Otari Mx5050BQii 4 channel deck XLR to RCA problem :SOLVED:

[Jzoha18]

Right. Otari wants you to strap pin 2 to pin 1 in your cable so you don’t have this unterminated antenna (essentially) in your cable. Remember they are directing you to do this based on a pin 3 hot system. If it was a pin 2 hot system the you’d be strapping pins 1 & 3. Now look again at the detailed information on monoprice regarding your cable you bought. Yes, that’s right, they e already done it for you, pins 1 & 3 are connected. So there’s nothing to do there if you convert the Otari to pin 2 hot.

Now here’s where I get confused again. So you did try the phase reversal adapter and it didn’t work, huh? First of all, get comfortable with this: reversing pins 2 & 3 is reversing the phase. That’s what you are doing, if it is a balanced circuit. Yours is not, at least as far as we know. So by reversing pins 2 & 3 you are just moving your signal conductor from pin 3 to pin 2 where you need it. So if the adapter reverses pins 2 & 3, that should work. Why I doesn’t I don’t know. I wanted to verify that what it does is reverse pins 2 & 3 but there was nothing Sweetwater confirming that. Maybe you should set your meter to ohms again and verify what pins connect to what pins from one end to the next. It should be this

pin 1 to pin 1
pin 2 to pin 3
pin 3 to pin 2

So check that out, and you also may want to try my suggestion with the hookup wire. Not eloquent but would rule out a bigger problem with the system.

since this is not a balanced circuit could forgetting the adapters and working towards a more permanent solution such as my idea of swapping the decks pins be a better idea so i can use any old XLR to RCA and just label the deck pin 2 hot? if i could be perfectly honest i would have a better time working on the sturdy and spacious XLRs otari provides then opening up cables. Swapping pins on the deck and verifying continuity and using a brand new cable. Im not trying to be difficult im just wondering with what we have learned so far about the decks XLR config and the specific cables i have if it would make more sense than messing with the adapters?

 

[Jzoha18]

Sure thing.

So where are we at?

And thanks for the clarification regarding the model. I wasn’t sure.

well i would like to get at the decks pins and see what happens with the monoprice cable. it seems certain its pin 3 and my cable is defeating the signal sending it to the RCA sleeve which doesnt pass through the TS adapter connected to the mackies direct out or a tascam m30 direct out. I have also been speaking with a personal local tech about this and he has his own concerns that doesnt involve the pins. perhaps i should add that to this reply so if i do solve this problem of signal flow we can tackle it after the fact. This is his concerns and what he had to say. this is a paraphrase of what he said
"3 conductor jacks on the Otari are Lo Z, You will need Hi Z to Lo Z adaptors or boxes"
what do you make of this?

 

[rob aylestone]

You're struggling with the ultra basics, so don't leap ahead with this kind of stuff until you've troubleshooted the basic interconnects with no adaptors and bodges. It really is NOT complicated. All the adaptors and connectors are confusing the really simple issue which will 99% be a simply shorting of the wrong line. A low impedance output will feed a higher impedance source with no issues you will notice. I'm surprised the local tech didn't simply sort this out in five minutes - it's a really easy thing to fix, once the silly things are got out of the way.

 

[sweetbeats]

since this is not a balanced circuit could forgetting the adapters and working towards a more permanent solution such as my idea of swapping the decks pins be a better idea so i can use any old XLR to RCA and just label the deck pin 2 hot? if i could be perfectly honest i would have a better time working on the sturdy and spacious XLRs otari provides then opening up cables. Swapping pins on the deck and verifying continuity and using a brand new cable. Im not trying to be difficult im just wondering with what we have learned so far about the decks XLR config and the specific cables i have if it would make more sense than messing with the adapters?

I prefer avoiding using unnecessary adapters long term. They are great for in-a-pinch solutions or temporary circumstances, but for a more permanent setup I’d rather make a cable or snake or whatever to get the job done. The thing is there are still unanswered questions with your situation…the phase inverting adapter should have worked. So that’s where it comes to my suggestion of cobbling together some hookup cable and a TS-TS cable and getting it at least working with that, or Rob’s suggestion with patching together two cut cables, before swapping connections at the XLR with the potential mistaken assumption that’s going to make it work. You’d be doing exactly what, in theory, the phase adapter was doing. And that didn’t work.

 

[sweetbeats]

well i would like to get at the decks pins and see what happens with the monoprice cable. it seems certain its pin 3 and my cable is defeating the signal sending it to the RCA sleeve which doesnt pass through the TS adapter connected to the mackies direct out or a tascam m30 direct out. I have also been speaking with a personal local tech about this and he has his own concerns that doesnt involve the pins. perhaps i should add that to this reply so if i do solve this problem of signal flow we can tackle it after the fact. This is his concerns and what he had to say. this is a paraphrase of what he said
"3 conductor jacks on the Otari are Lo Z, You will need Hi Z to Lo Z adaptors or boxes"
what do you make of this?

Well the tech is correct if you are feeding the inputs with a high impedance source, which you are not. I’m not sure where the tech is coming from on that one…I feel like there must be more to this story. But the Otari inputs are line level high impedance, and any typical line level source will work fine.

 

[Jzoha18]

Well the tech is correct if you are feeding the inputs with a high impedance source, which you are not. I’m not sure where the tech is coming from on that one…I feel like there must be more to this story. But the Otari inputs are line level high impedance, and any typical line level source will work fi

I prefer avoiding using unnecessary adapters long term. They are great for in-a-pinch solutions or temporary circumstances, but for a more permanent setup I’d rather make a cable or snake or whatever to get the job done. The thing is there are still unanswered questions with your situation…the phase inverting adapter should have worked. So that’s where it comes to my suggestion of cobbling together some hookup cable and a TS-TS cable and getting it at least working with that, or Rob’s suggestion with patching together two cut cables, before swapping connections at the XLR with the potential mistaken assumption that’s going to make it work. You’d be doing exactly what, in theory, the phase adapter was doing. And that didn’t work.

ok so snip an XLR cable and an insert cable and fish the leads out and test the circuit? can i use a TS cable to touch the leads to the XLR?

 

[Jzoha18]

Also can i use an old RCA cable to test with the XLR since thats what i have currently to rig it up? XLR to RCA cables? RCA and TS are basically similar right? on my two mixers similar inputs and outputs use both (mackie TS, Tascam RCA)

 

[Jzoha18]

heres what i got from an old XLR cable

 

[Jzoha18]

heres my RCA. The manual has instructions for using single conducter cables with the XLR. Would that be appropriate for this? What connections do i make from here? DO i make refrence to the manual where it says this about single conducter cables?
"For unbalanced inputs using single-conductor shielded cable, wire the male XLR connector as follows: 1. Connect the center conductor of the single-conductor shielded cable to pin 3 of the connector. 2. Connect the cable shield to pins 1 and 2."

 

[rob aylestone]

Where is the RCA going? You've got the XLR end sorted but you really need to get away fro the unbalanced RCA with adaptors to the insert - HOWEVER - if the RCA and adapter it working, tapping the Yellow conductor copper, with the mixer turned up should produce some noise - if tapping it doesn't, then the adaptors and sniff circuit from the half inserted plug are not working. Have you got an old pair of headphones with a ¼" plug? That would do to get you access to all three conductors (the tip, ring and sleeve).

What you really want are the right end to end connectors and no adaptors - so for the insert it's the jack and if you have a proper RCA input on the mixer - then your cables in the picture will work. If that cello cable buzzes, then join the grounds and on the blue cable, the transparent or red one will give you sound.

 

[Jzoha18]

Where is the RCA going? You've got the XLR end sorted but you really need to get away fro the unbalanced RCA with adaptors to the insert - HOWEVER - if the RCA and adapter it working, tapping the Yellow conductor copper, with the mixer turned up should produce some noise - if tapping it doesn't, then the adaptors and sniff circuit from the half inserted plug are not working. Have you got an old pair of headphones with a ¼" plug? That would do to get you access to all three conductors (the tip, ring and sleeve).

What you really want are the right end to end connectors and no adaptors - so for the insert it's the jack and if you have a proper RCA input on the mixer - then your cables in the picture will work. If that cello cable buzzes, then join the grounds and on the blue cable, the transparent or red one will give you sound.

The RCA with the adapter is going to the direct out on the Mackie CR1604. I use adapters and RCA snakes for my other decks with this mixer And it works just fine on first click

 

[Jzoha18]

Where is the RCA going? You've got the XLR end sorted but you really need to get away fro the unbalanced RCA with adaptors to the insert - HOWEVER - if the RCA and adapter it working, tapping the Yellow conductor copper, with the mixer turned up should produce some noise - if tapping it doesn't, then the adaptors and sniff circuit from the half inserted plug are not working. Have you got an old pair of headphones with a ¼" plug? That would do to get you access to all three conductors (the tip, ring and sleeve).

What you really want are the right end to end connectors and no adaptors - so for the insert it's the jack and if you have a proper RCA input on the mixer - then your cables in the picture will work. If that cello cable buzzes, then join the grounds and on the blue cable, the transparent or red one will give you sound.

So connecting the leads together the mixer is no longer defeated when connected to the deck but I still can't get any signal on the VU meters

 

[Jzoha18]

While testing the cables I remembered when I got this deck channel 4 came unseated and I had to open it to reseat it so I thought I'd take a look inside and see if anything weird happened to the line inputs. I noticed the line input is set to High instead of factory Low. Do you think this might be why I can't see any movement? According to the manual High is +4db where as Low is -18db

 

[Jzoha18]

The line inputs appear to be seated correctly. This is so strange we got the pinout. We tested cables and got the mixer to stop being defeated but still nothing. Let me try with the line Input switch set to factory specs

 

[Jzoha18]

Ok so here's what we got. Red wire connected to sleeve. Transparent to yellow. Mixer defeated. Red to yellow and transparent to sleeve signal not defeated. Still no level showing on the VU meters. This is driving me nuts! It doesn't seem to be the adapter on the RCA. That configuration works on every other deck I own. I'm really scratching my head here

 

[sweetbeats]

Why are you so fixated on the meter? Yes set the level switch to -18, and set the tape machine to monitor the input. Is there a headphone jack on the tape machine? So you can actually listen to determine if you can hear anything? You know it’s possible let the meter could be dead. Have you tried other inputs?

Bare copper of RCA cable should go to bare copper of XLR cable. Yellow of RCA cable should go to red of XLR cable. If that doesn’t work try yellow to white.

Make sure your RCA - TS adapter is only inserted to the first click. If you insert a TS plug all the way into the ACCESS jack the source connected to the respective channel input won’t propagate to through channel.

Try other tape deck channels.

 

[Jzoha18]

Why are you so fixated on the meter? Yes set the level switch to -18, and set the tape machine to monitor the input. Is there a headphone jack on the tape machine? So you can actually listen to determine if you can hear anything? You know it’s possible let the meter could be dead. Have you tried other inputs?

Bare copper of RCA cable should go to bare copper of XLR cable. Yellow of RCA cable should go to red of XLR cable. If that doesn’t work try yellow to white.

Make sure your RCA - TS adapter is only inserted to the first click. If you insert a TS plug all the way into the ACCESS jack the source connected to the respective channel input won’t propagate to through channel.

Try other tape deck channels.

I tried other channels. The VU meters are not dead the mic Inputs on the front drive them on recording and playback. I followed your instructions with the decks headphone out and with red on yellow I got extremely faint tinny monitoring of the signal through all channels on the deck

 

[Jzoha18]

I tried other channels. The VU meters are not dead the mic Inputs on the front drive them on recording and playback. I followed your instructions with the decks headphone out and with red on yellow I got extremely faint tinny monitoring of the signal through all channels on the deck

TS adapter inserted on first click as usual. Main outs of mixer not defeated like before. Unfortunately still barely any playback.

 

[sweetbeats]

Ummm…shouldn’t the input level switches SW201 be set to “L” for low level? By setting them to “H” the input amp is expecting a +4dBu nominal signal. That’s not what you are feeding to it. By switching to “L” you will greatly increase the input sensitivity of the tape.

 

[Jzoha18]

Ummm…shouldn’t the input level switches SW201 be set to “L” for low level? By setting them to “H” the input amp is expecting a +4dBu nominal signal. That’s not what you are feeding to it. By switching to “L” you will greatly increase the input sensitivity of the tape.

Yea I switched it but unfortunately I'm still not really getting any real signal to the deck.