Syncing two Fostex machines

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WarmJetGuitar

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I was wondering what is the basics if I'm gonna syncronise our Fostex G16 and Model 80.
The G16 has a built in sync unit. It'll make a total track number of 22, right?
As far as I've got it the sync code will be on track 16.

We're recording a lot these days and I'm trying to fix this before we actually run out of tracks :wtf:

Can I use a midi cable? A midi cable is the thing that looks like a DIN, right?
When we overdub on the slave machine (Model 80) would a sketch mixdown from the original tape do the trick or will the machines have to play at the same time?

Any guidiance would be strongly appreciated.
 
WarmJetGuitar said:
I was wondering what is the basics if I'm gonna syncronise our Fostex G16 and Model 80.
The G16 has a built in sync unit. It'll make a total track number of 22, right?
As far as I've got it the sync code will be on track 16.
Click to expand...
So far, so good. Though on the A8 I found that using track 7 was impossible because the timecode would either bleed into it, or track 7 would swamp the timecode and cause it to lose sync, or both. So you may end up losing two tracks on each machine owing to crosstalk.

Can I use a midi cable? A midi cable is the thing that looks like a DIN, right?
When we overdub on the slave machine (Model 80) would a sketch mixdown from the original tape do the trick or will the machines have to play at the same time?

Any guidiance would be strongly appreciated.
Click to expand...

The MIDI cable alone won't work. MIDI sync will only work for controlling (or being controlled by) a sequencer. I'm not sure it has enough precision to synchronize tape decks. In any case, I don't believe the Model 80 is capable of being driven as a slave. However, it can act as master.

Looking at the back of the G16, you should have an LTC input, right? With the timecode striped on track 8 of the Model 80, you should be able to make the G16 slave to it by connecting track 8 from the '80 to the 'LTC in' input on the back of the G16. I imagine you probably have to do some kind of setup to enable it.

As for the guide track, you can do it that way, though it will cost you a track, obviously. That's how I usually do it, anyway.
 
Stripe the 80 with time code from the G16's synchronizer, and also to track 16 of the G16.
Then feed the SMPTE output from the 80 to the G16, and put the G16 in Slave/Chase mode and let the 80 be the master.

You may have to leave guard tracks, but I've recorded less significant stuff on the 15th track of the G16 in the past, and it wasn't an issue...just don't pin the meters when you record the SMPTE code, and don't record real hot HF stuff on the 15th or 7th tracks of the G16 and 80, respectively.
If it beeds...then leave the guard track.

Always start/stop REC/PLAY from the 80, and the G16 will follow...just give yourself enough lead-in time to arm tracks, etc.

Do you have the G16 manuals...including the 8330 synchronizer card manual?
 
Wow, this seems very tricky indeed.

But why can I only use the Model 80 as the master? And does that mean that the basic tracks have to be done using that?
Cause at the moment we're feeding nine inputs at the time while cutting the basic tracks.

Probably we should just stick with the G16 and do pinging if nessecary.
 
WarmJetGuitar said:
Wow, this seems very tricky indeed.
But why can I only use the Model 80 as the master? And does that mean that the basic tracks have to be done using that?
Cause at the moment we're feeding nine inputs at the time while cutting the basic tracks.

Probably we should just stick with the G16 and do pinging if nessecary.
Click to expand...

Apologies, the Model 80 can actually be driven as a slave, unlike its immediate predecessor. However you will need a 4030 Synchronizer or compatible unit to make it work.

The reason is that the Model 80 does not have the electronics necessary to synchronize the capstan against an incoming timecode, which is what synchronization is, basically. The G16 often shipped with a built-in sync card, which allows for both MIDI input for driving a sequencer and the more difficult task of slaving itself against a timecode. Since you have this, slaving the G16 to another deck will work out of the box, but not the other way around.

The 4030 and similar units provide this capability to other decks like the 20 or B16 by driving the capstan themselves through a pin on the accessory port.
 
The G16 has the synchronizer card, the 80 doesn't...so only the G16 has the ability to "chase/lock" to incoming time code, which is why the 80 should be the master since all it needs to do is output SMPTE off of one track (unless you get additional equipment to make the 80 slave, like jpmorris mentioned), .

No, you don't really need to do the basic tracks with th 80....you can still start off on the G16 and/or use it for your basic tracks.

See....all you are doing (either at the start or later) is putting time code on one track of the 80 and one track of the G16....then, you are telling the G16 to use the SMPTE off the 80 as the source against which to sync its SMPTE against.
So the two clocks line up because the G16 will chase/lock to the same SMPTE time point as is on the 80.

What you do want to do is stripe the codes and get the two machines locked BEFORE you record any tracks on the "other" machine (which ever that ends up being).
Ideally you would stripe code for each tape/machine at the very start, before you do any recording on the tapes.
That way, both tapes will have SMPTE that starts and ends from tip to tail.
I would spool up both machines, get the SMPTE generator ready on the G16, have your SMPTE output cable going to the 80....then arm the end tracks of each machine, put them both in REC, and THEN start the SMPTE generator....that way, the SMPTE is simultaneously going to both decks from the G16.
It's not critical that you do them both simultaneoulsy....but it's just a neater and more organized way to work rather than doing it later, after you've already started recording.

I'll ask again.....do you have the manual for the G16's 8330 synchronizer card?
There's a LOT of info in that manual, so don't get too freaked out, but they also give you a very basic example of how to lock up two machines and what settings to use...etc.
Yes, there a little more to it than just pressing PLAY and REC, since you have to get into the 2nd Function mode of the G16 to get it all set up, and it will take a couple of tries before you're comfortable....but it's not brain surgery.

If you go forward and still have question, I can try and answer them for you....I've worked with a G16 for over 20 years now, and have used its sync options many times....but at least read the manual and try to figure it out, it will be better than me just telling you what to do. Once you understand what going on, you'll realize it's not that complicated.
 
You certainly are!

It really cleared things up for me. I'll just download the manual for the syncroniser - combined with your explanation I think I'm good to go. Thanks again!
 
Sorry to bring this thread back alive but I was only wondering what is the correct name for the cable that should go between the recorders? I don't have it and will be browsing Ebay for it.
 
Depends how you are going to do it, as we discussed above.
If the 80 is the master....all you need is to feed code to the G-16....that's just a basic audio cable.

If you are meaning to control both transports from one machine, not sure you can just do that with only the decks....as mentioned about, for the 80, you may need to add the 4030 sync boxes, and those transport cables don't come up often on eBay.
About 10 years back, I purchased a set of cables here in the USA from a seller on eBay, for a guy in Scotland, and then shipped them to him because he couldn't get them directly since the seller wound't ship internationally.

I can't recall the exact cable numbers they were....would have to check, or maybe someone else here knows the cable numbers that you need for the 80 and those 4030 series sync boxes.

Here...these guys are talking about the kind of cables you need: 8540, 8440, 8441

Fostex 8540 30 pin cable impossible to find? - Tapeheads Forums

This is what they look like:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FOSTEX-4030...e&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557#ht_1192wt_1022
 
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