Please come here if you have good advice on what i should buy...

  • Thread starter Thread starter CloseYourEyes
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You are highly inexperienced. But that's OK. It's just that you don't realize how inexperienced you actually are. And that's OK too. If you DID realize how inexperieced you are, you would be just a little less inexperienced. So with a little more experience, soon you may realize just how inexperienced you are... Then you won't feel so much like we think your inexperienced, cuz then you'll know that you are indeed inexperienced. But like I said. it's OK to be inexperienced.:p
 
So is your name really Tyler? Weird :rolleyes:
I still want to know what an 8-track CD burner is.
 
HA!

Subtractor, your last post sounds like a They Might Be Giants song lol... oh yeah, gordone, my name is Tyler and i'm obviously missing the key reason why this situation is so odd.

8-Track CD Burner: n. a rackmounted-style media recorder that records onto a compact disc, has eight recordable tracks.

there ya go, straight outta Tyler's Dictionary.
 
Re: Oh my God...

CloseYourEyes said:
Although i feel like i am on a bbs with a bunch of clones of my dad. yikes...
Click to expand...

Like most of us you will learn your dad probably knows more than you give him credit for.
 
Recommendation

Hi Tyler, since you already have a computer, here is my recommendation:

Soundcraft M12 Mixing Board - best price I found www.northernsound.com $636 with free shipping

Delta M-Audio Audio card (Any will do) - Audiophile 2496, Delta 44, Delta 66, Delta 1010 - from $150 to about $600

Pair of Event Monitors PS6 or Yamaha MSP5 or Genelec 1029 -
Should cost between $500 to $1000

Studio Projects C1 for vocals - $200 (or you can get the Mashall V67 for about the same price)

A pair of Marshall MXL-603 mics for instruments - $200 or less

Shure SM57 for micing your buddy's Marshall amp - $80

RNC Compressor - $180

Studio Projects VTB-1 pre-amp (to add to your already good sounding Ghost preamps in the M12) - $190

Cables, mic stands, soundproof carpeting - $300-$1000?

Software - There are tons out there to choose from with varying degrees of quality and price.

I may have missed some, but you can buy them one by one and learn them as you go. The things listed here are recommended by most people in this forum. With a studio like this, it will depend on your chops what you can do. ONce you learn your craft, you upgrade to something like Blue Bear's stuff.

Good luck to you and remember don't do this for the money (at least not yet). Do it for the fun and satisfaction!!!!
 
I just noticed the part about $25 an hour. That is a bit unrealistic. There are full commercial studios with $50K worth of gear and engineers with 5-10yrs experience that charge that much.
 
8-Track CD Burner: n. a rackmounted-style media recorder that records onto a compact disc, has eight recordable tracks.
Click to expand...

That makes no sense whatsoever. If a cd has 10 tracks on it would it have to be produced with a "10 track" cd burner?

You do your "tracks" on computer or whatever your using. A cd burner only records the final result in digital format. There is no such thing as an "anything track" cd burner. A cd burner is just a cd burner. There are rackmount ones but... They do the exact same thing as every other cd burner, rackmount or not.

Your trying to relate eight track recording with a cd burner. And it aint gonna happen.

Just get a good soundcard/pc, cubase sx or something along those lines, and have a cd burner in your computer. Besides mics, instruments, cables, and any exteraneous gear, that's all you need. SX is 24 track by the way.
 
TexRoadkill said:
I just noticed the part about $25 an hour. That is a bit unrealistic. There are full commercial studios with $50K worth of gear and engineers with 5-10yrs experience that charge that much.
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Really?
The average going rate here is about $65/hr. (for a real pro studio)
The big houses charge over $100/hr.

Now, mind you, there are some $25/hr "studios" here, but it's usually some guy's homestudio, with little to no acoustics, and less than ideal gear. So, in my area, that rate would be about average for what he wants to do.
 
1. Okay, what about one of those Alesis harddrive recorders? Are most of those not 24 tracks?... i'm talking like one of those except w/ a burner built in? Either you are trying to take advantage of a novice and doing good at it or you are very ignorant if you don't understand that. Either way, get over it, we're not even talking about that right now.

2. 60 to 70 bones is the usual going rate here too. 25 bucks is very cheap. (tulsa, ok)
 
In my earlier post, I listed the Digi 001 as what I would pick up. I should have qualified that. I have not used the Digi 001, or any other hardware/software/mic pre combination that would fit in the $800 price range. (I use Samplitude 2496 and an M-Audio Delta 1010, which meets my needs and expectations very well but would gobble up nearly all of Tyler's $1500 budget.) I listed the Digi 001 because everything I've seen and heard about it suggests it is a very good all-in-one package for that price; accordingly, my earlier reference to the Digi 001 reflected what I would buy for $800 based upon others' comments as opposed to my own personal experience. I apologize for not making that clearer in my earlier post. To the extent others on this board have other suggestions of soundcard/software/mic pre combinations in the $800 price range, I would certainly defer to their experience.

Richard, I do not believe that the Digi 001 has phantom power, but I may be wrong. Accordingly, Tyler, if you take Richard's wise advice regarding mics, that $200 of "leftover" budget that I mentioned at the end of my post can purchase a pretty decent mic pre. I love my DMP-3 at that price. There are thousands of "What's the best mic-pre for $200" threads on this board that will give you a good education on your options.

Finally, riffing has a good set of recommendations about a computer. The only thing I would add is PICK YOUR SOUNDCARD AND SOFTWARE FIRST. Once you have made a decision on soundcard and software, go to the soundcard and software manufacturers' tech support people and ask what they recommend for a computer that will be compatible with their product. You will be surprised just how helpful most of the decent manufacturers are about giving you an abundance of specs and details that will help.

Good luck,
Kelby.
 
Michael Jones said:

Really?
The average going rate here is about $65/hr. (for a real pro studio)
The big houses charge over $100/hr.

Now, mind you, there are some $25/hr "studios" here, but it's usually some guy's homestudio, with little to no acoustics, and less than ideal gear. So, in my area, that rate would be about average for what he wants to do.
Click to expand...

The best place in town here, Phase Four, http://www.phasefourstudios.com/index.htm only charges $25 hour (plus engineer) for their smaller studios.

As I recall their A room is only around $45 for 2" studor and an SSL. It's fricken depressing.
 
CYE,

On your question about the Alesis 24 track. I'll keep this as simple as I can, not because I don't think you know much, but because you seem to be reaching an impasse with some of the folks on the board about this "8-track CD burner" thing and the best way to resolve an impasse is to take everything to its lowest level.

Let's start with some definitions to make sure we are all using the same words the same way.

"Tracks" can mean two things. First, it can mean the number of songs on a CD. Second, it can refer to the channels used to create a single song, each channel being represented by a separate fader on your mixer. A song can be created using a single track, four tracks, 8 tracks, or 12,000 tracks, depending only on the limits of your recording system. We are all using the second definition; I believe you already understood that, but it never hurts to make sure.

When we talk about a "CD Burner," we are refering solely to the compact disc player/burner itself. Similar to what you would have in your hand if you took your computer apart and pulled out the CD player. The CD burner does not have a mixer, inputs, preamps, or anything else.

The Alesis unit you describe has a CD burner in it. But the CD burner is only a small part of it. The bulk of the unit is a recording unit that includes inputs, preamps, a 24-channel mixer and a hard drive.

While recording, the Alesis hard drive stores detailed information about all the tracks that are going through the mixer. A lot of that detailed information never goes to the CD burner --- after all, by the time you are ready to burn a CD, you only want to hear how the entire song sounds, and you have no need for detailed information about how many tracks were used to create the song, what sounds went on what tracks, or what processing went into each track. So all of that detailed track-by-track information is deleted and the tracks are merged into a single audio stream in a format that CD players understand (i.e., Red Book format) and are then recorded on the CD by the CD burner. The concept of "tracks" is eliminated from the music signal before it ever gets to the CD burner.

Which brings us to the bottom line. The Alesis unit is indeed a 24 track recorder, because it allows you to record and mix music using 24 tracks. As long as that information is on the hard drive, you can continue to play with each track separately. But when you send it to the CD Burner, the track distinctions are eliminated. Thus, while the Alesis is a 24 track recorder, the CD burner in the Alesis unit is not a 24 track CD burner.

Does this help resolve the impasse?

Regards,
Kelby.
 
I just called Phase 4 and their posted rates for the 3 studios are $25, $45, and $75 + $15 for an engineer. A friend of mine has done some work over there and they will do even better deals if you buy blocks and work off hours etc.

So if you compare the available facilities it's hard to charge somebody $25 an hour to play in a stuffy garage with no AC when for a little more they could be playing pool and enjoying the hot tub while the bass player does his tracks.

Chaton is pretty nice also. They post $65 an hour for their B room. In my experience only corporate and big label clients pay close to the posted rates. Most studios will cut deals to keep the rooms busy so it is hard to compete unless your services are extra special.

My intentions are not to discourage Tyler but just to give him a little persective. If I was in his place (age and equipment) I would be happy to be paid anything at all. Expect about $10-15 an hour if your lucky. Even Harvey only charges around $40 an hour at his place and he is older than sound itself ;)
 
Tex,

Studio rates vary wildly by geographic location. Cost of real estate, local standard of living, and other costs of doing business are the driving factors.

I have friends in Manhattan with minimalist Pro Tools or ADAT setups charging $60-$75 per hour. (Of course, they also have good skills). It's all about what the going rate is and what your competitors are charging.

Comparing studio rates from different parts of the country is probably not a useful way of judging the relative quality of their gear or skills.
 
Damn Tex. That is depressing.
When I say $65/hr here, thats with an engineer. $45/hr without. But, YOU can't be the engineer. I dunno why they quote a rate without an engineer.??

These places are what I call the "Big Houses". Arlyn is in downtown Austin, and Pedernales is Willie Nelson's old studio.
 
Kelby said:
Thus, while the Alesis is a 24 track recorder, the CD burner in the Alesis unit is not a 24 track CD burner.
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Hmmm... there ae a couple of points here.........

Specifically regarding the Alesis unit(s)... you are talking two separate units here....

There is the HD24 24-track digital recorder... this is simply 24-tracks of hard-disk recorder -- no mixer, no pres nothing but recording... it has 2 hard-disk bays, and NO CD-burner.

Alesis does have a Mixdown unit/CD-burner called the Masterlink, which is a 2-track recorder that you use to mix the multitracks down onto from your mixe....

The Masterlink is NOT a multitrack unit but it DOES have a CD-burner on-board, and it produces both Redbook audio and CD24 (hi-res) CDs...
 
8-Track CD Recorder

Tyler, do you mean an 8-CDR Drive array? It burns 8 CDs at a time. Pretty awesome duplicator.
 
Michael Jones said:
Damn Tex. That is depressing.
When I say $65/hr here, thats with an engineer. $45/hr without. But, YOU can't be the engineer. I dunno why they quote a rate without an engineer.??

These places are what I call the "Big Houses". Arlyn is in downtown Austin, and Pedernales is Willie Nelson's old studio.
Click to expand...

You can use your own engineer so I guess that's why they quote it that way. Those are some pretty sweet live rooms at those Austin studios. I think if a home reccer wants to make any money they better have a pretty nice tracking room.
 
Despite what a lot of other people have said on this thread, I believe a kick-ass, "pro-quality" studio can be had for under $6500. It wouldn't have any vintage mics (or even Neumann mics), but I don't think a lot of people would disagree that the setup described below, if used by someone who knows their stuff, could yield pro quality results.

This setup is designed to get good quality signals into the computer, with all mixing being done inside the computer. That said, here is my hypothetical, kick-ass $6500 studio:

Computer:

If you can put together your own box, you can do it for $500 with parts from newegg.com (this is assuming you already have a monitor). This box will run all the audio and effects you could ever dream of needing.

Sound Card:

MAudio Delta 1010 lt - $379 from 8th street
8 analog ins and outs. Enough to simultaneously record drums and maybe guitar. If that's not enough I/O for you, save up and get two of these.

Mixer:

Soundcraft Spirit M Series M8 16 Channel Mixer - $599 right now at Musicians Friend. In this setup, you would basically be using it as eight channels of EQ and mic pre.

Mic Preamp:

Avalon VT737 - $1,800 from Musicians's Friend. One channel of pure preamp perfection.

Mics:

Rode NTK for vocals and anything else you'd normally use a LD condensor on. - $400-500 depending on sales at places like 8th street and Musicians Advocate.

A pair of MXL 603s for overheads- $150

Four SM57s for toms and snare on Ebay - around $200

Shure Beta 52 for Kick and Bass Amp- $189 at 8th street

Software:

Cakewalk Sonar 2.0 - $299 everywhere. One of the most powerful sequencers available, at any price.

Waves Renaissance Native 3.5 - $225 at audiomidi.com. Some of the best EQ, reverb, and compression plug-ins available on the market. You can cover all of your basic processing needs with this collection.

Sound Forge Studio 6.0 for two-track editing - $60

Outboard:

Since we are using plug-ins for most of our signal processing, the only outboard gear that you'd really need would be a few channels of compression to process signals before they hit your sound card. I would get three RNCs and call it good. Hopefully you're not compressing drum overheads on the way in, so three stereo channels of compression should be enough. - $525 from 8thstreet.com

Oh, I almost forgot, you'll need a patch bay to make it easy to connect your gear up any way you'd like. Furman PB-48 Patch Bay - $125 at Musicians Friend

Monitors:

Event 20/20s - $309 from 8thstreet

Hafler TA1100 amp - $199 from 8thstreet

That totals $6009, which leaves a little under $500 for cables. That should be plenty.

So, there you go, a killer studio that will allow you pro sounding results. Anyone disagree?

As far as the ethics of charging $25 for inexperienced engineering, I'll have to concur with Blue Bear. I don't think that that price point is appropriate at all. If you learn how to use this stuff, and your songs start approaching the level of quality of Blue Bear or Sonusman, $25-$40/hr is fine. Until then, I don't think it would be right to charge more than $12-$15/hr.
 
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