The New Tone Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Telegram Sam
  • Start date Start date
RAMI said:
Quick question, not to de-rail the thread. (As if I'm going to de-rail a 5oo page thread. :D)

I saw a pretty good deal on a Fender Princeton 650 for about $200. But the price isn't really the issue. I already have a Fender Champ X2. Is the Princeton potentially different/better enough to justify getting it?

I'm guessing that, if I'm going to get a second amp, go for something more different, like a Marshall or something, right?
Click to expand...

You're actually in danger of bringing the thread back on topic.
 
RAMI said:
Quick question, not to de-rail the thread. (As if I'm going to de-rail a 5oo page thread. :D)

I saw a pretty good deal on a Fender Princeton 650 for about $200. But the price isn't really the issue. I already have a Fender Champ X2. Is the Princeton potentially different/better enough to justify getting it?

I'm guessing that, if I'm going to get a second amp, go for something more different, like a Marshall or something, right?
Click to expand...

Lt. Bob said:
yeppers .... besides, that 650 is a solid state amp (did you not notice that?) ..... your X2 will do the Fender thing far better and is probably about as loud.

Plus if it's primarily for recording then IMO it might be useful to have another flavor of amp available.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this^^.

But also, all Fender amps don't sound the same. Not even close. If you had a chance to replace your Super with a Blackface Princeton, SR, Bandmaster, Bassman, or Twin Reverb from that era, that's something you'd want to consider. But good luck finding one for $200.
 
Last edited:
Lt. Bob said:
this is the 650 which is a solid state thing ....
Click to expand...

Ah, I see. No, didn't notice that. I would have figured it out at some point before placing an order, because I didn't do much reading on it yet that I would have eventually done. Thanx, that pretty much settles that. I have a tube amp in the Champ.
 
Last edited:
rayc said:
Sorry Chaps.
This should represent a more even set of levels.
1st section is pretty straight & 2nd has some level boost before the amp with a Boss pedal & a little bit of OD on the right side - & I mean a little bit.
Which sounds better?
Click to expand...
still like the second one better but they sound VERY similar to me ..... the second one 'pops' a little more which may or may not be what you want.
In a mix if you want the part to just be there without drawing attention I'd use the first one but if the part is important and meant to be prominent I'd use the second one.
 
ShanPeyton said:
I CONCUR 100% I may have to just bite the bullet and buy the whole record i think.
Click to expand...

Yeah man. My new favorite band. It might only last a week knowing me. But for now, I'm really digging these tunes. Fresh, original, driving....with attitude. Great stuff.
 
rayc said:
Sorry Chaps.
This should represent a more even set of levels.
1st section is pretty straight & 2nd has some level boost before the amp with a Boss pedal & a little bit of OD on the right side - & I mean a little bit.
Which sounds better?
Click to expand...


I like the second one better today. But i am listening on ear buds. I'll give it another spin tonight on the monitors but the second sits in there great.


LT.Bob: Good piece of info on the solid state. I didn't really dig that deep into it. Good sleuthing there, sir.
 
I actually Googled it when I first saw the post, cuz I was like "wtf is a 650?", and a used one came up for $100.
 

I tried out some more stuff

This is the same tone through 3 different cabinet voicings
I'm note sure which one is which anymore but it was a V30, a Greenback and something just called "metal".
 
I actually like the first tone pretty good Schwarz, the the last 2 not so much myself....
 
First tone was pretty rad Schwarz. Still had that one dimensional feel that I hear with my Sims. But i think in the right song/mix you'd be hard pressed to hear the difference.
 
I'm wondering if turning off the gate and leaving a small reverb on would help.
The gates are so ridiculously tight on this thing. There is absolutely no noise, no matter how much gain you use.

Thanks for listening
 
Schwarzenyaeger said:
I'm wondering if turning off the gate and leaving a small reverb on would help.
The gates are so ridiculously tight on this thing. There is absolutely no noise, no matter how much gain you use.

Thanks for listening
Click to expand...

Hmm. After years of tinkering with sims, albeit an old Podx3 and other stuff, i find it very hard to simulate that movement of air feel. Yes, you are correct, you can (sort of) circumvent that issue by adding a touch of verb, simulated "room space" or backing your "mic" off a little bit. But it just seems to lack that bit of special 'air' feel. I don't think there is a fix for it just yet. You can get close. Real close. But if you A-B it a sim it's pretty hard.

I actually have a fun excercise i am going to do this weekend, and i am downloading Amplitube Orange AD30 Sim and i am going to A-B it with my own physical AD-30 just so i can show myself the difference.

Who knows, i may end up surprising myself?
 
In another note, i started tinkering with a Plexi sim and i am surprising myself. I really freakin like the tones i am getting out of it. It's just a really beefy sim. I have to back the bass knob back to like 2, and it still woofs and pumps. But i can see myself making use of that on some of the newer projects i got cooking up.
 
ShanPeyton said:
In another note, i started tinkering with a Plexi sim and i am surprising myself. I really freakin like the tones i am getting out of it. It's just a really beefy sim. I have to back the bass knob back to like 2, and it still woofs and pumps. But i can see myself making use of that on some of the newer projects i got cooking up.
Click to expand...

Backing the bass knob off on a real Plexi is usually pretty good too. The tone controls on a Super Lead are very interactive. They overlap a lot, and they come before the gain stages, so they act quite different from a more modern amp. And the more you crank it, the fatter it gets. Blend the volumes, the fatter it gets. A lot of guys roll the bass all the way off and use the "normal" channel to blend in some beef. If you're using a humbucker and blending channels, roll that bass knob down.
 
Greg_L said:
Backing the bass knob off on a real Plexi is usually pretty good too. The tone controls on a Super Lead are very interactive. They overlap a lot, and they come before the gain stages, so they act quite different from a more modern amp. And the more you crank it, the fatter it gets. Blend the volumes, the fatter it gets. A lot of guys roll the bass all the way off and use the "normal" channel to blend in some beef. If you're using a humbucker and blending channels, roll that bass knob down.
Click to expand...

MAN!!! it is so weird you say that. I don't know how much of the real life science goes into a make believe amp sim, but god dam Greg, all that stuff you just said applies to what i noticed last night screwing around with the Plexi sim! The more 'volume' i added to the sim the more fat and woofy it got. I have it at 100% ( I assume that's like a 10 on a master volume knob) and i actually had the bass knob, well, off essentially. I have noticed that some of the other sims respond like that as well? I'll have to read a little deeper as to what the sim is actually simulating. Maybe it is a superlead? Interesting, the hiwatt sim i love the most i find that if i increase the mid on it i also notice an increase of bass. So if i tweak my mid up i need to dial back the bass. I wonder if the real life model would respond in the same way?

Which calls into question, when a company makes a sim, do they actually reproduce all the electrical stuff exactly like the model they are simulating? based on the little bits i have seen i'd be inclined to say yes, but that seems like a lot of work.
 
ShanPeyton said:
The more 'volume' i added to the sim the more fat and woofy it got.

.........


Which calls into question, when a company makes a sim, do they actually reproduce all the electrical stuff exactly like the model they are simulating? based on the little bits i have seen i'd be inclined to say yes, but that seems like a lot of work.
Click to expand...

A lot of tube amps respond that way...the more you crank the fatter the tone...which is also why a lot of guys like to play/record with their amps turned up. Most seem to have a sweet spot between say 12-1:00 and fully dimed...and you find the spot that works for you.
If you dial back a tube amp too far it can get thin/wimpy.


AFA sims...well, good code writers will try and nail every aspect of a real amp....but IMO, even the best code can only do so much to simulate the real thing.
 
ShanPeyton said:
MAN!!! it is so weird you say that. I don't know how much of the real life science goes into a make believe amp sim, but god dam Greg, all that stuff you just said applies to what i noticed last night screwing around with the Plexi sim! The more 'volume' i added to the sim the more fat and woofy it got. I have it at 100% ( I assume that's like a 10 on a master volume knob) and i actually had the bass knob, well, off essentially. I have noticed that some of the other sims respond like that as well? I'll have to read a little deeper as to what the sim is actually simulating. Maybe it is a superlead? Interesting, the hiwatt sim i love the most i find that if i increase the mid on it i also notice an increase of bass. So if i tweak my mid up i need to dial back the bass. I wonder if the real life model would respond in the same way?

Which calls into question, when a company makes a sim, do they actually reproduce all the electrical stuff exactly like the model they are simulating? based on the little bits i have seen i'd be inclined to say yes, but that seems like a lot of work.
Click to expand...

Plexi is just a nickname for a specific era of plexiglass panel Marshall Super Lead amps. Super Lead meaning no master volume. The volume knobs are actually more like gain knobs with the amp volume permanently on "10". Super Leads are 100 watts, Leads are 50 watts. Super Leads in general changed a lot over their original run, so there's no telling what era your sim is simulating. Even the narrow window of actual Plexis had a lot of variation. I'm assuming your sim is just kind of a general Super Lead style. With most amps, the louder you crank it, the less bass you need.

The good amp sim programmers do seem to do their homework. They can't nail the nuances of a speaker moving air, but they usually get the general voicing of a style of amp pretty accurately.
 
Here is a little clip of the Plexi I was talking about.

The book says that this sim is based off of a "Marshall JTM 45 'Block logo' head complete with a gold Plexiglass front panel" :confused: For a simulated set up i have a 4x12 Cab with Celestion T75's a SM57 Backed of to 66% In Line6 language. It's a sim. I had a condensor mic on there but it REALLY fattened up the bottom end like really bad. I think with a bit of tweaking i could find a use for this sim.

Too fast for even wanting to try
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top