Please come here if you have good advice on what i should buy...

  • Thread starter Thread starter CloseYourEyes
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I don't think you need $50,000 to start a studio to make money with. Not at all....
You can use the computer that you're using now, a couple hundred dollar piece of software for multitracking and a decent mic or two...or three for under $1000, and maybe a preamp or two. Add a decent sound card, and some good monitors, some extra peripherals like cables, etc..and you've got a kick butt setup for recording limited tracks at a time. Sure...no full swing bands, for sure, but for overdubing style recording...you're in like Flynn. You should easily be in under 5 grand with the above setup. Personally, I've got (and had) a lot more, but for the stuff that I'm recording nowadays for $35-50/hr ....I could use quite a lot less gear and do the lions share on the computer. Ok...spend 20 grand a get a full blown Pro tools [and waste your money at this stage of the game...or get a used I 24mix setup for much less]. 50 grand of gear just attracts clients and makes it possible to do more a variety of things. The quality won't necessarily be better. Things are NOT like the days of yore... your 5 grand will go MUCH farther than it will...say...10-15 years ago. No...not world class...but VERY GOOD. If you are just recording solo acts, this will do just fine, for example. If you need 15 live mics and decent isolation, great rooms, and such...then you're in a different boat. If you do mostly synth and vocals and minimum mic'ing...the above could be a great setup.

oh..btw...your questions do raise some eyebrows...kinda like the new teenage driver going..."I want the BEST car and...I wanna race NASCAR next year.......and I know it's gotta have mag wheels..and 6 speakers WITH a subwoofer...and a reverb unit in the trunk....and I've heard spoilers are good...so I'll want one of those...and two doors are a pain..so I'll stick with Caravans....blah, blah, blah... hence the suspicions and smart remarks... The name "tyler" has a history too....eh tyler?? Plus...you gotta be a good ole' boy to race NASCAR;)
 
oh...btw...go check the MP3 clinic...and some selected people have done some very FINE recordings with less than $5K in their setup. Why couldn't a client get just as good a sound? No reason in my book if the stars are right... A TAKE CHARGE studio owner that explains what goes UPFRONT, has excellent communication skills, recording techniques, people skills, and a knack for doing things efficiently shouldn't have TOO much a problem. The dude that buys some ADATs and a $4000 Soundcraft Ghost mixing board, and some mics, but doesn't have a clue, and is a insensitive to people['s needs] will struggle. The world is full of those types, and the low budget recording industry is thriving because of them.....(and the fact that you can get some decent gear inexpensively too!) Those people will easily spend more money on gear than they can ever hope to make back in hourly rates...

Don't forget selling your artistic skills...both as a graphic designer and musician....as well as producer, ...and of course the middle man for replicating, packaging..etc. You say you can bring in musicians for $50/hour...but charge $75?? that too!! Oh...if you're really bold...might as well sell you engineering skills too. ...the base rate is for the studio only....right??!!??
 
I'll try to help

...and be succint.

It is certainly possible to get enough gear to start on for about $5000. And since you're keen to emphasize that you want a set-up to begin with, I think it's the way to go. You'll be able to get enough gear to gain experience with all the major aspects of the recording process.

I know you can get a recording set-up for this much because I've done it. You won't be getting great bits of gear or huge brand names but if you're recording demos for local garage bands, I'd guess a lo-fi output is going to be accaeptable.

The demos I produce sound better than the demos I've heard by bands recording in a pay-per-hour studio from 10 years ago and I'm moderately happy with them (which is what matters).

The final point (and possibly most important) is that this kind of setup should be sufficient to encourage local bands to volunteer to come in to record. They probably won't pay anything over cost (ie media, materials, power etc) which is what I cahrge, ie I make no money. I do it for the fun, satisfaction of producing cds for bands I like, and for the experience. Who knows, one day I might be good enough to get a tea making job in a pro studio :)

Just to emphasize the cheap gear thing, I use a home-made desktop PC (bang for the buck!),mid range 8i/o soundcard, Behrenger mixer with 8 pre-amps, a range of about 8 quality budget mics (if that's not a contradiction in terms!), plug-in FX and an outboard compressor. I make the cables myself. I don't use balanced connection in the most part, but nor do I use long cable runs. I have a CD writer in the PC for data storage/mastering and I connect the whole lot to a hi-fi amp, in turn connected to budget monitors.

It's not ideal, or super quality, but it does the job. I'm continually wanting to upgrade, but have no money (the slogan of the homerecordist!).

I hope that is of some help/guidance. I wish you good luck, and hope that you have as much fun as I do!

matt

I forgot to mention, you can hear results of a slightly less good set-up at www.mp3.com/carolynn
 
Not directed at anyone in particular....

Everyone's talking about gear........

No one's mentioned the "ethics" of charging $25/hour for unskilled engineering.............

If someone charges any more than pizza money for a recording, then there should be SOME inherent expectation that the engineer is skilled enough to produce acceptable results.........

If someone knows they're not qualified, how can one feel ethically justified in charging for their "skills"........
 
Bruce has a point (duh!) One has to do a couple of "charity gigs" to prove oneself.. then one can start dealing with the bands about a reasonable fee.

Close.. before you buy ANYTHING. Do some MASSIVE research of what you NEED, and if the gear you buy still will be up to pair in a couple of years.
I'd still recommend HD24 (which IS a bargain), GOOD monitors, a mixer with nice preamps (Mackie, Soundcraft, Allen & Heath) and a DAW. Good equipment will serve you right from day one, and will keep doing it to a professional level. If you buy a Korg (or whatever brand) All in Wonder, you set a limit for yourself. This limit can of course be well above your ambition, so I still don't rule out that alternative.

Whatever path you choose... DON'T hurry your decisions, and DON'T go cheap when you buy monitors.
 
::sigh::

Blue Bear, if i wanted to ask how ethical it would be for me to charge 25 bones to record someone, i would have asked "Please come here if you have good advice on how much i should charge." I merely said i want to have a good enough setup(and yes i do understand that i will need the skills too) to be able to charge 25 bucks an hour. That's all folks.
 
...I'm more concerned with why you didn't pull all A's....
You had an agreement with Granny and you're trying to pro-rate your achievement (or lack thereof) into a quantifiable cash value.

I imagine that sounds a bit condescending and judgemental...sorry, I'm a parent. But here's what I'm getting at:
If you want something bad enough, you've got to go above and beyond, not just get by. Ask the pros here (I'm not one BTW) how many free gigs, or those that they wound up making a piddly hourly rate on they did just to get experience. So I bet if you EARNED that 5k, you'd find a way to get the best bang for the buck.

I'm not a pro, but I've worked every hour of free time over the past five years into getting a studio together, writing songs, working on my playing (20 yrs of guitar/bass) and finishing my attic just to house all the shit. It's a commitment. And a lot harder than taking home good grades (try a full-time 50-hr plus job and raising a family, not to mention home maintenance, etc.) Every bit of knowledge has been hard earned, and though I've gotten some good results, I still consider myself a novice (I've got a few in the mp3 clinic). I also feel I'm getting better results at home on some songs I did in a pro studio a couple of years ago.

End of lecture.

I think Tex and Mixmkr gave you some good advice. My mics, PC, interface, software, mixers, etc. come to about five grand. I think you can get good results with that. If your ears and what's between them are up to the challenge. I don't have all the high end stuff (I was told that I'll know when to upgrade - by a pro), but I wouldn't have any qualms about charging a modest fee for my service at this stage, either.
 
Blue Bear, if i wanted to ask how ethical it would be for me to charge 25 bones to record someone, i would have asked "Please come here if you have good advice on how much i should charge." I merely said i want to have a good enough setup(and yes i do understand that i will need the skills too) to be able to charge 25 bucks an hour. That's all folks.
Click to expand...

Blue Bear, we can't take you anywhere without someone startin' shit can we?
 
If it were me . . .

Let's suppose I'm you. I'm just getting out of HS, and I want to seriously upgrade my recording system. In terms of resources, I have a new computer coming to me courtesy of my parents. I also have $1500 coming upon graduation. (I know you said maybe up to $6000, but "maybe"s have a nasty way of turning into "probably not"s. If I got $6000, my plan would change significantly; but this story assumes $1500.) Here's what I would do.

1. Given the limited resources, I'd make full use of that computer and put together a DAW system. A computer plus $1500 in hardware goes much further than $1500 in hardware. A laptop wouldn't work. I also would not get a Dell, Compaq, etc., because for the same money I could get a pretty good computer (without the soundcard and recording software, discussed below) that is tailored for recording. Search the computer recording & soundcards forum archives for details on what that computer should look like. I would have one custom-made.

2. I would next pick up a Digi 001 system. For $800, that takes care of a decent soundcard, recording/mixing/mastering software, 8 inputs, and a couple mic pres. Still $700 left in the budget.

3. Next is mics. If I didn't already have something decent, I'd spend three or four hundred bucks and pick up a couple SM57s and 58s and some decent cables. I'd buy better mics when I had more money. Still $300-400 left in the budget.

4. Next is monitors. Two options. Option 1: Get a pair of $300-$400 active monitors. (Search the mixing/mastering forum for opinions on good monitors in that price range.) Option 2: Buy a good pair of headphones ($100) and save up for some better monitors. I would go with option two, but that's 'cause I'm a monitor snob. Still $200-300 left in the budget.

5. Either put away the last $200-300 and keep saving for some good monitors, or spend it on a couple effects plug-ins.

6. Get a job and start saving, 'cause this hobby gets expensive really quick.

This set-up will not put you in competition with the big-name studios. But if you browse the MP3 Mixing Clinic forum, you will find quite a few folks putting together some very good mixes using equipment similar in price and quality. With practice, you will do the same. Do not charge for your work to start with. It's not a matter of ethics; it's a matter of people won't pay for shit, and shit is what your first recordings will sound like. So beg your friends to let you record them for free. When you're friends won't play for you, record yourself. Post your mixes on the MP3 Mixing Clinic and beg for feedback. Over time, your experience and equipment inventory will improve, and you will be able to charge people.

Good luck. Keep us posted on how things come out.
 
Great post Kelby. I'm a console recorder, so I'm not up on good soundcards and DAW style interfaces. I did, however, pick up on the concept that if a computer is already in the budget, it would be dumb not to use it as a recorder. Does the digi give you phantom power? The only real changes I would make to your plan is to switch out some 57's/58's for a couple of condensers. If you don't get phantom power, this requires an outboard preamp.
I would probably opt for a pair of MXL 603's and an MK319 (IMHO better for recording "what teenagers play" than a C1). If you want to be an engineer, you will need to learn to use condensers. Of course you need dynamics, and SM57 is cheap and effective for that. Later add a Beta 57, AKG D112, or similar. for kick drum. Those little 603's will be good for drum overheads, with dynamics on snares and toms. A large diaphragm condenser with a good shock mount and pop filter will give you something to put up for vocals that won't make you look totally clueless. Then, my man, you start to fill some racks over time, that's some of the expensive *years* that Kelby describes.
In the meantime, for fairly cheap, you can work on your room. If you like scrounging and hard work, fiberglass insulation, carpet remnants, and plywood, screws, and a good staple gun may be some of your best invesments. If you don't like hard work, you're in the wrong line.-Richie
 
Blue Bear, we can't take you anywhere without someone startin' shit can we?
Click to expand...
Next time we go drinkin' we're leavin' him at the studio.

I can't afford that much bail.:D
 
Re: Not directed at anyone in particular....

Blue Bear Sound said:
Everyone's talking about gear........

No one's mentioned the "ethics" of charging $25/hour for unskilled engineering.............

If someone charges any more than pizza money for a recording, then there should be SOME inherent expectation that the engineer is skilled enough to produce acceptable results.........

If someone knows they're not qualified, how can one feel ethically justified in charging for their "skills"........
Click to expand...

I know what you're saying Blue, and to some extent, I agree.

I can't practice (Civil) engineering without a license, a doctor can't practice medicine without a license, and an attorney must also have a license to sell his services.
But, unlike recording music, all of those professions have a direct result on the health and well being of those who would seek that particular service, and, in some cases, the general public as a whole.
I realize those are legal rather than ethical ramifications, and one would hope that an individual selling a service is indeed qualified to do so, but of course, that's not always the case.

However, If you are indeed qualified to render a product or service that is good, people will come back for more of it, and word of mouth will get around.

If your product is not good, people wont come back, and word of mouth will get around.
The checks and balances are inherent to the final product, thus keeping the un-qualified at bay.
 
Re: Not directed at anyone in particular....

Blue Bear Sound said:
Everyone's talking about gear........

No one's mentioned the "ethics" of charging $25/hour for unskilled engineering.............

If someone charges any more than pizza money for a recording, then there should be SOME inherent expectation that the engineer is skilled enough to produce acceptable results.........

If someone knows they're not qualified, how can one feel ethically justified in charging for their "skills"........
Click to expand...

Man...that stuff happens all the time. Look at the world around you. I'm sure you can give me a list of studios that charge twice that, in which your abilities would easily surpass theirs. (they're just recording a lot of Christian groups that like to "donate" to the "cause.");) But seriously, I've had people tip me $100 above my $35+/hr rates for an evenings work....and my "ethics" always make me say, "thank-you!!"
 
Its not so much an ethics thing as it is a repeat buisness thing,and a word of mouth thing. It would be a good idea to enroll in a program at your comunity college and learn to be an engineer, and then volunteer at night at a local studio. Get the setup that has the mackie 24 track, and the 24 channel M series soundcraft, and go with a small aray of Studio progects mics.

If you allready have s small background of recording with the 8 track, you will be ahead of the curve.


I didnt get squat for graduating:mad:
 
Re: Re: Not directed at anyone in particular....

Michael Jones said:
But, unlike recording music, all of those professions have a direct result on the health and well being of those who would seek that particular service, and, in some cases, the general public as a whole.
Click to expand...
Well I don't know about that.... have you heard a lot of the shit on the radio lately??? My ear's health is certainly in question!!!

The last thing the music industry needs is more rookie engineering!!!!


:D :D
 
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Re: Re: Re: Not directed at anyone in particular....

Blue Bear Sound said:
Well I don't know about that.... have you heard a lot of the shit on the radio lately??? My ear's health is certainly in question!!!

:D :D
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Yeah, well, I can't refute that!
 
Re: Re: Re: Not directed at anyone in particular....

Originally posted by Blue Bear Sound
The last thing the music industry needs is more rookie engineering!!!!
Click to expand...

Maybe so but what happens after YOU dinosaurs die off?!?!? lol, i'm kidding.
 
CYE, There are a lot of wisdom on these forums and though you feel they're not hearing you, I'm not sure you're hearing them either.

$25/hr does seem like a steep price to charge for someone not more experienced than you. Then again, it's all about supply and demand, ain't it? If your clients are willing to pay you that rate and you keep getting clients, then good for you. I'm only a beginner and have done lots for free and the one client I do have (although she is a repeat customer) I'm only charging $10/hr. Obviously, this is not a profession for me but just a hobby.

If you go the PC route here's my suggestion:

* Get a fast processor. P4 1.5 GHz or faster will be good
* Get 512 MB RAM or more
* If you choose to go Pro Tools LE/Digi001, get Windows XP Home (not Pro)
* No need for a high end video for recording. 16 MB RAM card will suffice
* No need for a network card or modem or sound card (well, not a sound card like SoundBlaster - you'll need something more for audio and not gaming. If you get Digi001 then you're set)

People here are trying to help you not waste your money. It sounds like you're going to anyway, and not that I blame you, but don't expect anything close to pro results. Here's my suggestion for you:

* Get the computer as above and dedicate this to audio.
(If you get Pro Tools/Digi001, ignore the next two bullets)
* Get an audio card depending on what you're gonna need for I/O. The more ins and out, the more flexible. M-Audio is worth checking out.
* For software recording and mixing, check out Pro Tools Free or n-Tracks.
* Get a mixer. Someone recommended Soundcraft. Mackie VLZ Pro series is also worth a look.
* Get a LD mic for vocals and instrument miking. Studio Projects C1 is a good price performer.
* Get a pair of condenser for stereo miking/OHs. Check out Oktava MC012.
* Get a snare mic. Check out Shure SM57.
* Get a kick drum mix. Check our AKG D112.
* Get a DI box for direct bass recording. Active DI may be better than passive DI.
* Get a pair of monitors. Someone suggested the Mackie.
* Get all the cables and stands.
* If you want a compressor, check out RNC
* If you want to edit digital audio, check out Sound Forge.

Here's a hypothetical situation: OK, now you hook everything up, you record a mediocre or even good band, and you mix it the best you can. You listen to it next to a pro record and you are still not be happy. You keep upgrading your equipment thinking it's the reason you're not getting pro results. You keep doing research. You keep buying. In your research, you hear great things about mastering. Since you don't have enough money to send it out to a real mastering engineer, you buy some kind of mastering software. You're still not happy with your results. Eventually, you realize that your lack of technique more than lack of gear is preventing you from getting pro results. You realize the people who you thought weren't trying to help actually were warning you about this. You made some purchases that you probably shouldn't have but you made some decent ones, too. But you know what? If you had fun on the way, then it's all that matters. If you really wanted to be a professional recording engineer, then you would've signed up for a real recording class and/or interned with a real studio, right?
 
Thanx!

Riffing, your words are wise. It's not that i'm not listening. I just think you guys are assuming that i am highly inexperienced... seriously, like beginner level. I mean, i'm still very amateur and definately not even close to pro at all but i've been recording w/ my digital 8 for about a year now and i HAVE read quite a bit on the art. So basically, i'm just trying to find out what the next step up is but everyone seems to feel the need to tell me i'm not ready. I learn by experience, i'll find out THE best way to use my equiptment i'll be getting. -Tyler
 
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