The New Tone Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Telegram Sam
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There is one pretty modern Marshall 4x12 cab that I think has been discontinued, not many people talk about, and you see them for good prices used from time to time. The Mode 4 cab. The Mode 4 heads mostly sucked, but the cabs are pretty cool if you're interested in a big modern sound on a budget. They're oversized 4x12 cabs with "special" Marshall voiced Vintage 30s. They're like Marshall's semi budget oriented answer to the giant Mesa V30 cabs. I think they're bigger than standard 1960 cabs and way less expensive than a Vintage 30 loaded 1960 cab. Some people complain about the sound of these cabs, but they're almost always paired with a shitty head being being played by a shitty player playing shitty music. I know a guy that uses one and he sounds like ass, but it's not the cabs fault. I've plugged into these cabs at music shops and thought they sounded fine if a modern rock sound is the goal. You won't sound like Jimmy Page or Hendrix with this cab, but you can sound like Godsmack or Five Finger Dick Punch some shit like that, and they're cheap.
 
minerman said:
JVM Forum • View topic - Low Gain mod for JVM1 50th Anniversary?

Here's the one Jonny was talking about, dunno if my DSL-1 would be like this or not, but if so, looks really simple to do....
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link, looks like something to consider according to the post.....

"R33 piggybacked with an other 220k (plate resistor 108k with my multimeter)
And I must say this is the way and it sound GREAT!!!!
The sound is more open with less compression and for the gain use, before the mod I never turn it up more than 3 and half, now it seems to me I can go to 6 and more! It sound close to my JVM 205h (orange OD)"

I might consider trying a different plate resistor for the piggyback to lessen the gain reduction slightly less, because unlike the OP who wouldn't go past 3, I typically run my gain at about 6 right now in stock form. Anything higher than that gets a little too much for me.

I like the idea of a more open sound with less compression, so I may do this mod after consulting with an amp guy I know.

Thanks again.
 
Greg_L said:
Are you really interested in that amp? Or just curious?
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Haha, I'm mostly curious. If it turns out to be a great deal, I'd consider it for the future when such an amp is more practical for me to use, but it would have to be some great deal. This one is too far away for me to go look at it, so nothing will come of this, I would think.
 
jonny deep said:
Haha, I'm mostly curious. If it turns out to be a great deal, I'd consider it for the future when such an amp is more practical for me to use, but it would have to be some great deal. This one is too far away for me to go look at it, so nothing will come of this, I would think.
Click to expand...

If it's functioning properly with no mods or issues, that price is a great deal for that amp. It's just not one of THE 800s. I bet your JCM-1 sounds more "authentic". Seriously! :D

I'm not trying to dissuade you. Lol. I'm just saying....sound-wise, the closest kin to those two channel 800s are the JCM 900s. JCM 900s were born from the two-channel 800s. It's not at all a bad sound, it's just not the classic 800 sound.

I've had two JCM 900 MkIIIs. The MkIII was the very next evolutionary step from two channel 800 into the 900 line up. One of my MkIIIs was a dud, the other was killer. A great amp, but mine had been upgraded with better transformers and a reworked tone stack. It had little elements of the 800 sound, but it really was it's own animal and much more similar to the two channel 800s than the classics. It was not a bedroom amp. It had to be crazy loud to sound just right. It was relatively awful at lower volumes.
 
wavewarrior said:
Thanks for the link, looks like something to consider according to the post.....

"R33 piggybacked with an other 220k (plate resistor 108k with my multimeter)
And I must say this is the way and it sound GREAT!!!!
The sound is more open with less compression and for the gain use, before the mod I never turn it up more than 3 and half, now it seems to me I can go to 6 and more! It sound close to my JVM 205h (orange OD)"

I might consider trying a different plate resistor for the piggyback to lessen the gain reduction slightly less, because unlike the OP who wouldn't go past 3, I typically run my gain at about 6 right now in stock form. Anything higher than that gets a little too much for me.

I like the idea of a more open sound with less compression, so I may do this mod after consulting with an amp guy I know.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

You're talking about modding your DSL-1, right??? If so, please do keep me informed about this man, what the mods were, what they did to the tone/sound, & of course, pics & clips if you do get this rolling....As far as soldering a resistior piggy-backed like in that thread, I'm pretty sure I'd have no problem doing it, I just wanna make sure the DSL-1 is pretty much the same as the JVM-1, circut-wise....Thanks, & again keep me posted on what you find....
 
minerman said:
You're talking about modding your DSL-1, right??? If so, please do keep me informed about this man, what the mods were, what they did to the tone/sound, & of course, pics & clips if you do get this rolling....As far as soldering a resistior piggy-backed like in that thread, I'm pretty sure I'd have no problem doing it, I just wanna make sure the DSL-1 is pretty much the same as the JVM-1, circut-wise....Thanks, & again keep me posted on what you find....
Click to expand...

I sold the DSL1 and kept my JVM1, I like the little extra gain and more modern metal tone of the JVM1.
I only consider this mod to the JVM1 because I seldom run the pre-amp more than 6 or 7, the rest of the available gain is kind of worthless to me. So, if this piggyback mod can be dialed in to slightly reduce the maximum gain and reduce compression, it might be a great thing.

A friend of mine is a pretty serious tube amp guru, so I plan to see what he thinks of the idea.
If I do it, I'll let you know and hear it too. :guitar:
 
minerman said:
You're talking about modding your DSL-1, right??? If so, please do keep me informed about this man, what the mods were, what they did to the tone/sound, & of course, pics & clips if you do get this rolling....As far as soldering a resistior piggy-backed like in that thread, I'm pretty sure I'd have no problem doing it, I just wanna make sure the DSL-1 is pretty much the same as the JVM-1, circut-wise....Thanks, & again keep me posted on what you find....
Click to expand...

The circuits are probably not the same, as in identical same circuit, but they will work similarly. JVMs don't sound like DSLs and vice-versa, but the same rules apply as far as cathodes, grids, tweaking caps and resistors, etc. You just need to find which one it is in the DSL.
 
Greg_L said:
The circuits are probably not the same, as in identical same circuit, but they will work similarly. JVMs don't sound like DSLs and vice-versa, but the same rules apply as far as cathodes, grids, tweaking caps and resistors, etc. You just need to find which one it is in the DSL.
Click to expand...

Gotcha man, I knew this....From what I can gather, the pre-amp circuits in the 1 watters (the DSL & JVM anyway), are pretty much identical to the big amps although I'm sure they're not identical at all....I'd thought about starting a thread in the Marshall forum's workbench section, with some pics to see if anyone there who'd modded a big DSL could help me out....Still digging around online, but there's really not much info out there that I can find...
 
Sounds like a good deal Greg....If I had the $$$, I'd probably buy a "big" DSL, as I really like the 1w version, & I'm sure the 50/100w versions are even better...Still trying to find out some info on modding my DSL-1, the guy in the Roadhouse did reply, posted a clip, but honestly, the clip isn't much, & there's no before/after comparison...He's supposed to post some pics in the next while too, that's what I've been waiting for, that way I can compare the 1w version to the "big" versions, & have help deciding what to do...

Gotta leave early today, we've got safety training tomorrow, & have to start a couple hours early so it won't be so hard getting up in the morning....I should get home around 10 tonight, but I'll have to be on the road by 5 am, so I'm not gonna get much sleep at all....

Spent a whopping $30 on some new "drummers" this morning for Jamstix...LOL...We'll see if they're closer to what I'm after, although I am making progress with my fake drums....

See you guys in about 24-28 hours....Post some toans!!!
 
Ok guys, here are some pics of my amp, I don't know if they'll be useful or not, I may have to zoom in or have other parts of the board in 'em, but here they are anyway...


Looks like I did have the tube layout wrong according to their #'s on the board, & looks like V4 is the first gain stage (closest to the input jack), but please correct me if I'm wrong....I was calling V4 (closest to the input jack), V1....





V1: (12AU7 tube/power section)



V2: (12AX7 tube 2nd stage in the pre-amp I'm assuming...)



V3: (12AU7 tube)



V4: (12AX7 tube 1st stage in the pre-amp I'm assuming...)



V5: (12AX7 tube)



In the JVM-1 thread I posted, the only mod was adding/piggy-backing a resitor to the plate resistor, & it lowered the gain, giving him a more useable sweep on the gain knob....I started a thread over at the Marshall forum, & uploaded the pics...Maybe somebody will be able to compare my amp to the "big" DSL's, & figure something out...

The guy in the Marshall Roadhouse replied, but the mods he did are probably over my head right now, so I'm just gonna see if I can swap a resistor or something simple to give the gain knob a more useable sweep (for me)....

Big transformers, ain't they??? It's unreal these amps retail for $800, there's literally nothing inside 'em at all....I didn't pay $800 for mine, got it for $600 & some change, but still...

If there's anyone here that knows anything about the big DSL's lemme know, maybe between a couple/few forums & a few different people, I can mod this thing where I'll like it even more than I do now.....

Don't get me wrong, this amp doesn't sound bad at all like it is, but I have to keep the gain knob on about "2" or so for a crunch sound, & it can sound thin if I'm going for a tad cleaner sound....turn the gain up just a hair, & it's too much...
 
Just be patient. You'll find some info eventually. Someone will know something. The big DSLs are really like a 4 channel amp - clean, crunch, and two ODs. Follow the traces on your gain pot and see where they go.
 
Greg_L said:
Just be patient. You'll find some info eventually. Someone will know something. The big DSLs are really like a 4 channel amp - clean, crunch, and two ODs. Follow the traces on your gain pot and see where they go.
Click to expand...

Yeah man, I'm in no hurry at all, I've posted the same thing in a couple different forums, nothing yet, but again, no hurry...I'm reading up on some of the mods done to the big DSL's, & some other things too...Probably just something really simple & cheap like replacing a resistor with a different value...I really don't think I'm gonna go crazy on the little amp like the guy did in the Marshall Roadhouse, first of all, I'm probably not competent enough to do all that shit, & second, I'll probably be getting another amp eventually anyway...
 
Yeah dude, but it's all greek to me, I really don't "get" any of that stuff....That's why it's probably best for someone else to suggest what I need to do, I'd probably fuck my amp up, then have to send it off for repairs....LOL...
 
Try to look at one though and compare it to what you have. For example, look at the input jack in the schematic and see where it goes. Then compare that to what yours shows you in person.

You can use this to decipher all those resistors:
4 Band Resistor Color Code Calculator and Chart ? Online Conversion Calculators | DigiKey

You might also need to pull the board to see where the traces actually go. A trace on a PCB is essentially a wire.

And every 12ax7 follows this layout:
05309.png


Regardless of what kind of amp you have, if you're using 12ax7s, that's their layout. You just need to find out which half of which tube you need to modify.
 
Thanks dude, I've figured that part out with the info in the JVM-1 thread mod, pins 1 & 6 on go to the resistors in question, if I'm correct....And I'm pretty sure that it's V4 (the tube that's closest to the input jack) that I need to mod/change resistor values, but other than that, I'm just guessing without someone that actually knows this shit, with enough experience to tell me what I need to do...

But, all this is assuming that V4 is the first gain stage like the JVM-1 too, again, I'm just guessing here, so I'm just gonna wait until I hear from someone who actually knows....
 
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