I ask for advice on the audio cable for the best connection between the instrument (CP88) and the sound card (Audient ID44 MKII)

[Ivas]

Hello everyone and welcome back! I just signed up to this wonderful forum because I noticed that there are many really expert users!I write from Italy, from Rome and I help myself via Google translator... Sorry for the mistakes please...
I have a Yamaha CP88 piano which, in addition to the classic jack audio outputs, also has Cannon XLR outputs. I need to connect it to the Audient ID44 MKII.

The question is this: initially I had connected the CP88 outputs via TS jack (therefore unbalanced) to the Audient. Unfortunately there was a lot of background noise, buzzes ecc. so I tried a balanced cable and the problem was solved.
Since the CP88 also has XLR outputs (in addition to those with TS jack) I would like to purchase the XLR audio cable that comes out of the CP88 and enters the Audient.
I would like to know if I can enter the Audient ID44 (since it has both XLR and TRS combo inputs) via XLR (as is done with microphones) or should I enter with a TRS jack.

Consequently: what is the best solution?

• - female XLR cable -> TRS (from CP88 to Audient)
• - XLR female cable -> XLR male (from CP88 to Audient)

Finally: if I connect everything via XLR -> XLR cable I was told that there is a danger of "saturating" the inputs.
Is this a danger to worry about or could I connect like that too?

I attach photos of the CP88 outputs and the Audient inputs and photos of the 2 cables to choose from

 

[ecc83]

Hello Ivas and welcome. As seems to be common for synths, Yamaha give no information that I can find for the signal level from the XLR outputs. I shall therefore assume they are at the very common 'instrument' level of -10dBV or 316mV. If we assume a maximum level 20dB above that (reasonable guess for 'headroom') that gives us about 3V or +10dBV or +12dBu. The mic inputs of the Audient have a max input of +18dBu so you 'should' be safe with XLR to XLR but saFER I think to go for XLR out to TRS since those balanced inputs have a 10dB pad and you should be able to get a good operating level.

With digital recording it is always best to err on the low side. Noise is rarely a problem but straying into converter overload cannot be fixed.

Dave.

 

[Ivas]

Thank you Dave! Very nice! If I use an XLR -> XLR cable, what problems might I have? (obviously used on Audient inputs 3 and 4, because inputs 1 and 2 are microphone).
It all started because the first connection made was with a TS cable (therefore unbalanced) from CP88 to Audient ID44.
I heard a lot of noise, buzzing, clipping etc. etc. I did the test with the first balanced cable he had and it all disappeared... While they had recommended a mass decoupler... instead I solved the problem by replacing the unbalanced cables with balanced cables.

 

[rob aylestone]

I've run it through Google and that says

Thank you Dave! Very nice! If I use an XLR -> XLR cable, what problems might I have? (obviously used on Audient inputs 3 and 4, because inputs 1 and 2 are microphone).
It all started because the first connection made was with a TS cable (therefore unbalanced) from CP88 to Audient ID44.
I heard a lot of noise, buzzing, clipping etc. etc. I did the test with the first balanced cable I had and it all disappeared... While they had recommended a mass decoupler... instead I solved the problem by replacing the unbalanced cables with balanced cables.


The problem Dave mentioned was level - if you keep the Yamaha lower than maximum and the gain on the interface lower, it should work - the danger is just distortion of the level of the keyboard overloads the input. won't hurt, but will sound rough. In fairness, one of that keboard's selling features is that on stage you just use mic cables to plug onto the stagebox.

 

[TAE]

Based on what I could find on the CP and the audient my advice would be go balanced xlr as opposed to unbalanced 1/4. You mention that you used 1/4" balanced cables and it stopped the noise...Not sure why that would make a difference because the 1/4 outs of the CP88 are unbalanced the xlr are balanced. Whenever you have the option to go balanced you should go balanced as it reduces possible noise. Being as the audient offers XLR I'd definitely go XLR to XLR as it insures the best signal you have available. The audient 1/4" inputs and the CP88 outputs are TS not TRS so using balanced 1/4" cables is a waste of time and money. That you eliminated the noise using balanced 1/4" doesn't make sense. Perhaps one of the 1/4" TS cables was bad On the XLR cables any name brand decent quality xlr cables will be just fine.

 

[Ivas]

Thanks guys, you were really valuable!

Yes, I confirm: the CP88 has 2 outputs (jack or cannon. I attach photos).
The first time I used unbalanced TS cables from the CP88's output jack to the Audient. There was a lot of noise, hiss, hum, clipping etc. Etc. Very bad...
Then I used the CP88's XLR output and connected the XLR to the Audient and all the noise disappeared!
TAE, maybe that's why I didn't have any more noises, because I changed the outputs used in the CP88. I left the TS outputs and tried with the XLRs (as you see in the photo).

I believe at this point (correct me if I'm wrong) that the best solution, in terms of quality, performance and best available signal is this:
XLR in CP88 output ---> XLR in channels 3 and 4 of the Audient ID44 MKII.

 

[ecc83]

I am pretty sure the line inputs on the Audient are TRS balanced? Yes, the kbd jack outs are unbalanced that is why I said use XLR to TRS balanced cables. Best option I see for a balanced feed at about the right operating level.

Do I understand that a TRS-TRS cable gave noise free results? That is not surprising since an unbalanced source feeding a balanced input sometimes works out OK.

The comment " keyboard XLRs are convenient for live use as they will go directly into a common stage box" makes me pause. Are the XLRs perhaps at microphone level? Effectively being a 'DI' box? Makes a good deal of sense. I do wish firms would put numbers to their specifications! Actually a look at the full handbook might give a clue?

Nope! The book shows the XLRs feeding a mixer but no clue as to which inputs or level!

Dave.

 

[Ivas]

Nelle informazioni Audient c'è scritto così:
Impedenza di ingresso (microfono): 3k Ω bilanciato
Impedenza di ingresso (Linea): 10k Ω bilanciata

Which translates (I think) as:
In the Audient information it says like this:
Input impedance (microphone): 3k Ω balanced
Input impedance (Line): 10k Ω balanced

 

[rob aylestone]

Ivas - please, we're an English speaking forum as we have members from so many countries - I translated the earlier post, and this one - but please can you post in English.

 

[Ivas]

Hi Rob. Sure! I noticed it this afternoon and I did the translation... Maybe I missed something... Sorry... Already in the first post I wrote that I help myself via Google translator and to apologize for the errors.
Maybe I copied and pasted them wrong a few times, but today I corrected them...
Sorry again...

 

[rob aylestone]

No bother. I think you just need to try a couple of XLR cables and see if it works for you. The theatre I run often have these in the bands and they ALL use the XLRs, and engage the pad on the mixers - so the same should be true for you.

 

[Ivas]

As promised the day after the post! In recent days I have done various cross tests following your precious advice.
First I recorded the noise/hum/click etc. which started the problem (I'll put the link at the end).
Initially I used unbalanced cables, then after your advice I connected the balanced ones and the noise disappeared!
Just one more note: when holding the cables from the CP88 to the Audient, this noise is actually present! But as if by magic when I turn on the CP88 this annoyance disappears (instead with unbalanced cables it was always present even when I turned on the CP88).
I still solved the problem with balanced cables, but according to your experience and expertise, why does the noise remain with the CP88 turned off (but with the balanced XLR cables inserted) and when I turn it on it disappears?
Here is the audio link (obviously I maximized the input gain to make it heard as much as possible):

 

[rob aylestone]

many output devices only provide audio paths when powered up. Your issues are induced noise - the source is unknown, but the intermittent fizzing sound suggests something local - even a power supply or some item shifting data around. Power things up and impedances change, and become loads, providing paths down to ground through the electronics, I have a very similar noise when I switch computer 2 off - it has a cable leading to my audio interface, and with the PC on, all is silent. With it off - I get the data type noise, which is coming from a NAS drive. With the computer on, it's noise get removed.

 

[ecc83]

The output of an op amp will be an electrolytic cap of 10 to 22uF and then there SHOULD be a 'tie down' resistor of anything from 10k to 100K followed by a series stabilizing R, usually around 100 Ohms. When the op amp is off it is effectively open circuit and thus the output is equal to the tie down R (if fitted!) That can cause noise. Also a singe ended "impedance" balanced output ain't if not on!

Dave.