Otari Mx5050BQii 4 channel deck XLR to RCA problem :SOLVED:
- Thread starter Jzoha18
- Start date
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Waaaaait…backup…you’re using the insert points on the Mackie? So you have the TS adapter plugged into the first click to use the insert point as a direct out, and that’s connected to the mono price XLR - RCA cable to the input of the Otari?
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
And no, red wire to pin 2 is not ground. Pin 1 is ground, pin 2, according to your meter reading is not connected at the other end, pin 3 is signal.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Let’s try to solve one thing at a time. There’s a difference between phase and polarity and it would help if you provided some specific reference to what it is you read.
yes its a TS plug>RCA on a channel access jack with an XLR on the other end
its this cable with a RCA to TS adapter if im not making sense
Monoprice 6ft Premier Series XLR Male to RCA Male Cable, 16AWG (Gold Plated) - Monoprice.com
An XLR to RCA cable converts a balanced audio signal into an unbalanced signal. This is good for sending audio signals from an XLR source to an RCA input, or vice versa. Regardless of direction, the r
www.monoprice.com
Looks like we figured out the config on the otari. sorry i am being such a headache. do you think perhaps i should swap pins on one of the XLR inputs and see what happens?
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
No. Last thing you want to do when you’re having trouble figuring things out is take shots in the dark hoping it will work. And we already figured out the configuration with your meter. That’s why we went through all that…your meter told us pin 2 n/c (not connected), pin 3 signal. So unbalanced pin 3 hot. Pulling the jack only tells us three wires are connected.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
So, #1, answer this question: are you inserting the TS - RCA adapter into the channel access jack all the way, or only to the first click?
And #2 remind me what you learned when you probed the monoprice cable to determine what pin of the XLR jack the pin of the RCA plug is connected?
[EDIT]
Okay…dude! I figured you already knew or checked into the pin out of the monoprice cable…look at the description of the cable you bought on the website…it says “This cable uses the standard pinout with pins 1 and 3 of the XLR connector wired to the shield of the RCA plug and pin 2 of the XLR connector wired to the tip of the RCA plug.”
So think about that for a minute, and what your meter told you the pinout configuration of the Otari is, and there’s your answer about why it isn’t working.
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The TS is inserted on first click and its a setup that works with all my other multitrack decks. so the cable is incompatible with the deck as its configured? if i simply switched the decks pinout would the monorpice cables work? based on what you saw?
Yea the pinout is swapped so the ground of the otari is feeding the tip of the rca and ts and thats why its defeating the signal on the mixer correct?
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Kind of. There’s no pinout swap going on here. The monoprice cable shunts the signal to ground. It doesn’t mean it’s a stupid cable. The cable is configured one of the typical ways a cable like that (that connects a balanced device to an unbalanced device) is configured. And the Otari is configured in one of two common configurations for balanced XLR I/O.
Here’s what’s happening:
There are two common balanced XLR pinouts:
pin 1 ground
pin 2 inverted phase signal
pin 3 normal phase signal
That one ^^^ is “pin 3 hot”. it is less common, but common enough in older gear you have to watch for it.
Then there is the most common configuration:
pin 1 ground
pin 2 normal phase signal
pin 3 inverted phase signal
…”pin 2 hot”
So your Otari is pin 3 hot, and *also* doesn’t have the signal balancing kit installed so pin 2 is not connected, at least according to your measurements.
So you’ve got:
pin 1 ground
pin 2 n/c (not connected)
pin 3 signal
Now let’s look at your cable. It’s configured assuming pin 2 of the XLR is hot, and so pin 1 and pin 3 of the XLR end are strapped together and connected to the shield of he RCA plug, while pin 2 carries the signal to the pin of the RCA plug, and ultimately the “tip” of your TS adapter; all good, except that with your Otari pinout, pin 2 is not connected, so your cable carries no signal to the RCA pin, and furthermore your signal is on pin 3 which is connected to what? Pin 1 in the cable, ground…the signal is “shunted” to ground. Double jeopardy. So you can either buy an XLR - XLR adapter that swaps pins 2 & 3 of the XLR, or do it at the Otari jacks and swap the connections at pins 2 & 3, and it should work.
You can test all this if you have some hookup wire and a TS -TS cable…cut two lengths of wire, strip the ends, shove the end of one wire into the pin 1 socket of an XLR input jack on the Otari, and wrap the other end around the shield portion of the TS plug, shove the other wire into the pin 3 socket of the same XLR input jack and wrap the other end of that wire around the tip of the TS plug, and then plug the other end of the TS - TS cable into the ACCESS jack of your Mackie. Signal should pass.
i
www.sweetwater.com
should mention that the otari is using unbalanced XLR and the manual makes descriptions of jumpering pin 2 to pin 1 if that matters. i would rather just modify the otari so if a cable goes dead on me i dont have to build one and i think its smarter and easier labor than building or modifying cables. i tried the hosa phase reverser adpater but it didnt work. im assuming because its primarily designed for phase reversal? thats what it says its for. its this one. why do you think it didnt work?
Hosa GXX-195 Polarity Cross Pinout Phase Reverser XLR Adapter
XLRM - XLRF Cross Polarity Adapter
www.sweetwater.com
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Right. Otari wants you to strap pin 2 to pin 1 in your cable so you don’t have this unterminated antenna (essentially) in your cable. Remember they are directing you to do this based on a pin 3 hot system. If it was a pin 2 hot system the you’d be strapping pins 1 & 3. Now look again at the detailed information on monoprice regarding your cable you bought. Yes, that’s right, they e already done it for you, pins 1 & 3 are connected. So there’s nothing to do there if you convert the Otari to pin 2 hot.
Now here’s where I get confused again. So you did try the phase reversal adapter and it didn’t work, huh? First of all, get comfortable with this: reversing pins 2 & 3 is reversing the phase. That’s what you are doing, if it is a balanced circuit. Yours is not, at least as far as we know. So by reversing pins 2 & 3 you are just moving your signal conductor from pin 3 to pin 2 where you need it. So if the adapter reverses pins 2 & 3, that should work. Why I doesn’t I don’t know. I wanted to verify that what it does is reverse pins 2 & 3 but there was nothing Sweetwater confirming that. Maybe you should set your meter to ohms again and verify what pins connect to what pins from one end to the next. It should be this
pin 1 to pin 1
pin 2 to pin 3
pin 3 to pin 2
So check that out, and you also may want to try my suggestion with the hookup wire. Not eloquent but would rule out a bigger problem with the system.
Now here’s where I get confused again. So you did try the phase reversal adapter and it didn’t work, huh? First of all, get comfortable with this: reversing pins 2 & 3 is reversing the phase. That’s what you are doing, if it is a balanced circuit. Yours is not, at least as far as we know. So by reversing pins 2 & 3 you are just moving your signal conductor from pin 3 to pin 2 where you need it. So if the adapter reverses pins 2 & 3, that should work. Why I doesn’t I don’t know. I wanted to verify that what it does is reverse pins 2 & 3 but there was nothing Sweetwater confirming that. Maybe you should set your meter to ohms again and verify what pins connect to what pins from one end to the next. It should be this
pin 1 to pin 1
pin 2 to pin 3
pin 3 to pin 2
So check that out, and you also may want to try my suggestion with the hookup wire. Not eloquent but would rule out a bigger problem with the system.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
So the MX-5050BII manual I have indicates your inputs and outputs on the Otari are balanced. So I’m not sure what to make of your meter measurements that indicate pin 2 of the XLR is not connected.
I think you need to do the hookup wire test to check out what’s happening with pin 2 and pin 3.
I think you need to do the hookup wire test to check out what’s happening with pin 2 and pin 3.
rob aylestone
Moderator
This topic has to be the one where we give Sweetbeats a medal.
When I was a teenager, and green, I discovered a great way of bodging things. Half insert inserts are ALWAYS trouble. You mentioned that you can solder a bit, so the really simple was to sort this out is to sacrifice a couple of plugs and a bit of cable. Grab an old unused XLR cable and shove the connector into the Otari. Snip it a couple of feet out and tease out the two conductors and the screen - so you have three possible circuits. Do the same with a ¼" jack, with 3 circuits - the usual insert/headphone type plug. Shove that into the insert socket. Snip that one to reveal two conductors and the screen. Grab the other cable and join the screens up - just twist them together. Turn the volume up on the mixer channel you are using and with a bit of inner bared back and exposed, touch each of the two conductors, one at a time. One will go BUZZ, and click a bit when you touch it. THAT is the input conductor. Go to the Otari and get it playing. Touch either of it's two conductors to the one you identified as working input. One will make music, one won't If neither do then nothing is coming out of the Otari. When you find the one that works (50% chance you always pick the wrong one first), solder it for permanency with the ground. Tape and tidy up. If you cannot solder, then those little screw terminals will do the job. Just insulate and tape. Job done. That lead becomes your purpose wired Atari to mixer insert cable.
So much of your problem is not being comfy with the meter. Note what it displays with no connection, then touch the probes together and note how it displays a short. Those two things are all you need to identify short circuits and open circuits. Your readings suggest slightly tarnished probes and not enough pressure. Reading should be stable, not change.
The finger buzz test is the most useful thing in troubleshooting inputs that might or might not be working.
When I was a teenager, and green, I discovered a great way of bodging things. Half insert inserts are ALWAYS trouble. You mentioned that you can solder a bit, so the really simple was to sort this out is to sacrifice a couple of plugs and a bit of cable. Grab an old unused XLR cable and shove the connector into the Otari. Snip it a couple of feet out and tease out the two conductors and the screen - so you have three possible circuits. Do the same with a ¼" jack, with 3 circuits - the usual insert/headphone type plug. Shove that into the insert socket. Snip that one to reveal two conductors and the screen. Grab the other cable and join the screens up - just twist them together. Turn the volume up on the mixer channel you are using and with a bit of inner bared back and exposed, touch each of the two conductors, one at a time. One will go BUZZ, and click a bit when you touch it. THAT is the input conductor. Go to the Otari and get it playing. Touch either of it's two conductors to the one you identified as working input. One will make music, one won't If neither do then nothing is coming out of the Otari. When you find the one that works (50% chance you always pick the wrong one first), solder it for permanency with the ground. Tape and tidy up. If you cannot solder, then those little screw terminals will do the job. Just insulate and tape. Job done. That lead becomes your purpose wired Atari to mixer insert cable.
So much of your problem is not being comfy with the meter. Note what it displays with no connection, then touch the probes together and note how it displays a short. Those two things are all you need to identify short circuits and open circuits. Your readings suggest slightly tarnished probes and not enough pressure. Reading should be stable, not change.
The finger buzz test is the most useful thing in troubleshooting inputs that might or might not be working.
my deck is a mx5050bqii which is a different model then the Bii and the manual for it says unbalanced. Ill re paste what the manual says below
Line input (female) and line output (male) connectors are XLR-type connectors. To wire the mating plugs, refer to Figure 2-5 and proceed as follows. LINE INPUT CONNECTOR WIRING: For unbalanced inputs using two-conductor shielded cable, wire the male XLR-connector as follows: 1. Connect the signal leads of a cable to pin 3 (high) and pin 2 (low) of the connector. 2. Connect the cable shield to pin 1 of the connector. 3. Connect a jumper from pin 1 to pin 2 of the connector. 2-6 For unbalanced inputs using single-conductor shielded cable, wire the male XLR connector as follows: 1. Connect the center conductor of the single-conductor shielded cable to pin 3 of the connector. 2. Connect the cable shield to pins 1 and 2. LINE OUTPUT CONNECTOR WIRING For unbalanced outputs using two-conductor shielded cable, wire the female XLRconnector as follows: 1. Connect the signal leads of the cable to pin 3 (high) and pin 2 (low) of the connector. 2. Connect the cable shield to pin 1 of the connector. 3. Connect a jumper from pin 1 to pin 2 of the connector. For unbalanced outputs using single-conductor shielded cable, wire the female XLR-type connector as follows: 1. Connect the center conductor cable to pin 3 of the connector. 2. Connect the cable shield to pin 2 of the connector. 3. Connect a jumper between pins 1 and 2 of the connector.
id also like to thank you for helping me trouble shoot this so far!
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Sure thing.
So where are we at?
And thanks for the clarification regarding the model. I wasn’t sure.
So where are we at?
And thanks for the clarification regarding the model. I wasn’t sure.