 

[Prism]

Alan's last message became a double post....how odd... how'd that happen?

Isaiah

 

[alanhyatt]

MrZekeMan


Some people like the U87, and some don't. I think the mic is great, but it had a few weaknesses. Output gain was one, proximity was the other, and the biggest one was cost.

It was not designed intentionally with Neumann in mind. Truth be told, if you really want the C1 to sound and act like it, there are two cap value changes you can do, or I can do, and then it is hard to tell, but the C1 was done to be it's own thing. I am not saying better or worse, but you have to wonder why "most" of the reviews and many on the groups continue to compare it to a U87.

I think it is flattering, but like I said earlier, no comment from me on that one. I did the C1 because I wanted to offer the best microphone on the planet in its price class. I have three more microphone models coming and a line of six models of mic pres, compressors, and eq's. We have lots to do and much to review in the next 18 months!

 

[alanhyatt]

For tubedude

tubedude

The C1, and C3 are somewhat similar. The C3 uses a dual capsule(all brass front and rear with lots of screws) same components but more of them and a couple of switches. It is a three-pattern mic, Cardioid, Omni, and Figure Eight. It provides a 10db pad, a hi-pass at 80hz, and a flat switch.

As a result of the dual diaphragm, the C1 and C3 sound different when comparing side by side with the C3 in the Cardioid pattern. This is common as one is a single vs. a dual diaphragm, so the C3 picks up proximity from the rear.

To me, the C3 is sweeter, it has a warmer presence on the top end, but still provides a great full bottom end,(my opinion), which I like better for acoustic recording, screaming Marshall cabinets, and vocals. The C1 is more versatile, and is a bit punchier, and good for just about anything you want to put in front of it.

The T3 is a transformer design, rather than a FET. The T3 is my favorite mic. It is supplied with a power supply with three patterns, but nine variations. I use the T3 on everything, and I look forward to Tom at DBX to get his hands on it. There has been so much attention to the C1, that the C3 and T3 get moved to the rear of the bus, but they are equally as good in their class as the C1 is in its.

 

[Harvey Gerst]

BTW, is it just me, or did this thread somehow morph from a somewhat "independent" view into a couple mics into spam, eggs, bacon, and spam spam spam spam.....

Well, I hope it was a lot more than just a "somewhat independent view". I thought the group might be interested in learning some of the things I look at when testing microphones, and my thinking processes as I examine this stuff.

It involves a little more effort on my part than simply saying, "Wow, I tried it on my voice and my guitar, and it blew away my Radio Shack dynamic mic - everybody should rush out and buy this mic cuz it works so great for me."

Kinda like buying a car. You take it for a drive and you either like it or not. But how will it hold up under different conditions? Yes, you can read reviews and maybe talk to a couple of friends who may own one, but suppose your next door neighbor is a retired automotive engineer/designer.

He might find some things you didn't even consider. And he won't look at the car the same way you and your friends will. Since he doesn't own the car, doesn't work for the manufacturer, and really doesn't care if you buy it based on his opinion or not, there's a pretty good chance that at least you'll get an unbiased, and pretty accurate evaluation.

That's how I kinda see myself. I don't work for Taylor Johnson at the Sound Room; I don't work for Brent Casey at Marshall; and from some of the posts flying back and forth here, it should be obvious that I don't work for Alan Hyatt at PMI either.

The mics I have from the Sound Room were purchased from Taylor at full retail - no discounts whatsoever (but he did let me make payments). The mics I have from Marshall were also purchased by me (at a pretty damn good price, since most of them were demo units). I haven't really even discussed prices with Alan yet.

I hope this doesn't come off as "he doth protest too much", but the "somewhat" independent remark really rubbed me the wrong way, C7sus. I'm pretty sure that wasn't your intent, but I felt it was important for me to comment on it so you'll clearly understand my position on this stuff. So lemme run it down one more time for everybody:

I don't work for Taylor Johnson at the Sound Room.

I don't work for Brent Casey at Marshall.

I don't work for Alan Hyatt at PMI.

I own and operate a small recording studio outside Sanger, Texas.

I have worked for a number of music companies, designing everything from mics to guitars to amplifiers to P.A. systems.

I was involved as a professional songwriter/musician/engineer in the Los Angeles music scene for several decades. I still talk to a lot of musicians/engineers/producers that I knew in L.A.

I "review/look at/evaluate" stuff that looks interesting and possibly useful to me as a small studio owner.

I've been involved in the music business since I was 14 years old - I'm now 64.

At this point in my life, it's all about paying back all the people that have helped me as I was learning, by passing on whatever I've learned to others.

 

[JPS]

c7sus, you have expressed your opinion, I will now express mine.

-I think your "socialist labor propaganda" is not appropriate for this thread. I strongly suggest you start your own thread to debate this economic issue and invite people to respond to your views. I gaurantee it will get hostile quick. Be sure to invite the Chinese point of view on being "abused" for making mics.

-You have essentially called Alan a "greedy capitalist" to his face here on the forum. Not a very tactful manuever. You do not know his intentions to develop this mic, but it appears to me he is not motivated by greed. He spent several years researching how to make a high quality mic with really great sound. He has managed to do this and then price it so even "poor" recording musicians can have access to great quality sound, previously only in the domain of "rich greedy studio owners".

-I believe you also called Alan a "spammer". Did you notice that his posts are specifically answering questions asked my other members. Mabey you knew this info and consider it spam, to others it may clarify things.

Alan clearly takes pride in his work and his opinions reflect that appropriately. As you create in life and put it before the public for scrutiny, I hope you would also take pride in your work.

John

 

[blinddogblues]

C7sus.....you are full of shit. If you don't like Alan's business plan, then don't buy his products. If he is targeting a certain aspect of the market, then so what, that is his business, not yours. If he is a greedy capitalist, that is his business, not yours. You don't like it, don't buy it. Or better yet, take your own money, put it at risk, start your own business, and develop your own business plan that is consistent with your philosophy. (We call that capitalism where I'm from)

 

[Telefunken]

Im still waiting for that review on this mic from Harvey.

 

[BBB]

Harvey and Alan ROCK

The information Harvey and Alan supply is some of the most valuable information I have found on this site.

Harvey supplies accurate information about actual technical aspects and comparisons of equipment. This is the best information we could ask for. Not only that, but he mostly supplies just the facts without flame bait. Thanks Harvey.

Alan volunteers a valuable insiders view into the design of his products. Very matter-of-fact. Once you understand his tone (which is hardly even close to offensive), you can get valuable information from someone whom is passionate about his product. Thanks Alan.


Kudos to them.

 

[Track Rat]

Hey C7, keep that shit out of this thread. If you want to get on your soap box and rant that right wing propaganda do so in the cave. I'd rather hear about the mics here.

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Im still waiting for that review on this mic from Harvey.

OK, first impressions Marshall MXL-V67G vs. Sound Projects C1

Bottom line; the'yre pretty damn close to each other in sound. The Sound Projects C1 is a little hotter (about 2 dB more output), and a little quieter (again, by about 2 dB). Overall, the frequency response is very similar, with maybe a -1dB shelf around 800 to 1,000 Hz on the Sound Projects C1. The Marshall MXL-V67G sounds slightly fuller, but again by a very small amount.

So, is there a clear-cut winner? Nope, they're both really nice mics that will do a pretty good job for vocals where you're looking for a full bodied, rich vocal sound. They're both retailing at around $300 with a street price of right around $200. The Sound Projects C1 is heavier and looks like the Brauner VM-1 mic while the Marshall MXL-V67G has a distinctive AKG C12VR look and is not quite as rugged.

They're both pretty good values for the money.

One warning before you run out and plunk your money down on a C1:

This is only a preliminary test. I've only heard this one mic so far. Quality control and consistency are big problems with Chinese and Russian microphones. I'm going to surprise Alan Hyatt Monday and ask him to send me another set of the mics to see how close they all match each other. I know the Marshall MXL-V67Gs are consistent, but I can't guarantee that's also true of the Sound Projects C1 - al least, not yet.

If you have $200 burning a hole in your pocket and you can't wait to run out and buy the C1, you probably won't go too far wrong, but I can't give it a sweeping endorsment, until I'm certain that your C1 will sound the same as the C1 I just listened to.

But so far, it "looks" like it's gonna be another winner in the low cost, big mic race.

 

[alanhyatt]

To all the members of this group,

Thank you for supporting me. To Harvey Gerst, thank you for all the insight in helping me to understand this newsgroup thing. You are a very patient man.

To c7sus, if you read your earlier post, you told me tell you to shut up, so I did! I will not comment on your other inflammatory remarks.

If you read my other posts, my goal is to provide the best possible gear that compares to the most expensive gear at a fraction of the cost.

In either case, I do not exploit Mexicans, Chinese, Indians, or anyone else. I am an equal opportunity manufacture of quality microphones.

 

[Fishkid]

Track Rat,
Agreed.

Actually I wonder what the Chinese man or woman working for 797 Audio, and most likely supporting their family(ies) would have to say; I'm guessing they would vote to keep their job.


Alan,
I exchanged several e-mails with you when first word of your mics' qualities were being spread by Pete, Ted, and others over on the CakeWalk forums. I have to say that I found your demeanor and openess, then, and now on this forum, to be a welcome and refreshing approach from a company selling audio gear. Especially considering that most manufacturers/distributors can only be heard from when they want your credit card info and then disappear from the face of the earth. I'm glad you chose to engage the high pass filters regarding the noise on this thread.

Your availability for questions, your sharing of info on the background of your mics, and the consistently good reviews from a variety of sources I trust convinced me, just yesterday, to purchase a pair of C1's for my studio. I'm looking forward to putting them through their paces. Best of luck with your endeavor.

------------
Scott Shane

 

[tubedude]

123

c7- Why? Is it really neccesary to bog down this forum with boring diatribe? If this is indeed the forum to post it, then this thread certainly IS NOT the place to post it. Please, you and everyone else involved BE MEN, not little girls, and take it somewhere else and argue to your hearts content. Start your own threads and argue your little hearts out. In the meantime, have maturity, understanding and respect and let those of us that are here for the RIGHT reasons to read what we are here to read. I don't want problems out of anyone, but this is fucking ridiculous, immature, boring girlie shoolyard shit that doesnt belong in a RECORDING forum. This is EXACTLY the reason the Cave was started. Go there, and be merry.
Thank you, everyone, in advance for your maturity and for being men enough to not post anymore garbage here. Show us how big you REALLY are.
Peace,
Paul

 

[JPS]

This has been a really great thread!!!

Harvey- Thanks for taking time to review the C1 and share your impressions. Any more insights will be greatly appreciated, either favorable or unfavorable.

Alan- Thanks for visiting the forum. It is always the highlight of any thread when a manufacturer comes and adds additional inside details about products that may never be heard anywhere else. Thanks.

C7sus- What can I say? You should consider rereading ECON 101. It seems you have confused "Entrepreneur" and "Greedy Capitalist".

 

[Dolemite]

OK, guys....let's remember that we're talking about mics here (ahem, C7!) not politics, not trade economics, mics dammit! If you want to discuss such issues, please, by all means do so, but I think we're all in agreement that this is not the appropriate place for such discussions.

Now that we're back on track, I'm still wondering about my previous question that didn't get answered. I hope Alan sticks around long enough to respond (hope we didn't scare you off, man) and maybe Harvey will have something to say about this as well:

Alan, would you care to comment on your choice of a transformerless design for the C1? In what ways would the addition of an output transformer to a large diaphragm condenser affect the sound? (I know Harvey called it a "coloration") How does the lack or presence of such transformers relate to preamp selection, if at all?

BTW, for those that missed this little tidbit, the C1 is transformerless while the V67 has an output transformer. I'm wondering not so much to compare the specific mics but more out of curiousity. Maybe this belongs in Harvey's "master class" thread?

Also, could you fill us in on your upcoming line of preamps, Alan?

 

[Fishkid]

Promise?

-----------
Fishkid

 

[JerryD]

Idiot.

c7sus,

You were funny at first.

Now you have managed to piss off Harvey with your detrimental BS.

You do realize that if Harvey leaves there will be a huge information vacumm that will cause this place to suck?

Who is moderating this BBS?

 

[alanhyatt]

This is the end of this!

*edit*