The New Tone Thread

[Greg_L]

Gain = 1. Jesus fuck! How much gain does this amp have?
.

It must be a fuckton. That's like as much gain as my JCM 800 has with the gain dimed.

Sounds pretty good miner. It's very thick. I do detect a little bit of fuzz like JDOD mentioned, but to me it's not enough to worry about. I think it'd sound good in the right mix. So if that's "blue" with the gain on 1, I'm guessing there's no way in hell to get a clean tone from that amp!

 

[JDOD]

It must be a fuckton. That's like as much gain as my JCM 800 has with the gain dimed.

Sounds pretty good miner. It's very thick. I do detect a little bit of fuzz like JDOD mentioned, but to me it's not enough to worry about. I think it'd sound good in the right mix. So if that's "blue" with the gain on 1, I'm guessing there's no way in hell to get a clean tone from that amp!

A fuck-ton, slightly more than a shitload? but not quite as much as ALL THE GAIN!!!

As Greg, said, the slight fuzz wasn't bad - I was just listening carefully for something on closed back headphones - would work fine in a mix I'm sure.

 

[minerman]

Miner, I think that's generally really good, sounds spot on for the sort of music you normally play although in places there appeared to be a slight "buzziness" to it - not sure how to describe it but it was more apparent when you were strumming chords.

Gain = 1. Jesus fuck! How much gain does this amp have?
Come on, keep the settings the same, give us gain = 10 in drop D just for shits and giggles.

Thanks Jdude, the buzzy thing I can't figure out...It's in some of my clips, & in some it's not there...It's more apparent in low power mode & lower volume, unfortunately I think it's just part of having a little, low watt amp...

Yes it's got a shit-ton of gain, most of the time I never have the gain past 4-5, even on the blue channel, which is the low gain channel. The red channel has even more gain & a tad more high end...

Greg: Yep, it's got a fuck-ton of gain, way more than even I'd use...Don't get me wrong, it's a little monster for gain-y-iacs, & I can get it clean-ish, but there ain't no clean with this thing...

 

[Greg_L]

unfortunately I think it's just part of having a little, low watt amp...

I think that's what it is too. Little amp trying to sound like a big amp. It's a conundrum that modern technology has not figured out yet.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Yeah send me the link. I'd love to read it. I can believe it because I see it when I track amps. If you look at the EQ on a spectrum analyzer, you can see a little dip in the mids from any amp. Speakers play a role, but it's there. Hell you can see it on any generic speaker graph.

I think, just my personal observation, Marshalls and other "british" amps may cut and have better perceived midrange because of how they distort. "American" style amps like Fenders and Mesas have huge exaggerated bottom and high ends and the mids kind of get left alone. And they often utilize power tubes that enhance big bottom ends and glassy highs. I think that may be why the Vintage 30 is the preferred speaker for heavy Mesa sounds. The V30 helps the mids. A Marshall is the opposite. Orange and Vox too. A typical EL34-tubed Marshall has a pretty tight bottom and clean-ish top end. Most of it's grunt comes from the mids/upper mids. Orange amps are thick in lower mids. Scoop the mids on a Marshall or Orange and you still have a ton of midrange sound to play with. I'm not a mid-scooper by any means, but I rarely find myself needing to run my mids past 5 or 6 for anything. It's just too much of a good thing.

I'm looking at the two amps I used last weekend, still set at their gig EQ....
JCM 800 - Bass 7 - Mid 5 - Treb 4
JMP 2204 - Bass 5 - Mid 4 - Treb 6

So average mids, no one that I talked to had any trouble hearing me.

something else that's at play is the human ears hears mids quite a bit better than the lows or highs so that also may be why having only slightly scooped mids seems so middy to us.

I've always loved mids .... to me that's where the magic lies.
I used to love to set the mid on my Ampegs to 800hz and crank that freq ..... almost a cocked wah sound.
I love that shit.

 

[minerman]

I think that's what it is too. Little amp trying to sound like a big amp. It's a conundrum that modern technology has not figured out yet.

Yeah man, it's just part of having a low-watt amp...I was in about the same place before the summer of '14 when I bought the DSL100H, & then the Chupa that fall...I could literally just plug-n-play with those amps, especially the Chupa...

Then the shit-sandwich called life jumped up & left quite a bad taste in my mouth for quite a while.....It's almost funny now looking back, I literally almost worried myself to death over stuff that really doesn't mean shit when it's all said & done...I've got quite a different perspective on things now than I did about a year ago...

Sorry for the de-rail there guys....


Did you find any pics of your gig over the weekend Greg???

 

[Greg_L]

Nope, nothing yet. I'm not on any social media so I'm at the mercy of other people just sending me pics as they find them. It's only been a few days.

 

[Greg_L]

The midrange talk inspired me to do an A/B, then it went haywire with gain, so here are the results. Lol.

Angus SG - bridge pickup
Marshall JMP 2204
Bass - 5
Mid - varied
Treb - 7
Preamp vol - 10
Master vol - 4
Double clean boosted with a Boss SD-1 and a Tube Screamer because I'm retarded
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion G12-65
Senn e609 on axis, on grill, just a little past halfway to edge
No EQ or FX in DAW

So the point of all this....
Mids - 3

Mids - 7

Pardon the playing, this is not my thing.

 

[RFR]

Hard to imagine in the context of a mix, but I like clip 2. It hits you right in the face.

 

[Greg_L]

Hard to imagine in the context of a mix, but I like clip 2. It hits you right in the face.

Lol, yeah I suppose that is the idea. Mids hit you in the face.

I'm doing the same goof off with the JCM 800 right now, and it's even more pronounced with that amp. This amp is a fucking beast. It never ceases to amaze me. Best amp ever.

 

[Tadpui]

That actually sound close to his tone on Tribute (the live album, not the studio version with the historically awful tone)

Weird, the difference was actually kinda subtle on my 5.1 system. I'll have to listen on my "real" speakers later.

Now you've got me curious about my 2204S...wonder if I could approach the same kind of tone?

 

[Greg_L]

That actually sound close to his tone on Tribute (the live album, not the studio version with the historically awful tone)

Weird, the difference was actually kinda subtle on my 5.1 system. I'll have to listen on my "real" speakers later.

Now you've got me curious about my 2204S...wonder if I could approach the same kind of tone?

Your 10" speakers might give you fits, but the amp should be able to get in the ballpark. Just going through our versions of the glorious 2204 in my head...mine's older with lower B+ voltages, so it's gonna be warmer and thicker. Yours is a JCM 800 2204, so I'm gonna assume it's gonna be brighter and more aggressive, so maybe cut some highs? I don't know. Give it a try. The double-boost, I believe, is key. It is not something I'd normally do, but hey, that's how Randy did it, so fuck it. I'm actually pretty pleased with that tone for what it is. I didn't think I had it in me.

The differences are fairly subtle "on tape". I'd have to get em in a mix. In the room though, right here next to it, the difference is very obvious. One was pretty smooth and sounded good, the other was punching me in the chest. I liked the violent one better.

 

[minerman]

To be honest, I can't hear a lot of difference between those 2 clips, even with my Sennheiser 280's that I've worn for couple/few hours a day, for over 2 years now...I actually like it dude, it might need some low end/bottom, but it grinds for sure...

 

[Greg_L]

To be honest, I can't hear a lot of difference between those 2 clips, even with my Sennheiser 280's that I've worn for couple/few hours a day, for over 2 years now...I actually like it dude, it might need some low end/bottom, but it grinds for sure...

That's cool. I hear the difference pretty well, but even the almost-scooped mids clip still has plenty there IMO. either is fine for me, but I prefer the higher mids, and both have way too much gain.

 

[jimistone]

Alright, here's a shitty clip I did last night, after listening to it, I think it needs more high end but may be wrong like I am a lot of the time...This is the first time I'd picked up a guitar in about 2 weeks, so there's my excuse....

SG > EVH LBX > EVH Greenback > i5

15w mode
Blue channel

Resonance:...............2
Gain:.......................1
Bass:.......................8
Middle:....................3
Treble:....................5
Volume:..................7
Presence:................5

Shit Clip

Could bump the high/presence and/or get a better mic position, but it's not terrible compared to some of the clips I've posted...

Sounds good miner. It IS mind blowing that the gain was in "1" for this clip. lol. It's a lot of yeah...but it sounds great.

 

[Tadpui]

Hey Greg, what was your presence set at for those clips? I keep finding mine turned all the way down, but I should play with that setting more.

 

[Greg_L]

Hey Greg, what was your presence set at for those clips? I keep finding mine turned all the way down, but I should play with that setting more.

Oh shit I forgot to list it. Um *quick look to the left* it's on 6.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Alright, here's a shitty clip I did last night, after listening to it, I think it needs more high end but may be wrong like I am a lot of the time...This is the first time I'd picked up a guitar in about 2 weeks, so there's my excuse....

SG > EVH LBX > EVH Greenback > i5


Could bump the high/presence and/or get a better mic position, but it's not terrible compared to some of the clips I've posted...

man .... that IS a lotta gain ..... sounds good though .... but I would have to have another amp that had some cleans.

 

[Tadpui]

Alright, here's a shitty clip I did last night, after listening to it, I think it needs more high end but may be wrong like I am a lot of the time...This is the first time I'd picked up a guitar in about 2 weeks, so there's my excuse....

SG > EVH LBX > EVH Greenback > i5

15w mode
Blue channel

Resonance:...............2
Gain:.......................1
Bass:.......................8
Middle:....................3
Treble:....................5
Volume:..................7
Presence:................5

Shit Clip

Could bump the high/presence and/or get a better mic position, but it's not terrible compared to some of the clips I've posted...

I like the low-mids on that amp. When you do that little 1/4 step bend up on the A string 3rd fret, it sounds solid. That amp has a nice cut to it as well, like a Marshall...that punchy attack. It's not voiced like a Marshall at all, but it has that tight attack. But yeah holy hell if that's almost as much as it cleans up, then dayum!

 

[minerman]

That's cool. I hear the difference pretty well, but even the almost-scooped mids clip still has plenty there IMO. either is fine for me, but I prefer the higher mids, and both have way too much gain.

Honestly, I'm about deaf from all the noise I've been exposed to my whole life. I haven't had a hearing test (that I can remember anyway) since about 2006, & I was told then I had about 30% in my left ear gone...I know the 10 years after that it didn't improve any, matter of fact, I'm sure it got worse. Sitting behind that fuckin' miner all those years I know it did, those fuckin' things sound like airplanes when you start the scrubber (basically a big vacum that sucks some of the dust out so you might be able to somewhat see)...

It still sounds good to me though dude...