Tascam TSR-8 > Tascam 58 > DAW sync

[bleachboy]

Hello everybody !

I'd love a little bit of help regarding a little fantasy that I'm chasing (no pun intended...), and I'd love for somebody to say "forget it it'll never work" quickly so I can get on with my life !

I already know how to sync either of these Tascam tape machines to my DAW, via two free software (Timecode Clock to generate SMPTE and LockStep to convert SMPTE to MTC). But I'd like to know if it would be feasible to sync both machines together using that same method ? For example, using Timecode Clock to stripe SMPTE to track 8 of the TSR-8, connect the output of track 8 on the TSR-8 to input 8 on the 58, record the SMPTE that was already striped on the TSR-8 track 8 to the Tascam 58 track 8, then going from output 8 on the 58 back to the DAW via LockStep ? Or is this idea completely absurd and I should get a used MicroLynx for 1500$, if I can even find one ?

EDIT : I've read my post again and it does seem absurd indeed ? If I do that, Lockstep will only follow the SMPTE code printed on the second tape machine, regardless of the first... Maybe the other way around ? First striping track 8 on the Tascam 58, then going from OUT 8 to IN 8 on the TSR-8 (according to the manual "Track 8 is specifically designed to be used with the recordable synchronizing codes used by MIDI as well as the SMPTE time code") and then from OUT 8 on the TSR-8 back to the DAW via LockStep ?

As far as I understand, the two pieces of software I'm using are basically replacing SMPTE to MTC sync boxes like the MIDIman Syncman, is that right ? I have a Syncman III for sale nearby, not sure if if would be of any help to buy it ?

Sorry for the rambling, I'm trying to wrap my head around the whole concept. Since my computer can send SMPTE time code, what prevents me from duplicating that exact SMPTE time code via a Y cable so that it is printed on both tape machines at the same time

It all seems like it could maybe work somehow, but it's very likely that I'm missing a very important piece of the puzzle.

Anyways, thanks a lot for taking the time to read my post !

Cheers

 

[sweetbeats]

The piece you’re missing is one of the tape machines has to be a slave. In a sync array you have one master, and everything else is a slave. Up until now you’ve had one tape machine as a master, and the computer as the slave. If you add a tape machine to the array it has to be a slave. Now here’s where it gets complicated…if one of the tape machines is a slave, as it drifts out of sync, what do you have that will control the transport to pull it back into sync? Every tape machine that is a slave in a sync array must have something monitoring the master and the slave and controlling The slave transport to keep it locked. The tape machine doesn’t do this by itself. That’s what a synchronizer like the Micro Lynx does. You’re missing the synchronizer.

 

[bleachboy]

Thanks Cory ! You've nailed it as usual, that's pretty much what I expected, but I guess I was trying my best to find a solution for this. There's a reason those synchronizers sell for a lot of money these days...I guess I'll console myself with just one tape machine in sync !
Just another question, I'm planning on doing the first recordings (drums for example) on the 58, then mix them down to two tracks that I'd like to send to tracks 1&2 on the TSR-8, and continue the recording of other instruments on the TSR-8. If I stripe both machines' with the same SMPTE on track 8, I suppose they'll both be in sync with my DAW, just not the two tape machines together. Therefore I could theoretically go back and forth between the two tape machines as I go along the recording process, while maintaining both of them and the DAW locked ?

 

[sweetbeats]

No. Remember: there is only one master in a sync array. So in your case, since you have no hardware that can control the tape machine to keep it locked, your master has to be one of your tape machines. But that automatically puts your other tape machine as a slave. And then we’re right back to needing hardware that controls the tape machine to keep it locked as a slave. The existence of simultaneously tracked time code on a track of each tape machine does not keep them locked, nor does it ensure they will stay in sync. All that does is save you time when striping time code. Look at the back of your 58 at the 38-pin ELCO ACCESSORY 1 connector. Now look in your manual at the pinout for that connector…all that stuff…that’s all the stuff the synchronizer you don’t have manages…reads the tach pulse…controls the capstan…engages different transport functions like FFWD and REW…provides lifter control…lots going on. And that’s the case for any tape machine that is a slave in a sync array. Maybe you’ve seen them, but I have a couple videos on YouTube from about 15 years ago that demonstrate the complexity of what occurs with a tape machine in slave mode…this one is focused on locking to a moving target:



This goes into more detail regarding the system, functionality of the Micro Lynx, and the details that drive my opinion that when the sync array involves a digital device such as a computer-based DAW, slaving the tape machine is the preferred method:

 

[bleachboy]

Of course, this makes total sense. Thanks again for taking the time to clarify this whole business for me. I have seen your videos but it's definitely time for a refresh. I just might continue working with only 1 tape machine in sync with the DAW and ping pong tracks back and forth, dumping mixdowns between the two machines as I go along. I would love to get my hands on a MicroLynx but it seems almost impossible to find one complete with all the cabling.