Tascam M520 Story...

ethyrvalve,

If this tangent goes anywhere, I'd LOVE to see a new thread in the DIY section. If there are easy upgrades that would be sweet. Something I could execute but know pretty much nothing about component selection or identifying which component upgrades would be beneficial etc. Too bad Somnium7 doesn't have an M520! :D:D:D

Well I can attempt a recommendation or two if I had the schematics.

As for opamps all you need to do is find the datasheet for the devices in the mixer originally and see what the current consumption is for them. Then go to the TI site and search for opamps close to that rating. Be careful of what you are looking at though. Sometimes you will see a consumption per opamp or per device. Big difference there for dual or quad devices.

I paid an awful lot of money for LME49860 opamps for my console. I also tried the TLE2142 which is made with the same process but has very high distortion specs compared to the LME. However I honestly don't hear a difference between the two parts at all and the TLE is considerably cheaper. Wish I knew that before... :rolleyes:

Anyway, if you see the original opamp is 5 MA per device then just look for a good opamp of the same rating. Then there is no need to worry about taxing the power supply.

Speaking of the power supply - do something to it. If you aren't prepared to rebuild it like I did on my console than at least recap the sucker. The mixer in question is old enough that the electrolytics really should be changed now.
Also, if you see an arrangement of four ceramic disc or mylar caps right up against a bridge rectifier change them too. Those are snubber caps and they take a real beating which causes them to degrade. If you look for noise on your power rails with an O-Scope before and after changing the snubber caps you'll see a dramatic difference in noise level. I honestly thought I had changed my Volts/Div range and forgot about it when I saw this.
 
Ethan,

It was a real offer too if you decide that you are not making the progress you want....

Yeah, I took you seriously, and seriously, if I do get to that point I'll contact you first. :)

We'll have to do a site visit sometime....

You're on! :D

Somnium7

Well I can attempt a recommendation or two if I had the schematics.

Serious? I can get you schematics...that would be neat-o.

Also, if I do find a power supply, I may need somebody to help me identify what the "bridge rectifier" is. Somnium7, most of what you posted I can pretty well understand, but I haven't gotten my hands dirty on this at all like you have, nor do I have the background knowledge...neophyte here. If it comes to that and I put something up here I hope you (and others) can chime in and help.

Thanks for posting!! I've really enjoyed your RX7 threads.
 
ooops missed the part where there is no PSU :eek:

You can build a PSU from a bunch of Power One units. I got a few from these guys for really reasonable prices:

http://stores.ebay.com/CTR-Surplus_Power-Supplies_W0QQcolZ2QQdirZQ2d1QQfsubZ6QQftidZ2QQtZkm

As for current, if you don't know what is needed just go with way more capacity than can possibly be required. The circuits will only consume what they need.
Relays and lamps are the biggest power hogs. Figure out which voltage they run on and count the total of each. Then find specs for the same or similar part to get an idea of what it eats and multiply by the total. You can do the same with the opamps. This will give you a rough idea. Then shoot for a PSU that can supply two to three times the calculated current and you should be fine.

Are there any fuses inside the mixer that might give you a clue?
 
Repost

Here is a repost from another thread....

The power supply should not be too hard....

+- 15 are fused at 4 amps each

+ 48 at 2A

+6 at 4 amp and it is shared with the 11VAC

+-18 are fused at 2A

--Ethan

The +- 15 feed the majority of the opamps inthe board with the +-18 feeding the output stages. This being a +4dBm the higher voltage is needed. The balanced out max is speced at +28 dBm (19.5V). I would guess a little more headroom and more isolation. Output does not get fed back into a gain stage through the PS rails.

the total power is speced at 70 watts.

The 11 VAC is novel in that it feeds 2 meter lamps in series.
 
Thanks, Ethan...totally forgot about that post. Guess that's one danger of closing a thread. I'm sure that info is in my manual somewhere too. :o

So the fuses are in the PSU enclosure right? That would make sense, plus I couldn' find 'em in the mixer...:D
 
+- 15 are fused at 4 amps each

+ 48 at 2A

+6 at 4 amp and it is shared with the 11VAC

+-18 are fused at 2A

--Ethan

The +- 15 feed the majority of the opamps inthe board with the +-18 feeding the output stages. This being a +4dBm the higher voltage is needed. The balanced out max is speced at +28 dBm (19.5V). I would guess a little more headroom and more isolation. Output does not get fed back into a gain stage through the PS rails.

the total power is speced at 70 watts.

The 11 VAC is novel in that it feeds 2 meter lamps in series.

This is great! Thanks!

Here's what I might do. Start buying up some used Power One units. Here's the list:
2 X Power One HDD15-5-A http://cgi.ebay.com/Power-One-HDD15-5-A-DC-Power-Supply-15-VDC-5-Amp_W0QQitemZ7602669028QQihZ019QQcategoryZ58288QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

1 X Power One HN5-702 http://cgi.ebay.com/Power-One-HN5-702-Power-Supply-6VDC-5-Amp_W0QQitemZ7602703847QQihZ019QQcategoryZ58288QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

At this really low price I would nab these also:
2 X http://cgi.ebay.com/26V-5A-DC-Filtered-Variable-HAM-CB-hobby-Power-Supply_W0QQitemZ140236627341QQihZ004QQcategoryZ58288QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

2 X http://cgi.ebay.com/12V-5A-Filtered-Variable-Power-Supply_W0QQitemZ140236627406QQihZ004QQcategoryZ58288QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

These ACDC Electronics Inc. units may not be as well regulated as the Power One supplies, can't say for sure. Still they can be improved if necessary. It's worth getting them just for the power transformers alone.

So with that shopping list you can piece together a conglomerate PSU with some creative wiring.

Wire the two 26V ACDC Electronics Inc. supplies in series and adjust each to 24V for your +48V rail.

Do the same with the ACDC Electronics Inc. 12V units but adjust each for 18V. This will provide the +/-18 V rails.

Again, wire in series the Power One HDD15-5-A for your +/-15V rails.
That leaves you with the Power One HN5-702 for the 6V and hopefully the 11VAC rails. On this unit I would put a sizable load on the 6V output (a few auto brake lightbulbs) and measure the voltage on the secondary winding of the power transformer and see how close it is to 11 volts. I really doubt this voltage is critical anyway.

You will have to be very careful with your wiring. Incorrectly wiring a bunch of power supplies can be a disaster. Make sure you put a fuse inline with each and every output and on each AC input to be safe.
Connect all the ground lines together in one connection.
With the split rail supplies...
Remember with your series connected supplies you are connecting the positive output of one to the ground of another and that junction becomes the ground for those rails.

For the 48V you will series connect the supplies but only use the positive from one and the ground for the other and isolate the interconnection between them.

Finally, load test the shit out of them all before connecting them to the mixer. Use automotive light bulbs in various combinations if you have to. Make sure everything is stable and not overheating with a real load applied. Since this is used equipment I cannot stress how important it is to load test everything completely on an individual basis.

Yes this sounds crazy but it can work great if you do it right. In the end you have a supply for under $100 with good regulation and low noise without having to design from scratch.

If you buy all those power supplies I will draw up the wiring diagram for you. I can also suggest some options for load testing them.

Then it is up to you how you mount them up. The fancy thing would be to buy a large rack chassis but that is expensive and requires a bit of drilling. The cheap and ugly solution would be to mount them all on a piece of plywood and hide it somewhere nobody will see it :D
 
here's another one in san diego:

sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/msg/697865941.html

$300 gets you the unit and the power supply.


about the M50:
ch 1&2 line inputs ch 3&4 phono inputs
 
Herm, thanks for putting up the pic. I PM'ed you.

Somnium7...oooo. That sounds intense. Thank you so much for taking so much time to identify/locate parts and for such a detailed post. I'm not sure I'm ready for this...:(:confused: I'm concerned about burdening you and others with so many questions on specifics, and I don't want to move forward with a parts order and then not have direction to complete assembly. Keep in mind I think my experience/comfort level is quite a bit different than yours...
 
Don't worry

Just remember that if you cannot find a PS and decide to build one I am just across the river. I'm comfortable building one from the schematic....

--Ethan
 
Herm, thanks for putting up the pic. I PM'ed you.

Somnium7...oooo. That sounds intense. Thank you so much for taking so much time to identify/locate parts and for such a detailed post. I'm not sure I'm ready for this...:(:confused: I'm concerned about burdening you and others with so many questions on specifics, and I don't want to move forward with a parts order and then not have direction to complete assembly. Keep in mind I think my experience/comfort level is quite a bit different than yours...

It really isn't as bad as it sounds as long as you can follow a wiring diagram. The potential for electrical shock is pretty high though so it would help if you had some more confidence with electricity.

Still, if you purchase the parts and send them to one of us who knows their shit I can't see it being more than a few hours of wiring and testing. That wouldn't be anywhere near as costly as trying to replicate the original power supply circuits.

Just a thought.
 
Anybody know if this will work?

Tascam PS3500

I'm assuming this mates with an M3500 console...it looks like the same connector but :( no umbilical.

Ethan and Somnium7, thank you both for the offers, and the encouragement. I will definitely keep that in mind. I'm likely to hold out a bit longer for a PS520, but if push comes to shove I will definitely look to build one with some help from my friends! :D

This M520 is, in my experience, a pretty unique package. I've read, in depth, the manual up through the functional description of all the features including the block diagrams and such.

I realize that some of the relatively unique features are precisely those for which the M500 consoles (and others) have drawn criticism, but I think its cool! :cool:

As I've said in the past, I have quite a bit of experience with an Allen & Heath GL3300-32, from operating to training and even modifying the innards. I have also owned a couple small mixers of no fame, and in my research over the years as a gearhead I've read the manuals to probably 40-50 different consoles. I like learning how different vintages, makes and formats of mixers go about accomplishing their tasks. My reading has covered both analog and digital consoles and I also have quite a bit of experience operating the Yamaha 01X that perches in my studio.

I have to say, again, the M520 has a number of fairly unique features for the price range especially. What it lacks in +4 balanced outputs it makes up for in routing and patching flexibility and faculties. I can see it is open for criticism with the dominant -10dBu RCA I/O, but I think some of that is the same market hype that I've fallen prey to as well...+4dBm operating level does not necessarily mean better signal quality, and in some cases worse.

The aux section, while limited in only 4 channels by today's standards on a board of this size is really, really flexible...pre/post switchable in pairs, individual send level pots (albeit concentric stacked pots)...nothing too special yet, but then the ability to draw (in pairs) signal from either the channel line or mic input OR the channel tape input with the flick of a switch...now you've got two effects sends and two cue mixes...or flick-flick-flick you've got 4 separate cue mixes, and having aux mute switches on the strip (again in pairs) is a handy feature.

I also like that the line level and mic level inputs to the strip have separate gain trims.

And of course the eq...I can understand some bellyaching about the absence of shelving eq, but, as is usually the case with this vintage of Tascam gear, they have a wonderfully logical way of explaining why they did what they did and offering some education in the process. You can do a lot of bad with shelving eq. Such a tendency to grab the high and low level shelving eq knobs and turn 'em up...in a live situation, depending on your signal path you could be really loading your amps and drivers with mud...I already liked the idea of a three-band sweep eq, but now that I know the method to the madness I like it even better. It offers more flexibility and also forces you to be smart about your eq'ing, the way its supposed to be IMO...

Each channel strip has a crazy amount of patch/access points...including the insert send and return there are a total of 7 jacks per channel on most channels, more on some. :eek:

Plus the monitor section can be used as an additional tape cue (again with the flick of some switches) leaving all 4 auxes free with no repatching, or it behaves like an 8 x 2 matrix mixer or anything in between, again, all with no repatching.

They doubled most of the output jacks...with a matching patchbay this thing would be pure madness in terms of flexibility...

And while it doesn't feature dedicated main outs on XLR's, it all depends on how you want to configure things with the balance amp section...8 unbalanced -10 RCA inputs, 8 +4 (or +8) balanced XLR outputs...patch away.

Yeah, there is no way to bypass the subgroups and route straight to the main buss, but really its all in how you want to patch and configure, and it does have individual buss assign switches. It really is a pretty smart design and I imagine it may have, in part, fallen subject to the consumer demand for a board with 1/4" jacks instead of RCA's...

But wait! There's more! Channel PFL and solo-in-place circuits, master section talkback and oscillator features add to the package...8 of the 12 VU meters can monitor external sources or anything you patch to them at the press of a switch in groups of 4...now that is cool. Again, an appropriately-sized patchbay would just make this thing a flexibility monster.

Individual phantom power, phase reverse and pad...the channel strips don't look very feature packed until you start seeing all the routing/source select switches and then realize that 6 of the 7 pots you see on each strip are stacked... ;)

Plus instrument DI inputs on channels 1 & 2...phono preamps on channels 3 & 4...two stereo returns on channels 17 ~ 20 available in the monitor section at the push of a button...the list goes on...
 
So here's a question...

My 58 (and my 48 I think) are switch selectable +4 or +8 dBm signal level on the XLR ins and outs...my M520 is also (balanced outs).

What is the advantage to running at +8? Is it just interface flexibility, or is there a potential of "lowering the noise floor" when running at +8?
 
Any comments on the +4 vs +8 thing?

Keeping busy cleaning up the console while I wait for a PS520 to bite me in the...

As I was saying, I've been cleaning up the M520, and it is cleaning up nicely.

Here is a picture of the back...I dusted the jacks up to channel 17...you can see kind of a before and after here, though it wasn't bad to start with:
M520%20Clean%20Jacks%20%231.JPG


Here is another view of channels 1 ~ 16 from the back...they cleaned up really nice:
M520%20Clean%20Jacks%20%232.JPG


Here is a view of a channel module face plate. You can see the cleaned up faceplate on the left...the uncleaned faceplate on the right:
M520%20Clean%20Faceplate%20%231.JPG


Here is another view with different lighting:
M520%20Clean%20Faceplate%20%232.JPG


So the cleaning continues...as does the search for the power supply.

Talked to the accountant that supposedly used the board after the radio station was done with it. He says he never used the board, doesn't think the power supply ever made it to him. He's doing a spring cleaning later this week and he'll call me. At least I made contact...

Somnium7...what schematic would you need to possibly give some recomendation on component replacement?
 
Last edited:
Also tracked down some spare parts which will be good because I know there are a couple bad switches and who knows about pots/faders. Cant's get the stacked pots from Tascam anymore. I found a set of 4 input channels (no faceplate or knobs, but all the rest of the stuff) for $35...yeah I only paid $50 for the mixer, but that's a lot of spare pots and switches, and 4 input channel PCB's to boot. I figured it was worth it. Its coming with a bunch of the SEND/RCV jumpers as well which is good because mine is missing 4 of them.
 
Cory, that's a beautiful mixer. The connectors on the back are nice and shiny with no hint of rust or corrosion. That's very good news.

The price you added to your initial investment is still low 'cause that baby originally cost the value of a small brand new car back in the day.

----
 
He has it....

The accountant has it...the accountant that received my M520 from the original radio station owner and then donated it has IT. The accountant that I've been bugging to look for IT has IT...the same accountant who was "999%" sure he didn't have IT...the same one who said he'd know by day before yesterday and if I didn't hear from by Friday I was to assume he didn't have it.

[Cell phone rings]

Me: Hello?

Accountant: Hello Cory? This is [accountant].

Me: Oh hi! How are you? [trying to hide my purely adolescent hopefulness...]

Accountant: Cory, are you a praying man?

Me: Well yes I am!

Accountant: Well you must have been praying hard because I'm looking at a Tascam PS520 power supply unit...Is that the one you're looking for?

I told him yes. :p

He can't find the umbilical though :confused:...Its GOT to be there...Not sure how I'm going to get the power supply yet, but we'll figure that out in the next couple days.

One step closer... :D

Has anybody ever had any success finding out if its possible to locate the connectors? Dave (A Reel Person) was engaged in a thread some time ago and had indicated that he had some info about the connectors.

It looks like they are made by HRS. I spent some time on their website tonight but couldn't find anything like the connectors on the M520 and PS520. Did some additional snooping around on the web with no luck so far.

Questions:

1. I want to test this power supply before I connect it to the mixer. What is the best way to load-test it without connecting it to the mixer?

2. Any suggestions on which route to go if I end up having to build my own cable?
 
Great!!!

Persistence paid off! WAHOOOO!!! Yes, Cory! I too am excited, very happy for you!!!
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

-------
 
Great news...

Don't sweat the cable. Perhaps it will show up as well.

As for testing. First time I would do is open it up and look and smell for the obvious. Blown fuses, burnt traces or components. Then if nothing bad was seen I would smoke test it. Turn it on then plug it in for a second or 2 listening and smelling. Still good? Then plug it in and listen/smell for a bit.

If you are paranoid now would be a good time to test its protective ground. Take a meter set for the 200/250 AC volt range and touch one end to the PS case metal and the other to a safety ground (the screw on an outlet). There should be no voltage. (You could plug it into a GFI outlet in the bathroom or kitchen to do the same thing) I am assuming that this is a 3 wire plug but I cold be wrong here.

Next is to test each voltage no-load. Just use your meter DC on a reasonable scale to see if each voltage is within spec. If you had a scope you could look for ripple. Your meter on AC may show if there is any AC component.

Lastly you could test the voltage under load. You can use a light bulb for that (an old trick). A 15 watt bulb has about 8 ohm resistance so that works out to about 2.25 amps load at 18 volts. Don't expect the bulb to light. It is just a test load....
 
My friend,...

That's great news about the PS-520! The cable is a sticky issue, though. Hopefully he finds that and it's a done deal.

However, I've located the info about the connector and hood, which I have stashed in print copy in my bins full of stuff, or maybe better located with my tech manuals and info. What I gathered is that the connector and hood are sold separately, but I've not ventured to inquire if the connector/hood can be purchased separately in singles or if there's a minimum bulk order required. I'd be glad to dig up this info later, and maybe we could knock heads on what to do about it.

I'd gotten an M-520 originally with the board and ps but no umbilical cable, so it's been a daunting issue to me since way back when. I'm not much of a DIY'er any more, so I've not pursued the cable issue myself. Give me some time and maybe I could provide more info, or we could help each other on this issue. It's a 20 pin latching connector, the likes of which were sorta common in the 80's, but not much since then. Also, the gauge of the multi core wire was an issue that I'd not found any info on, though I have two more M-520's on hand that are complete, and this cable may be reverse engineered from them, given the time and effort required.

My 2¢:eek:;)

PS: The original M-520 I'd gotten less cable was substantially less or in worse condition (non functional without cable & missing 21 jumper plugs), and so thru filing a Visa card dispute, I got my entire purchase price refunded. Net result, my first M-520/PS-520 was FREE, less cable, so any investment in a cable would be from 0$ upward. Not a bad deal, but for lack of time and effort I'd never pursued the issue, (since a few years ago). Note: I got a 130 lb doorstop!:eek:;)

More info as yet TBD.
 
Back
Top