The New Tone Thread

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Rami.
Tone to the bone!
Your syncopated rhythms always leave me jaw dropped.
The intro really is a tour of valved rock.
An excellent chunk of funked rock.
Every thing sparkles and grunts.
Cool song and very fine recording.
 
Lt. Bob said:
Nitzinger!!

I like this .... funky as usual .... glad to see ya' back!
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minerman said:
Song sounds great RAMI...that's what I expected, but this one seems to be a little better all 'round dude, super job!!!

Welcome back!!!
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rayc said:
Rami.
Tone to the bone!
Your syncopated rhythms always leave me jaw dropped.
The intro really is a tour of valved rock.
An excellent chunk of funked rock.
Every thing sparkles and grunts.
Cool song and very fine recording.
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JDOD said:
RAMI, can you post up what amp/mic combinations you used? How you placed your mics, what you did with panning/reverb etc? And explain why you did what you did!

This would be generally helpful when people post mixes that are genuinely shit hot as it would give the rest of us good ideas as to what techniques we could use, what things may work in what situations etc.
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Thanx guys. Man, I'm surprised and a little embarrassed that you guys think it sounds so good. I feel like an outsider in the Tone thread because I'm not really a guitar player. So, it's kind of awkward for ME to be telling YOU guys how I recorded my guitar. :eek: :)

OK, so from what I remember (I never document anything, I don't use templates, etc...I always start every project from scratch).

I think the 2 doubled and panned rythms gitars were with my Epiphone SG on one side and my Gibson SG on the other.

My amp, which I had almost given up on as witnessed by the earlier versions I posted of this tune, is a Fender Super Champ X2. It's a modelling amp, so you're sort of stuck with what it gives you unless you use your USB and access the software that comes with it.

For this tune, first of all I cranked the amp as loud as it goes. I always recorded with the volume on about 7. For this tune, I recorded with the amp at 10, I think that made a huge difference. You need volume, no matter what anyone says. I used an "80s British (Marshall JCM800)" pre-set. I put my SM57 about an inch away from dead center of the speaker, hit RECORD, and Bob's your uncle.

I'm finally starting to get to know this amp. But to be honest, had I known it was a modelling amp when I bought it, I would have never bought it.

I even tried a trial version of Samplitube for a while, but scrapped that idea. I'm still thinking about getting a "Real" amp. The thing about these modelling amps is that you can have the gain on 2 or 10 and it pretty much sounds the same. You only hear a difference when you go down to 1 on the gain. So, I really wouldn't recommend this amp to anyone. But after a lot of trial, error and frustration, I guess I got it to work for me.
 
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RAMI, 2 things:

1. Great tune! And excellent job on the recording. Both are top notch.

2. A couple of my friends occasionally use a Fender modeling amp (forget the models but one of them is a Mustang something). They almost always use the black face Deluxe preset and tweak that. They have comments similar to yours regarding the gain on the other presets but they all feel the Deluxe presets (when tweaked) won't take the tone out of your guitar and you can get reasonable tones. Having said all that, they only play live and I've never recorded them so I have no idea how that would turn out.
 
Bill L said:
RAMI, 2 things:

1. Great tune! And excellent job on the recording. Both are top notch.
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Thanx a lot Bill! :cool:
2. A couple of my friends occasionally use a Fender modeling amp (forget the models but one of them is a Mustang something). They almost always use the black face Deluxe preset and tweak that. They have comments similar to yours regarding the gain on the other presets but they all feel the Deluxe presets (when tweaked) won't take the tone out of your guitar and you can get reasonable tones. Having said all that, they only play live and I've never recorded them so I have no idea how that would turn out.
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Yeah, that's my experience with it, too. It actually has great clean sounds. It's the distorted sounds that are very limiting to me. By using the software that comes with it (Fender FUSE), I was able to match different (virtual) amps with different (virtual) cabs, and finally found a couple of good combos.

Channel 1 is just clean, it's supposed to be a "Original BlackFace" something or another. Great clean sound.

Channel 2 has 16 pre-sets, some of them clean, like a "Fender Tweed", "Twin" or "Bassman"...but none of them really sound like what they're supposed to be emulating unless you tweak the crap out of them.

Probably going to get a little Marshall. I've always said that if I can sound like Angus Young on 99% of my songs, I'd be happy with that tone.
 
RAMI said:
You need volume, no matter what anyone says.
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I think Tone Thread regulars know this already. I try to tell people to be louder, but it just makes me a dick in the eyes of the ignorant and woefully inexperienced. If you're playing anything that falls under the umbrella of rock and roll, record it like it's rock and roll. It makes a difference. If you're playing jazz or sleepy adult contemporary dentist office music, the use your non-threatening micro amps at low volumes.
 
Greg_L said:
I think Tone Thread regulars know this already. I try to tell people to be louder, but it just makes me a dick in the eyes of the ignorant and woefully inexperienced. If you're playing anything that falls under the umbrella of rock and roll, record it like it's rock and roll. It makes a difference. If you're playing jazz or sleepy adult contemporary dentist office music, the use your non-threatening micro amps at low volumes.
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That's the troof, the whole troof, and nuffin' but the troof.
 
Have a I bitched about soundguys recently? Well, let me throw one out. I generally hate soundguys because they're predominantly ignorant flunkees. Last night I had another shitty one, because seemingly they can't not be shitty.
 
Greg_L said:
Have a I bitched about soundguys recently? Well, let me throw one out. I generally hate soundguys because they're predominantly ignorant flunkees. Last night I had another shitty one, because seemingly they can't not be shitty.
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When I gigged when I was younger we didn't have sound guys, we just used our amps and played in "loud rehearsal mode" or with a small PA. gigging last year the sound guys were generally great! I'd not gigged with a sound guy and I'd heard the horror stories but I was generally pleased with them. One guy was shite though, I couldn't here a fucking thing, at one point I was keeping time by watching the drummer's arms.

The most important gig though was in a pro music venue and the guy really knew his shit and took time into everyone was happy with their monitoring and the singers boyfriend and one of the backing singers were sure that we sounded right, how we're supposed to.
 
For a few years, after playing in "bigger budget" bands that had a sound man, a light guy, a follow spot guy, roadies, etc......I put together "lower budget" bands that played smaller venues but also had almost no overhead. Made more money in those "no overhead" bands than I ever did in the "big bands".

But anyway, I was known around Montreal as the drummer that played drums, sang lead, worked the lights with his foot and worked the sound board with one hand. It would blow people away.

Fuck, I lost my train of thought and can't even remember what my point was going to be.....something about doing sound and stage volume.......I'll be back. I'm losing my mind.
 
Oh yeah!!!! I remember.....I was going to say that, rather than fight with the guitar player about his volume, I just let him get comfortable (within reason) and then if it meant not putting him through the P.A., then so be it. The audience doesn't know or care where the guitar is coming from. In a small or medium sized club, it's not imperative that the guitar even comes through the house. If his stage volume is enough, then that's where the guitar will come from.
 
RAMI said:
Oh yeah!!!! I remember.....I was going to say that, rather than fight with the guitar player about his volume, I just let him get comfortable (within reason) and then if it meant not putting him through the P.A., then so be it. The audience doesn't know or care where the guitar is coming from. In a small or medium sized club, it's not imperative that the guitar even comes through the house. If his stage volume is enough, then that's where the guitar will come from.
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I'd love that!

I'm playing these mid-level venues with "house" sound guys. Some of them have great dudes, well four of them, have great soundguys. They're consistent and they do their job. Most of them are total disgruntled musician wannabe hacks that can't work the controls, won't work the controls, and can't provide for the specific needs of the people on stage. I'm playing 100 watt Marshalls that I can't hear because I've been asked to tame them to work within the restraints of the soundman's equipment, but he won't or can't give it back to me in my stage wedges. Maybe I should be lame and invest in some in-ear monitors.
 
Greg_L said:
I'd love that!

I'm playing these mid-level venues with "house" sound guys. Some of them have great dudes, well four of them, have great soundguys. They're consistent and they do their job. Most of them are total disgruntled musician wannabe hacks that can't work the controls, won't work the controls, and can't provide for the specific needs of the people on stage. I'm playing 100 watt Marshalls that I can't hear because I've been asked to tame them to work within the restraints of the soundman's equipment, but he won't or can't give it back to me in my stage wedges. Maybe I should be lame and invest in some in-ear monitors.
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They'd probably protect your ears a bit too, mate.
 
JDOD said:
They'd probably protect your ears a bit too, mate.
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My ears are worse today with last night's crappy sound than they ever are with good sound, even with my amps turned up. Why? Because all I heard on stage was drums pounding away right behind me. There was no balance. The guitars and bass were lost in this quiet mush while the drums were beating the shit out of us. Look, you can't turn down drums. And I love a hard hitter. But without bass and guitars to balance it all out, it's actually more annoying on the ears.
 
JDOD said:
Come on, Greg. Give us a shit sound guy story.
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Okay, quickie....last nite...hold on let me back up. This venue is Houston famous and has been going through a tough time with bad tenants and gentrification of the area. Noise complaints and liquor license problems are an ongoing battle. Anyway, last night was I think the re-opening after a brief hiatus due to some idiotic vandalism. With noise complaints being the main concern, the soundguy instructed us to face our amps inward. Stupid, but not completely irrational. I've done this before. So I oblige and he mics me up and we fire it up. I'm way too loud for him. Even with the amp facing sideways. I'm like regular rock band practice/gig loud. The same loud I always am. The same loud that no other place has a problem with. It's too loud for his pissant preamps, or mixing desk, or whatever the fuck kind of mickey mouse gear he's using to run sound. It's overloading his input an he can't control it. So I have to turn it way down. Stupider, but still not that big a deal....except that my amp isn't facing me anymore. It's turned sideways like a fucking retard and now it's also turned down. So I'm hearing nothing unless I'm playing by myself. But it's not blowing up his board or getting the cops called, so I reluctantly go along with it hoping and praying that he gives me a good monitor mix. He doesn't. He can't. He gives me what he can, which isn't enough to conquer the drums bashing right behind me unless I'm literally standing on top of the wedge. The drummer can't hear the rest of us, the rest of us can't hear ourselves, God only knows what the crowd is hearing. The only good thing about it is that no one ever sounds good in this room, so whatever. The band after us sounded like ass and had the same complaints we did, so it aint me, it aint us. We usually do fine. It's the soundguy. He sucks. They pretty much all suck.
 
I was in bands from about late 1986 until about early 2000, just guessing about 10 different bands (which for the most part was the same people that rotated around from one band to the next). The last band I was in (1998 - 2000) was a pretty big fish in a small pond, & they were pretty much all family, so the drummer/singer's dad ran the sound. He used to play guitar/sing, but had given it up mainly because he just wasn't a musician. I do have to say, this guy was pretty good at running his equipment. If you needed monitors, he'd give 'em to you. For the occasional "big" gig, we'd mic the amps, & run the bass line-out. The drummer used triggers on every show, & he could pretty much control the overall loudness with the pa. I think it worked great with that band back then.

The sound guy ("Fudd" was his nickname) would occasionally have to escort a drunk away from the pa, I saw him do that quite a few times, mostly at one little shit-hole we played every month. I couldn't figure it out though, Fudd was about 6' 6", & probably weighed like 250-270 lbs, he's a big fucker, & he's not fat, just a big 'ol country boy who happens to be as strong as a bear. These drunks would always seem to mess with him, & that was a bad thing, for them. He'd literally pick them up, carry them to the door, & "help" them outside...None of the bars/gigs I played ever had bouncers, ever...

But all the other bands I was in, we had the pa on the stage & tried to run sound from there. Sometimes it sounded good, sometimes not. I personally think you have to have a guy at the back of the room running the pa/sound or you're just guessing.
 
Greg_L said:
Okay, quickie....last nite...hold on let me back up. This venue is Houston famous and has been going through a tough time with bad tenants and gentrification of the area. Noise complaints and liquor license problems are an ongoing battle. Anyway, last night was I think the re-opening after a brief hiatus due to some idiotic vandalism. With noise complaints being the main concern, the soundguy instructed us to face our amps inward. Stupid, but not completely irrational. I've done this before. So I oblige and he mics me up and we fire it up. I'm way too loud for him. Even with the amp facing sideways. I'm like regular rock band practice/gig loud. The same loud I always am. The same loud that no other place has a problem with. It's too loud for his pissant preamps, or mixing desk, or whatever the fuck kind of mickey mouse gear he's using to run sound. It's overloading his input an he can't control it. So I have to turn it way down. Stupider, but still not that big a deal....except that my amp isn't facing me anymore. It's turned sideways like a fucking retard and now it's also turned down. So I'm hearing nothing unless I'm playing by myself. But it's not blowing up his board or getting the cops called, so I reluctantly go along with it hoping and praying that he gives me a good monitor mix. He doesn't. He can't. He gives me what he can, which isn't enough to conquer the drums bashing right behind me unless I'm literally standing on top of the wedge. The drummer can't hear the rest of us, the rest of us can't hear ourselves, God only knows what the crowd is hearing. The only good thing about it is that no one ever sounds good in this room, so whatever. The band after us sounded like ass and had the same complaints we did, so it aint me, it aint us. We usually do fine. It's the soundguy. He sucks. They pretty much all suck.
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I would've had a meltdown.

Been practising our set with the JVM yesterday and today. I'm getting there, now. OD1 and OD2 I hardly have any gain on at all and on green mode mostly. Who needs that much gain? Two gainier modes and another six or seven numbers to go up on the knob. Insane! :D I'm glad I've practised with it, though... cos another thing I've noticed is that the switches are quite close together. Me and my size ten Doc Martens are gonna have trouble. :D

It's a little early for me to post tones, but I will do soon. :)
 
Greg, have you checked that link I left for you?
Bubba,
you've been auditioning for Big Foot the musical?
A kid in my class (11years old) wears Docs four days a week - wears joggers for sport. Guess what her nickname is? Yep, Doc.
 
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