The New Tone Thread

Greg_L said:
That's pretty good RFR. Especially for a Dual Rec. I like how you included a lot of the little nuances of what Ronson did instead of just playing it basic. Good stuff.
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Thanks man. I just wish the sound guy did a better job. Oh well. At least he was nice enough to at least record the show.

Yeah, not bad for just 1 guitar, bass and drums. With the original, Bowie was doing the acoustic which gave Mick the room to play around. And that's one of those tunes you had at least 'try' to get right. Everyone has how it's 'supposed' to sound burned in their brains:)
Great fun tune to end a show with.
:D
 
RFR said:
Thanks Miner and Lou. :)

Sound guy recorded the show straight off the board. I know a 57 was on the guitar cab, don't know about the rest.

I was using a Strat with a Duncan Hot Rails through a Mesa dual rectifier. No pedals. Guitar is wired up so in position 4 (middle and bridge) its out of phase. Not quite that Ronson Les Paul/Marshall cocked wah tone, but close.

I was overall pleased. That club wouldn't let you use your own gear. (Unless you were stars) They had bass and guitar amps and a drum kit all set up.
I had always hated Boogies after owning a combo , a markII. But the rectifier suprised me. With no sound check it was pretty easy to dial in a usable sound. All controls at 12 O'clock.
Thanks for listening and commenting.
:D
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Thanks for the skinny/info on the setup dude...I've never played through a Boogie, other than a sim/modeler, but I always associated 'em with the downtuned, dumbass cookie monster vocal shit...goes to show I know very little about these amps, & this clip has sparked my interest...

I know Lt. Bob has some sort of Boogie combo that he likes a lot, maybe I need to look into one myself, could solve the clean tone thing I'm missing, plus add another flavor or two of dirt to what I've got...
 
@ Tad. Thank you. Yeah that Mesa wasnt too bad. I generally dislike Boogies, but I'd own one of those dual rectifiers.

@ Greg. Yup! Soundmen. Geez! I think some have the capability to be good, but just don't give a fuck and are burned out....at least in LA anyway. Every night they gotta listen to shitty bands and when a known band comes on they get kicked out cause that band has their own soundguy! Lol.
 
minerman said:
Thanks for the skinny/info on the setup dude...I've never played through a Boogie, other than a sim/modeler, but I always associated 'em with the downtuned, dumbass cookie monster vocal shit...goes to show I know very little about these amps, & this clip has sparked my interest...
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Miner dont get me wrong. I dont think Boogies are shit. To the contrary, they are very versatile amps. Well built too.
The problem i have with the combos is that they are TOO complicated. You change one pot and the gain structure is all different. Every knob you touch changes something else.
Me, I'm a guitar cord and amp guy. Sometimes I'll bring a wah. I like simplicity.

The Dual was cool because I just set the controls just like my Soldano modded Marshall. Everything at high noon. Immediately I got a usable familiar tone.
 
RFR said:
Miner dont get me wrong. I dont think Boogies are shit. To the contrary, they are very versatile amps. Well built too.
The problem i have with the combos is that they are TOO complicated. You change one pot and the gain structure is all different. Every knob you touch changes something else.
Me, I'm a guitar cord and amp guy. Sometimes I'll bring a wah. I like simplicity.

The Dual was cool because I just set the controls just like my Soldano modded Marshall. Everything at high noon. Immediately I got a usable familiar tone.
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Oh man, I wasn't implying that Boogies are shit, just the down-tuned cookie monster vocal-based music I've always associated 'em with is what I was calling shit...:laughings:

I've read/heard these amps are built like tanks, but they're not cheap, even for the little 25w versions...

I've also read/heard about the interactive tone stack thing too, but again, I've never played through one, other than the ampsim versions...

While I still dig my little EVH amp/cab, & it covers the gain-y stuff, I still lack a true clean tone from my amp...That makes me miss my big amps I've had to let go of, but maybe a Boogie might fill the space I'm looking for plus add another flavor or two...
 
got a couple of Mesa's ..... my main amp is the Blue Angel which is NOT complicated..... single channel .... doesn't even have a master volume .. volume, treble, middle, bass, reverb .... that's it.
Also have a Mark V which I suppose is complicated though I don't find it to be so.

Main thing I like is that they pretty much work every time.
 
@ miner. Haha! It's me that has always come across as a Boogie- basher, not you. :D
They're good amps but have been profiled as the stuff that meatheads play. You know the Nickleback/ boogie/ PRS stuff. That and Santana. Who peaked at Abraxis. ( just my opinion)
:D
But a Boogie is worth getting if you have patience to get through the Boogie learning curve. And the money. :D

But, like anything, whatever amp someone uses, they'll still sound like themselves.
 
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I'd really like a Boogie but they are prohibitively expensive for my needs. The mini-head is about £1200 quid which above what I am willing to spend - way above! The limit of what I'm willing to go for is about £850 quid for a Victory, while I know I like their drive sound I know next to nothing about their clean - and most of the good demos are done by Guthrie Govern and Rabea. Those guys would sound good playing through anything. I've only had a quick go through one myself and heard a mate play live.

Miner, why don't you consider a nice big solid state amp for your clean tone - something like a Roland Jazz Chorus or Fender Power Chorus. You can probably pick the Fender up for peanuts. Peavey are bound to have a range of stuff that would fit the bill too.
 
I've never really been a fan of the Mesa single/dual/triple Rec overdrive sound. I don't know how to describe it, but "empty" is what comes to mind for me. It sounds hollow. It's basically the exact sonic opposite of the brit-style sounds I prefer for pretty much anything. If a Marshall's EQ graph is a mountain of midrange, a Mesa is a smiley face of scooped mids. Mesas are great for what they do and they're very high quality. I just don't like their overdrive sound. I know one thing for sure, I see and hear dual-guitar bands all the time. One guy will have a Marshall, and the other a Mesa. Guess which one is easy to hear? The Marshall. Yay!

But that's mainly Dual Rectifiers. The other Mesas, like the Mark V, are pretty bad ass...and relatively complicated. And they're all expensive. I saw this country band a while back with a backline of Mesa Mark V combos. It looked funny, all these little amps lined up, but it sounded fantastic. Those amps are great for cleans and medium crunch. The songs sucked shit, but their tones were fantastic.
 
Greg, I know Chappers and the Captain get on your tits but I thought you might like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADKF4D-TqLE
Blindfolded can they tell the difference between the sound of Gibson and Epiphone 335s, LPs, and SGs.

Obviously in the office I'm just listening to it so its interesting whether I can tell the difference myself.
 
I thought you'd say that! I just listen to a shit load of YouTube while at work.

I've done another mix of that track if you could take a listen when you get a mo that would be great. Had a think about a few comments that you and a mate of mine made about it and think it sounds a little better now - just less cluttered.
 
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I've been looking at those 10/25/35w Mesa amps, but fuck, $1500 is way too much for an amp like that for me...I was thinking more along the lines of the Fender Bassbreaker heads, that should give me the solid clean I'm looking for, & from what I've read, the gain tones from those amps are pretty fair too...

Noise ain't gonna be a problem forever for me either, so I could end up getting another EL34-based amp, or similar...I had to do what I had to because I'm a poor country boy from the hills of Virginia, but I sure as fuck miss the 2 EL34-based amps I had to get rid of...:(
 
minerman said:
I've been looking at those 10/25/35w Mesa amps, but fuck, $1500 is way too much for an amp like that for me...I was thinking more along the lines of the Fender Bassbreaker heads, that should give me the solid clean I'm looking for, & from what I've read, the gain tones from those amps are pretty fair too...

Noise ain't gonna be a problem forever for me either, so I could end up getting another EL34-based amp, or similar...I had to do what I had to because I'm a poor country boy from the hills of Virginia, but I sure as fuck miss the 2 EL34-based amps I had to get rid of...:(
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Miner, I think the Bassbreaker which has the really good drive tone is actually single channel so you might still struggle to get something both loud and crystal clear out of it.
 
Greg_L said:
a Marshall's EQ graph is a mountain of midrange, .
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Interestingly I just read an article about scooped mids and part of it was charts showing the freq response curves of Marshall and Fender amps and it was shocking ..... even with the mids all the way up, a Marshall (and apparently all other amps ) has a scooped mid!
The Fender, of course, was much more scooped.
Even at it's most midrangey settings a Marshall's mids were scooped.

So when metaltards scoop the mids .... they're SUPER-scooped

I'll try to find links to the article or at least the charts .... I think you'll find it interesting and surprising.

I know amps pretty well but I had no idea how scooped mids are on even Marshalls.

As for Mesa Dual Rectifiers ..... I can't say anything about them since I haven't used one ..... but they are aimed for a particular crowd.

There's just so many different Mesas.
No one remarked on it but the Mesa Blue Angel is as simple as it gets.
The only way it could get more basic is if it only had a tone control instead of Treble, Mid, Bass.
None of ya'lls amps are simpler .....

And those Bluesbreakers look pretty expensive to me for what you get.
 
Alright, here's a shitty clip I did last night, after listening to it, I think it needs more high end but may be wrong like I am a lot of the time...This is the first time I'd picked up a guitar in about 2 weeks, so there's my excuse....:D

SG > EVH LBX > EVH Greenback > i5

15w mode
Blue channel

Resonance:...............2
Gain:.......................1
Bass:.......................8
Middle:....................3
Treble:....................5
Volume:..................7
Presence:................5

Shit Clip

Could bump the high/presence and/or get a better mic position, but it's not terrible compared to some of the clips I've posted...:)
 
Miner, I think that's generally really good, sounds spot on for the sort of music you normally play although in places there appeared to be a slight "buzziness" to it - not sure how to describe it but it was more apparent when you were strumming chords.

Gain = 1. Jesus fuck! How much gain does this amp have?
Come on, keep the settings the same, give us gain = 10 in drop D just for shits and giggles.
 
Lt. Bob said:
Interestingly I just read an article about scooped mids and part of it was charts showing the freq response curves of Marshall and Fender amps and it was shocking ..... even with the mids all the way up, a Marshall (and apparently all other amps ) has a scooped mid!
The Fender, of course, was much more scooped.
Even at it's most midrangey settings a Marshall's mids were scooped.

So when metaltards scoop the mids .... they're SUPER-scooped

I'll try to find links to the article or at least the charts .... I think you'll find it interesting and surprising.
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Yeah send me the link. I'd love to read it. I can believe it because I see it when I track amps. If you look at the EQ on a spectrum analyzer, you can see a little dip in the mids from any amp. Speakers play a role, but it's there. Hell you can see it on any generic speaker graph.

I think, just my personal observation, Marshalls and other "british" amps may cut and have better perceived midrange because of how they distort. "American" style amps like Fenders and Mesas have huge exaggerated bottom and high ends and the mids kind of get left alone. And they often utilize power tubes that enhance big bottom ends and glassy highs. I think that may be why the Vintage 30 is the preferred speaker for heavy Mesa sounds. The V30 helps the mids. A Marshall is the opposite. Orange and Vox too. A typical EL34-tubed Marshall has a pretty tight bottom and clean-ish top end. Most of it's grunt comes from the mids/upper mids. Orange amps are thick in lower mids. Scoop the mids on a Marshall or Orange and you still have a ton of midrange sound to play with. I'm not a mid-scooper by any means, but I rarely find myself needing to run my mids past 5 or 6 for anything. It's just too much of a good thing.

I'm looking at the two amps I used last weekend, still set at their gig EQ....
JCM 800 - Bass 7 - Mid 5 - Treb 4
JMP 2204 - Bass 5 - Mid 4 - Treb 6

So average mids, no one that I talked to had any trouble hearing me.
 
Lt. Bob said:
Interestingly I just read an article about scooped mids and part of it was charts showing the freq response curves of Marshall and Fender amps and it was shocking ..... even with the mids all the way up, a Marshall (and apparently all other amps ) has a scooped mid!
The Fender, of course, was much more scooped.
Even at it's most midrangey settings a Marshall's mids were scooped.

So when metaltards scoop the mids .... they're SUPER-scooped

I'll try to find links to the article or at least the charts .... I think you'll find it interesting and surprising.

I know amps pretty well but I had no idea how scooped mids are on even Marshalls.

As for Mesa Dual Rectifiers ..... I can't say anything about them since I haven't used one ..... but they are aimed for a particular crowd.

There's just so many different Mesas.
No one remarked on it but the Mesa Blue Angel is as simple as it gets.
The only way it could get more basic is if it only had a tone control instead of Treble, Mid, Bass.
None of ya'lls amps are simpler .....

And those Bluesbreakers look pretty expensive to me for what you get.
Click to expand...

That is quite shocking to me for the mids on a Marshall amp Bob...I knew you had a Mesa, but couldn't remember which, but I do remember you like it quite a bit...

The Bluesbreaker may not work for what I'm after, I dunno man....Going back a couple years is about where I'm at now, & the solution then (and probably now) was a bigger amp with more power/headroom...

All the Mesa amps look killer, have tons of features, & probably all sound good, but holy fuck they're expensive...
 
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