SG Strap Button Relocation?

[Mickster]

I just bought a used Epiphone SG G400. I never owned an SG before or even ever played one....not even in a music store...for some reason. I noticed that it's neck heavy (neck dive). That's not a big deal for me as I have another guitar that does the same thing. What I really didn't like was how the SG flops forward as it hangs on your body. That causes me to compensate with the way I hold my right arm and left hand. It's not comfortable for me. Maybe time will get me used to it.

Anyway...I've read that moving the strap button from the neck base to the back of the upper horn area helps with the flopping.

Anyone ever tried this or seen this? The Gibson SG HP series seems to have the strap button on the back of the horn.

Your thoughts?

Mick

 

[TalismanRich]

I've had a Guild S100 since 74, and it has the same set up as the SG (hey, it's in the picture on the left!). I can't say that I've ever even thought about the guitar flopping forward, and neck dive was never a problem either. My Melancon T has more dive because of the maple neck and swamp ash body, but using a nice leather strap keeps it from drooping down. I think my best balanced guitars are my Heritage 535 and Dearmond Starfire 4 semi hollow guitars. They just seem to hang perfectly.

I don't see any reason why you couldn't put an extra button up on the horn. That would make it more like a Les Paul but I don't know if it will shift the center of gravity to change the neck dive.

 

[Mickster]

I've had a Guild S100 since 74, and it has the same set up as the SG (hey, it's in the picture on the left!). I can't say that I've ever even thought about the guitar flopping forward, and neck dive was never a problem either. My Melancon T has more dive because of the maple neck and swamp ash body, but using a nice leather strap keeps it from drooping down. I think my best balanced guitars are my Heritage 535 and Dearmond Starfire 4 semi hollow guitars. They just seem to hang perfectly.

I don't see any reason why you couldn't put an extra button up on the horn. That would make it more like a Les Paul but I don't know if it will shift the center of gravity to change the neck dive.

Thanks for the info about the leather strap for the neck dive. I never knew that. Love the Guild S100 by the way.

I'll try that...but as I mentioned my only real issue is how the body tips / flops forward...which is very noticable and awkward for me. It affects the position of my left hand....angling it backward sort of. In thinking about it I guess how your body / stomach is shaped makes the problem worse...or better.

I think when the SG was first designed they realized they couldn't put the strap lock on the tip of the horn like a Strat. There's not much meat there and I suspect it wouldn't be durable.

And...many players had their guitars hanging up much higher on the body...under the arm than we do today....so the forward tip would be sort of controlled more by your right arm (unless you were left handed of course). I don't hang my guitars as high as that...but not real low either.

If I move the strap button it'll be to the back of the body behind the horn.

Mick

 

[Ujn Hunter]

My SG suffers from neck dive as well... I suspect it's partly due to the tuners (and thought about getting some of those real light "stealth tuners"). I've even filled the cavity with tire weights... hoping to fix the issue, but that didn't really help... I've thought of replacing the bridge with one of those Les Trems... but alas I've just learned to only play it sitting down (as a recording guitar only). However, some people will tell you that you should be "wearing" an SG different than other guitars, and claim it should be hung lower around the hip/waist area and it won't neck dive... I've never tried that as I prefer to keep my guitars at a height that is the same sitting as standing... I've also contemplated designing and 3d printing a "horn jig" to relocate the strap button on the horn tip (ala Tony Iommi) but have no time to dedicate to such things... the forward flopping seems like it would affect the Les Paul style guitars too (I've never played one) but even my Schecter V has a strap behind the neck and that doesn't flop forward... so I'm not sure. Best of luck.

 

[Mickster]

Well.....I decided to relocate my neck strap button from the bottom of the neck to the back of the upper horn tip. I used a pic of the back of a Gibson SG High Performance as a guide to place the button. That pretty much did solve my problem with the body tipping forward and it's a lot easier for me to play. It might have helped the neck dive a bit....but not much. BTW I did test out the SG with it hung low...and very low. It did nothing to change the neck dive.
The center of balance is what it is...no matter how low or high you place it.

Oddly enough....and just like Ujn Hunter ^^^^^^ mentioned....this guitar is really easy to play sitting down. I've always had issues playing sitting down after years of only standing up. This SG seems to fit me perfectly.

Mick

 

[so-awesome]

Just get rid of it. Before long you'll find other things that suckkkk about SGs. I had one for years, misguided and trying to love it the whole time, modded it every which way. One day I literally threw it down on the stage in disgust in front of a crowd. By the time I put it up for sale I literally hated that guitar. Would never buy again and I'd rate it -infinity out of 5 stars.

 

[Mickster]

I got it used for $150. I think I'll keep it. I like the way it sounds and the scale. I can use it for recording mostly. It won't replace my Strat or 1976 Gibson LP Custom by any means.

 

[markmann]

Tony Iommi puts the button on the horn:

Or get one of these:

 

[TalismanRich]

Or get one of these:
View attachment 127001

So you need to drill 4 holes in the back of a set neck guitar? Uhhhhhhhhhh.... NO!

It looks like something for a bass guitar, lots of basses have big long horns on the top, probably to balance the long neck.

 

[markmann]

So you need to drill 4 holes in the back of a set neck guitar? Uhhhhhhhhhh.... NO!

It looks like something for a bass guitar, lots of basses have big long horns on the top, probably to balance the long neck.

If you really hate the neck dive.... then yes in the case of an SG. I have also seen versions with two holes and the OP already drilled one hole so why not two if it solves his problem? If that idea is offensive there's always this:

 

[Mickster]

Ohhhhhh....no! No way!! That's quite a contraption....ugly but probably functional. I did see how the Tony Iommi models have the button on the tip of the horn....and I thought about doing that. I finally decided on a compromise position on the BACK of the horn tip where there was far more flat space meat on the bone. That has pretty much the same effect and it cured the forward body tilt / flip problem. Moving it to the tip of the horn does pretty much nothing for neck dive anyway.

 

[Mickster]

If you really hate the neck dive.... then yes in the case of an SG. I have also seen versions with two holes and the OP already drilled one hole so why not two if it solves his problem? If that idea is offensive there's always this:
View attachment 127004

As I mentioned....my main issue was forward body flop. I solved that.....but going to an "old style" strap connection up by the nut is not a bad idea for neck dive AND body flop. Thanks!

 

[GONZO-X]

allan holdsworth placed his button behind the neck on several of his guitars:

 

[Gtoboy]

This whole thing seems strange to me. I bought a Gibson SG ' reissue in ~ 84 ish. It absolutely does not neck dive or flop. I love this guitar. I have the strap set so that the body stays in about the same place standing or sitting ala the B&W photo above. I am a old sorta fat dude now, but I was young and skinny when I bought it. No flop or dive ever. Maybe it's only on certain models or Epiphones?

I only have one guitar that neck dives-an Ibanez artist that is shaped like an SG but has an LP thickness. The odd thing is that I have two of these and the cherry burst does not dive while the tobacco burst does. The tobacco does have a different cap(figured maple I think)

 

[Farview]

You can try getting a strap that isn't as slippery to keep the neck from diving.
A nice thick leather strap should help keep it in place.

 

[Mickster]

This whole thing seems strange to me. I bought a Gibson SG ' reissue in ~ 84 ish. It absolutely does not neck dive or flop. I love this guitar. I have the strap set so that the body stays in about the same place standing or sitting ala the B&W photo above. I am a old sorta fat dude now, but I was young and skinny when I bought it. No flop or dive ever. Maybe it's only on certain models or Epiphones?

I only have one guitar that neck dives-an Ibanez artist that is shaped like an SG but has an LP thickness. The odd thing is that I have two of these and the cherry burst does not dive while the tobacco burst does. The tobacco does have a different cap(figured maple I think)

Yeah...I get it. I'm beginning to think that a persons body / stomach shape has a lot to do with the forward flop issue. As for the neck dive....trust me...this one does but I've got a nice wide leather strap on the way. Problem solved I think!

Mick

 

[Mickster]

Update....the tail piece on Derek Trucks SG weighs a half pound....8.5 ounces. I'll bet that lessens some of the neck dive. My SG came with Grovers with metal knobs. I might change the knobs to plasitc pearl whites to take a lttle weight off. That's more like the classic SG look to me anyway.

I know.....not very interesting....just my mission to work on neck dive.

Mick

 

[Ujn Hunter]

My SG came with Grovers with metal knobs. I might change the knobs to plasitc pearl whites to take a lttle weight off.

Mine too. That's why I've considered changing them for some Stealth Lightweight Tuners... though I'm pretty sure the main issue is that the neck is just way heavier than it should be for the body weight sadly.

 

[Mickster]

Yup...I know no one cares much...and this topic is sorta boring but I'm doing an update.

I changed the Grover tuner knobs from the solid metal type (fair amount of total weight) to some nice looking plastic pearloid looking knobs. They match the pearloid fret markers.

I bought some stick-on tire weights and put about 12 oz on the underside of the cavity cover. There's a good amount of clearance. To be honest....the EPI SG body is very light and a little extra weight really feels better.

I moved the strap button to the back side of the upper horn. The position cured the body forward flop and because it's a bit more toward the nut than where the button was at the base of the neck....it helped...a tiny bit...with neck dive.

Bought a leather strap with a suede sort of backing. It does not slide or slip. If anything...it grabs the shirt too much...but no big deal.

Much better. Now I don't have to think about holding the neck up at all times. My hand and finger position was certainly affected before.

I know.....just play my Strat or LP and stop bitching....right?

Mick

 

[Ujn Hunter]

Thanks for the update. This is what my SG cavity looks like btw...

I didn't add it all up... but it didn't help...