…I have the remote for both machines…
Which remote do you have for the 58?
1: I don't have any of the required accessory cables to go to and from both tape machines and the ES50 sync box.
That…sucks.
The 58 has a big bulky ACCESSORY plug, the TSR-8 has a smaller ACCESSORY 1 plug and an even smaller ACCESSORY 2 (serial) plug. I'm not quite sure which of these two ACCESSORY plugs I should be using, if there's any benefits of using one over the other. On the TSR-8 manual, it says however that the ACC 1 is the proper way to connect to the ES50, while the ACC 2 should be used to connect to the MIDIIZER so I guess that's a good starting point.
Yes. You just answered your own question. The ES-50 utilizes parallel signal protocol, and the ACCESSORY 1 connector on the TSR-8 supports parallel protocol. The ACCESSORY 2 connector is serial protocol and will not work with the ES-50.
The main thing is that I'd like to know exactly what type of cable I should be using (15-PIN VGA?) and what connectors I should be buying in order to build the cables myself (I do not expect it to be easy).
I can only speak to the cables that go between the ES-50 and the 58 (slave or master). I don’t have any tech docs or information on the cables that go between the ES-50 and TSR-8. You might be able to get a schematic for the cable from Tascam by calling them. There’s a fair amount of helpful information in another thread from awhile ago:
https://homerecording.com/bbs/threads/tascam-es-50-es-51.288015/page-3#post-4645629
Like I said in that thread, it’s possible the TSR-8 cables are the same, but with the different connectors on the machine end, and since the pinout is in the TSR-8 manual you
might be able to cross reference, but I don’t know if there are any other specific differences. The 58 cables, for instance have additional components in them (a diode in the master cable and two diodes and a resistor in the slave cable), so there could be components like that in the TSR-8 cables. Im attaching the schematics for the 58 cables to this post.
As far as the cable type it depends on which cable you are talking about. For the 58 the master cable needs at least 14 conductors and the slave cable 19. The cable is supposed to be shielded. Again, likely the same thing with the TSR-8 cables, but you’d need to cross reference the TSR-8 ACCESSORY 1 connector pinout and hope there’s nothing else to add.
As far as connectors go the 58 ACCESSORY connector is a 38-pin EDAC/ELCO connector. These are not hard to find, the pin housing and hood and the pins. Search on eBay is my recommendation because if you buy the parts new they can be really expensive. The other thing to be aware of is the pins insert into the connector housing. You crimp or solder the pins to the wires and then insert them into the housing. If you mess up and need to move a pin, you need a special extraction tool. Which…is really expensive. And if you get crimping type pins, the crimping tool is specific to the EDAC pins and it is…that’s right, really expensive. In some cases it becomes cheaper to have somebody make the cable for you. It’s worth at least getting an idea from someplace like Redco what the cost would be. They may have even made cables like these before and may have records of the construction, pinning, etc. Anyway, the TSR-8 ACCESSORY 2 connector is a very standard DSUB-37 connector. It’s easy to find these and they are comparatively not expensive…Mouser, Digikey, etc have the connectors and hoods. The master and slave connectors on the ES-50 are a little harder to find, but they are called cinch connectors…50-pin for the slave and 24-pin for the master. These are the same type of connectors one used to find on old printers in the parallel port days…the connector on the printer. And it happens to be 50-pin, which is how I actually made the slave cable I used to have with the 58 and ES-50/51 setup I used to have. So I found a surplus old printer cable and, after verifying it was shielded, lopped the DSUB connector off and installed the ELCO-38 connector in its place according to the schematic. You likely can find these (both the 50-pin and 24-pin type) at Mouser or Digikey.
…and what about AUX CMD and SERIAL I/F? It's all very confusing).
Neither apply to your circumstance.
2: Between the 58 and the TSR-8, what would be the preferred SLAVE/MASTER? I'd much rather use the 58 as the main machine since it has a separate PB head and more importantly it seems to be more stable with less speed fluctuations than the TSR-8. On the other hand, the TSR-8 being a more "modern" machine it is possible that it would be beneficial in some way or another? I'm completely in the dark here.
What you want to prioritize is which machine has the most stable and responsive transport. It has nothing to do with which machine has 2 or 3 heads, etc. how can you tell the TSR-8 is less stable? If you’ve measured that and know that to be true, then that would not be the choice to set as the master machine. I’m not sure which one I’d choose…the 58 is direct drive and generally that’s considered a more stable setup, but you’d have to measure for stability. The other thing to consider is which transport is more responsive and nimble at handling tape…and that’s the one I’d consider as the slave because it’s going to have to do the scrubbing and hunting to sync up and lock when you FFWD or REW. I used to have a BR-20T, which is of the late generation machines like your TSR-8. I don’t know if the servo system between those two machines is the same or similar, but it was quick and gentle with seeking, scrubbing and locking up. So in your case maybe the 58 with its direct drive capstan makes for a good master and the TSR-8 with its later generation servo tension system may make for the better slave. That’s probably where I lean if I was in your shoes. The 58 handles tape nicely too, but I’m not sure the omega tape path is as sure-footed with the demands of scrubbing. I’m just speaking from my experience using the BR-20T (same transport design as the TSR-8) and the 58.
3: DAW as MASTER / Tape as SLAVE, or the other way around? Is it even possible to have both options available? I'm aware that if I manage to sync both tape machines together on their own, there's no reason why I shouldn't be able to have Pro Tools read the Time Code from the SMPTE track on whichever machine just like what I've been doing successfully with my 58.
There is a debate that will never end about what’s better: A. DAW as master or B. It doesn’t matter. I am staunchly in the A category. Both are fine, but there is variation in how the DAW manages to stay locked if it’s the slave, like how it deals with the minor speed fluctuations of the master tape machine. In some cases it drops samples or adds samples to your digital audio…that’s how it speeds up and slows down…or in the case of at least older versions of Cubase the manual calls this out (in other words Steinberg didn’t support altering the digital audio), and basically says if you sync to external timecode and the source is a transport with variance in speed like an analog tape machine, it uses the timecode for location purposes only. Once you start playing from a synchronized point the DAW “freewheels” from there onward and actually isn’t locked to tape. No way you say, but it’s right there in the manual for Cubase 4…which is legacy software, but regardless that’s the stand Steinberg took to maintain the integrity of the digital audio. And I agree. Which is why setting the DAW as master makes more sense to me. Maintain the integrity of the audio, and slave the tape machine to a very stable source. In your case though you can’t slave both tape machines to the DAW. The ES-50 only manages one master and one slave, and if you want to bring the DAW into the picture it has to be slave via the MASTER TC LOOP output. If you want to have two tape machines and the DAW and have the DAW as master you need something like a Timeline Micro Lynx. It can handle up to three tape machines (if you have the optional third machine card), and it talks MIDI. So you have the computer connected via MIDI and then the two tape machines, and then you configure which element is master.
I really wish that the ES50/51 manual had been more detailed as to how to operate the thing, there isn't a lot of practical info on it as far as I can tell. The TSR-8/58 manuals were pretty thorough and easy to follow...
Yeah the ES-50 was truly a professional product developed mainly with the video and film production industry in mind, and people in that realm were trained to use such things…like you and I go “how does this thing work?”, and those people understand the terminology and know what to look for, so the manual appears written more for people that just need to know how to access the stuff they know they are looking for or how to execute the standard procedures. But, again, read that thread I posted above at least from post #41 onward…there’s some helpful information in there for how to use the ES-50 with the DAW as master, information I wish I’d had when I was trying to do just that, and failed.
