Tascam 424 mk ii came yesterday. Got a problem, perhaps?

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dashofchutmeg

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So I'm giving it a test run, and I notice that during playback, my acoustic guitar track begins to tail off in volume about halfway through the take. Is this a normal problem? Could it be a DBX problem? Or maybe the tape itself?
 
...

It's hard to say.
Most often that would be the tape.
It would bear out in further testing.
What kind of tape are you using?
Name brand tapes would generally be better.
Generic or bulk tape would be more suspect.
:spank::eek:;)
 
Maxell XLII 60 min. I'll try another tape and see what happens.
 
Still having a problem. I recorded a drum track fairly hot, and then when I try to overdub other instruments, the playback on the other tracks is EXTREMELY low, and you can hear little blips from the drum track on the overdubbed tracks. Whether I futz with tape cue or tape+faders, the other tracks are still barely audible, and the tape hiss is louder than the signal. Do you think this could be from dirty tape heads?
 
Well, it's hard to say, sight unseen.

I think drum tracks should not be recorded too hot, or it will mess with the dbx NR, also possibly producing crosstalk onto other tracks. You might have that issue, based on what you describe.

The other tracks should play back roughly the same level as they were recorded. A few dB drop would be common, and might be due to head cleaning issues or the electronics slightly out of adjustment. There could be other more serious electronic issues there, but I'd not jump to any conlusions. Of course the heads should be spotlessly clean before going in deep. The cassette should drop firmly into the cassette compartment, and the heads should raise to contact the tape firmly.

A lot varies on your exact process and setup. It could be a matter of incorrect settings. Without seeing in person I could not be sure. Do you have the manual? What area do you live in? Is there anyone you know who's familiar with this machine who could help you?
 
...

only if want to kill tape hiss vs. living with it.

Dbx NR will supress a lot of the tape hiss and boost overall dynamic range.

Dbx "Off" was put there to help with compatibility in playing back commercial and non-dbx encoded tapes.

Generally, I think you'd want dbx NR "On", although some people don't like the "sound" of it.

Dbx NR was designed to be as transparent as possible, while doing the job it's intended to do.

Going outside dbx's limits with levels and some transients can produce an unwanted "pumping" sound.

Some people say dbx changes the overall sonic qualities of the signal in an undesirable way.

I've never had a problem with it, YMMV.

:spank::eek:;)
 
So I'm giving it a test run, and I notice that during playback, my acoustic guitar track begins to tail off in volume about halfway through the take. Is this a normal problem? Could it be a DBX problem? Or maybe the tape itself?



Since you just received that machine, my guess would be that the pots may need cleaning. Hear any pops, crackles, or dropouts; while turning them?
 
Since you just received that machine, my guess would be that the pots may need cleaning. Hear any pops, crackles, or dropouts; while turning them?

Nothing noticeable. Would unclean pots lead to an EXTREME loss of volume during playback? Also, I cleaned the heads last night (91% alcohol) and although a lot of dark grime came off (and then were verifiably clean), I had the same problem upon trying to record again. This is getting frustrating!

Again, my drum track is large and full and has no variance in output. It plays back exceptionally well, both with the track set to "Tape" and from the Tape Cue. When I try to record to other tracks, whether through Direct or the L/R Bus, I get almost no playback volume despite hearing the track perfectly during monitoring and seeing levels like normal on the meters. This is ONLY a playback problem, so I feel that for some reason, it's simply not printing to tape. Could this be a degaussing problem?

(And I don't mind tape hiss. I'd rather not have DBX tellin' me what should be compressed and what shouldn't be, or whatever.)
 
dbx is broadband compression/expansion & is NR made to be as transparent as possible

Quite different than program-level compression!

Ok, take your 4-track tape and pop it into your car, boombox or console standard stereo cassette, and verify what's actually recorded onto the tracks, or not. You will have to flip the tape to verify all 4 tracks.
:spank::eek:;)
 
Quite different than program-level compression!

Ok, take your 4-track tape and pop it into your car, boombox or console standard stereo cassette, and verify what's actually recorded onto the tracks, or not. You will have to flip the tape to verify all 4 tracks.
:spank::eek:;)

I'll try that tonight. Also, maybe I didn't mention this, but when I play the track back, I see nothing on the meters for the guitar tracks (only the drum track and the overall meter). So maybe it's not just a playback problem, but a printing problem.

Thanks so much for your troubleshooting help!
 
Checked it in a tape player. Only the drum track plays. If the guitars are there, they're basically inaudible.
 
That tells you a lot, not everything.

DO you have the manual?

Ok, drums vs guitar or non drums:...
- There is nothing technically different between recording a drum sound and any other sound.
- What TRACKS seem to record properly, vs those that do not?
- What CHANNELS are you using to route your signals to tape?
.............. Any channel should be able to route any signal to any track, in BUSS mode.
.............. Forget drums vs non drums. Think in term of test tones.
.............. Identify which channels will pass signal to which tracks.
.............. Identify which tracks record (and play back) properly and which ones do not.
.............. Identify whether you are using XLR vs 1/4" inputs, or both.

Recording vs playback.
- You have done a fair amount of experimentation, I'm sure. It just needs to be described better, widened and refined simultaneously.

.............. FIRST TRY THIS:
............................. Take your existing test tape with all your test efforts and play it back.
............................. When your test takes are verified and at the end, stop and turn the tape over.
............................. Play the tape again. You should see your original test tracks play backward using the opposite tracks than before.
............................. Verify signal flow thru the CUE section and the main mixer (TAPE/L-R BUSS) section.

.............. THEN TRY THIS:
............................ Take ANY commercial cassette tape, Metallica, Motley Crue, Michael Jackson, Kraftwerk, Kenny G, (haha, u get it)... and play it back in your 424mkII.
............................ All 4 VU meters should show activity, and all tracks should output sound thu the CUE section and the "TAPE" playback section using the full mixer strip.
............................ Side "B" will of course be playing backward.

.............. NOW TRY THIS:
............................. Set each track REC FUNCT to Buss L/R, respectively, arming all 4 tracks to record.
............................. Set all PAN knobs to dead center.
............................. Set all TRIM knobs to fully CCW (minimum).
............................. Set all INPUT select switches to "MIC/LINE"
............................. Plug ONE mic or known good sound source, test signal into Input 1.
............................. Set (main) EFF2/CUE switch to "CUE".
............................. Set Eff2/Cue switch on each channel to "CUE".
............................. Set MONITOR section (L/R/Eff1/Eff2) all to MON (right).
............................. Turn Eff1 and Eff2/Cue knobs all fully CCW (minimum/off)
............................. Set MASTER fader to between 7-8, the grey shaded zone.
............................. Set each channel Fader to between 7-8, the grey shaded zone.
............................. In channel 1, use your test signal to get a 0VU response on ALL 4 TRACK VU meters SIMULTANEOUSLY, by turning the TRIM control.
............................. Set all 4 TRIM knobs to the same position as on Channel 1.
............................. Press REC/PLAY simultaneously, starting the recording process.
............................. When plugged into Channel 1, say "Test 1, Test 1, Test 1... "
...................................... *(assuming it's a mic, if not then just proceed with your chosen test signal)*
............................. Unplug from Input 1 and plug into Input 2, say "Test 2, Test 2", etc...
............................. Unplug from Input 2 and plug into Input 3, say "Test 3, Test 3", etc...
............................. Unplug from Input 3 and plug into Input 4, say "Test 4, Test 4", etc...
............................. Each time you do this, you should see all 4 VU meters activate simultaneously, and record function should be verified on each track as a solid red light.
............................. Press STOP, REWIND, Press PLAY.
............................. Set ALL 4 REC FUNCT switches to SAFE.
............................. Set all INPUTS to OFF.
............................. You should see playback levels coming from tape, 4 tracks playing back the same signal simultaneously on VU meters.
............................. Rotate each EFF2/CUE knob CW individually.
............................. You should hear each track play back thru the CUE section.
............................. You should also see signal register on the L/R meters.
............................. Press STOP. REWIND.
............................. Rotate each EFF2/CUE knob back to CCW, (off).
............................. Set all 4 INPUT Select switches to TAPE.
............................. Bring all 4 Track faders down to zero.
............................. Press Play.
............................. Raise each track fader individually.
............................. You should hear each track play back thru the MAIN section.
............................. You should also see signal register on the L/R meters.
............................. IF YOU HAVE DONE THIS USING XLR INPUTS, GO BACK TO THE TOP AND DO THE SAME THING AGAIN USING THE 1/4" INPUTS, (or vice versa).
............................. ONCE YOU HAVE DONE THAT, GO BACK TO THE TOP AND SET EACH TRACK TO "DIRECT" MODE RECORDING AND TEST AGAIN.
....................................... In this case you shoud see your "Test 1/2/3/4" signals come up individually on their corresponding tracks.

*** CLEARLY DESCRIBE WHICH CHANNELS PASSED SIGNALS TO WHICH TRACKS, AND WHICH TRACKS SEEMINGLY RECORDED AND VERIFIED PLAYBACK AFTER TESTING.***

*** IF ANY OF THIS PROCESS DOES NOT GET DESIRED RESULTS, DESCRIBE EXACTLY WHAT YOU GOT vs WHAT YOU EXPECTED.***


Direct vs Buss.
............... Should not make a difference if a track records or not, unless the REC FUNCTION switch itself is defective.

None of this assumes you are a dummy, in fact I respect your tenacity, but there has to be a definition, simplification, and better flow to your methodology. There may well be something wrong with your Tascam, but it bears out further testing, as I've described. I've worked through this process flow in my head, only looking at the top panel of the Mk2 once to verify cue switches. I'm familiar enough with this unit to do the rest by memory. I've tried to be clear, thorough and show emphasis where needed. I have proofed and revised this message many times. There may be something I forgot to consider or mention. If that's the case, or if you have more questions, just speak up.

I hope this helps and I look forward to your response.
:spank::eek:;)
 
Last edited:
Just a quick one,...

If you cleaned the head and you got lots of black gunk off them, but they're "visibly & identifiably clean", it really points to a primary issue, regardless of what I detailed above. This cleaning process should be repeated until no gunk can be removed from the heads, then it should be repeated a couple times just for thoroughness.

The head should be verified as absolutely, spotlessly clean before going in deep or considering anything I typed above.

One thing about troubleshooting is you cover, verify and attend to the simplest stuff first, then methodically work up in complexity while not skipping any steps or making any assumptions that are not substantially verified.
:spank::eek:;)
 
DO you have the manual?

Ok, drums vs guitar or non drums:...
- There is nothing technically different between recording a drum sound and any other sound.
- What TRACKS seem to record properly, vs those that do not?
- What CHANNELS are you using to route your signals to tape?
.............. Any channel should be able to route any signal to any track, in BUSS mode.
.............. Forget drums vs non drums. Think in term of test tones.
.............. Identify which channels will pass signal to which tracks.
.............. Identify which tracks record (and play back) properly and which ones do not.
.............. Identify whether you are using XLR vs 1/4" inputs, or both.

Recording vs playback.
- You have done a fair amount of experimentation, I'm sure. It just needs to be described better, widened and refined simultaneously.

.............. FIRST TRY THIS:
............................. Take your existing test tape with all your test efforts and play it back.
............................. When your test takes are verified and at the end, stop and turn the tape over.
............................. Play the tape again. You should see your original test tracks play backward using the opposite tracks than before.
............................. Verify signal flow thru the CUE section and the main mixer (TAPE/L-R BUSS) section.

.............. THEN TRY THIS:
............................ Take ANY commercial cassette tape, Metallica, Motley Crue, Michael Jackson, Kraftwerk, Kenny G, (haha, u get it)... and play it back in your 424mkII.
............................ All 4 VU meters should show activity, and all tracks should output sound thu the CUE section and the "TAPE" playback section using the full mixer strip.
............................ Side "B" will of course be playing backward.

.............. NOW TRY THIS:
............................. Set each track REC FUNCT to Buss L/R, respectively, arming all 4 tracks to record.
............................. Set all PAN knobs to dead center.
............................. Set all TRIM knobs to fully CCW (minimum).
............................. Set all INPUT select switches to "MIC/LINE"
............................. Plug ONE mic or known good sound source, test signal into Input 1.
............................. Set (main) EFF2/CUE switch to "CUE".
............................. Set Eff2/Cue switch on each channel to "CUE".
............................. Set MONITOR section (L/R/Eff1/Eff2) all to MON (right).
............................. Turn Eff1 and Eff2/Cue knobs all fully CCW (minimum/off)
............................. Set MASTER fader to between 7-8, the grey shaded zone.
............................. Set each channel Fader to between 7-8, the grey shaded zone.
............................. In channel 1, use your test signal to get a 0VU response on ALL 4 TRACK VU meters SIMULTANEOUSLY, by turning the TRIM control.
............................. Set all 4 TRIM knobs to the same position as on Channel 1.
............................. Press REC/PLAY simultaneously, starting the recording process.
............................. When plugged into Channel 1, say "Test 1, Test 1, Test 1... "
...................................... *(assuming it's a mic, if not then just proceed with your chosen test signal)*
............................. Unplug from Input 1 and plug into Input 2, say "Test 2, Test 2", etc...
............................. Unplug from Input 2 and plug into Input 3, say "Test 3, Test 3", etc...
............................. Unplug from Input 3 and plug into Input 4, say "Test 4, Test 4", etc...
............................. Each time you do this, you should see all 4 VU meters activate simultaneously, and record function should be verified on each track as a solid red light.
............................. Press STOP, REWIND, Press PLAY.
............................. Set ALL 4 REC FUNCT switches to SAFE.
............................. Set all INPUTS to OFF.
............................. You should see playback levels coming from tape, 4 tracks playing back the same signal simultaneously on VU meters.
............................. Rotate each EFF2/CUE knob CW individually.
............................. You should hear each track play back thru the CUE section.
............................. You should also see signal register on the L/R meters.
............................. Press STOP. REWIND.
............................. Rotate each EFF2/CUE knob back to CCW, (off).
............................. Set all 4 INPUT Select switches to TAPE.
............................. Bring all 4 Track faders down to zero.
............................. Press Play.
............................. Raise each track fader individually.
............................. You should hear each track play back thru the MAIN section.
............................. You should also see signal register on the L/R meters.
............................. IF YOU HAVE DONE THIS USING XLR INPUTS, GO BACK TO THE TOP AND DO THE SAME THING AGAIN USING THE 1/4" INPUTS, (or vice versa).
............................. ONCE YOU HAVE DONE THAT, GO BACK TO THE TOP AND SET EACH TRACK TO "DIRECT" MODE RECORDING AND TEST AGAIN.
....................................... In this case you shoud see your "Test 1/2/3/4" signals come up individually on their corresponding tracks.

*** CLEARLY DESCRIBE WHICH CHANNELS PASSED SIGNALS TO WHICH TRACKS, AND WHICH TRACKS SEEMINGLY RECORDED AND VERIFIED PLAYBACK AFTER TESTING.***

*** IF ANY OF THIS PROCESS DOES NOT GET DESIRED RESULTS, DESCRIBE EXACTLY WHAT YOU GOT vs WHAT YOU EXPECTED.***


Direct vs Buss.
............... Should not make a difference if a track records or not, unless the REC FUNCTION switch itself is defective.

None of this assumes you are a dummy, in fact I respect your tenacity, but there has to be a definition, simplification, and better flow to your methodology. There may well be something wrong with your Tascam, but it bears out further testing, as I've described. I've worked through this process flow in my head, only looking at the top panel of the Mk2 once to verify cue switches. I'm familiar enough with this unit to do the rest by memory. I've tried to be clear, thorough and show emphasis where needed. I have proofed and revised this message many times. There may be something I forgot to consider or mention. If that's the case, or if you have more questions, just speak up.

I hope this helps and I look forward to your response.
:spank::eek:;)



This right here, is another reason we love Dave's posts; the man leaves no stone unturned!! Great job, man!!:guitar::guitar:

I would never have the patience to type all that out.:cool:;):D
 
Aw, shucks! I don't do it for fanfare. I do it to help others.

But... to say [para] "my drums record but my guitars do not and I've tried everything" really is not specific enough in troubleshooting terms, nor does it reflect sound methodology.

Ok guys, don't bust my balls, I was paraphrasing. Our OP has provided details, but there's nothing meaty enough to be specifically helpful over an inet forum. I was trying to help guide with painstaking specifics, where do this do that what did you get, type-thing I can then make a sound judgment, from afar.

Typing comes second nature to me. Thank my 8th grade typing class for that!
:spank::eek:;)
 
I tested it it as you've said, and everything works perfectly. I'm going to try this again with the (other) cassette, the one with my drum take on it, and see if I get the same result. You are a godsend!
 
No idea what I was doing, but that troubleshooting fixed everything. You're a genius! I think some of the pots are dirty. Going to have my electronics guy do some maintenance for me.

reckharpering.bandcamp.com

Here's the fruit of your labor: my first 4-track recording! Thank you!
 
You're welcome!
:spank::eek:;)

I spoke too soon! Last night, I recorded a track and the audio diminished in volume over the course of the tracking. Could this be from dirty pots? I get a little crackle when I turn some of the EQ and trim knobs.
 
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