Need help onthis scale

[Jouni]

while at it...

what the heck is the "honkytonk"-scale?
..its like playing a blues-scale from bG when the chord is A??

..at least R.Stones's "honky-tonk woman" uses it, prolly a million others, but the point is that its a regular blues-scale, just played three frets too low?..
What sick b*stard comes up with that??.. someone with a stetson pulled to his shoulders?

My cousin showed me that when we were kids and I've never ceased to hate him for it!!
I can never compose metal because some strayed finger always taps to that!!

 

[metalhead28]

I've never heard of the "Honky Tonk" scale, but what you're describing sounds like simply playing in the relative minor key.

If you're in A major and you're playing A Ionian (the major scale) all of the notes from the minor scale of the note three frets lower are also included in that scale. That is the relative minor of A. So if you were playing a minor scale in that position you are in fact playing the Aeolian mode derived from the A major scale.

I suppose a condensed version would be playing a pentatonic scale (or blues scale) from a minor third lower or a major sixth higher from your key. I guess that's where the "Honky Tonk" moniker came from.

If your key is A minor, you would more than likely be playing in the Aeolian mode already (minor scale) therefore the same trick of shifting down 3 frets won't work...but you can shift up 3 frets and play the major scale. That would be the relative major. Make sense?

 

[ScreamingHead69]

I love how my simple "did I find all the right notes" inquiry has turned into some huge nitpicking disscussion on what to call it (so I guess I did get it right), and arguments os to whither it's worth thinking about or not .

 

[IronFlippy]

EVERYONE'S WRONG! Those notes aren't a scale!

























j/k

To me, that's a natural minor scale with the 6th missing and an extra note added between the 4th and 5th (a diminished 5th). If you were to take the 2nd out, it would be the common "Blues" scale, which is your minor pentatonic with the "blue" note added (the diminished 5th). It's what I like to call music

 

[Jouni]

...think metalhead is right about the aeolian, the scale is played in major, hence the happyhappy-joyjoy feel.

 

[foo]

No it's not. Read the thread.

A Bb maj scale from G to G would be:

3-5 (F-G)
3-5-6 (C-D-Eb)
3-5-6 (G-A-Bb)

I agree about not getting too caught up in theory, worry about if it sounds good.

IMO however, someone is only a 'theory nazi" if they put theory knowledge before making good music. Knowing everything you can about making music only gives you more tools. Why wouldn't you want to know everything you could about the "how's and why's" of music? Does anyone honestly think that knowing their chords and scales will somehow hold them back? More commonly, that attitude is used as an excuse from people who have not taken the time to learn what they should know.

(And FWIW, IMO, etc, this is seriously basic stuff. If this is over your head, you may wish to rethink using phrases like "theory nazi's"). Peace.

Well, it's not over my head. (I'm assuming you're addressing me . . .) Please take another look at what was posted, and you'll see that the E string lists 3, 5 and 6 (which is G, A and Bb as you correctly state) the A lists 3, 5 and 6 (which is C, D and Eb) and the D which lists 3 and 5 (which is F and G).
So we don't disagree ... do we?

I don't for a second believe that theory holds you back - the poster is obviously a very inexperienced player and is looking for help and I believe getting too caught up in the theory is a classic mistake that many beginning players make (except those who want to be in a John Williams master class in a few years) because the theory nazis would have them believe that they need to know all that stuff to play musically. Which they don't. That's not to say that they shouldn't study as much as they can if they have an interest in making a career playing guitar (as I did).
So after I graduated from school I went on the road playing for a living - and ran into some great players who didn't know an Ab7 arpeggio from a Honda Civic - and could play and play and play.

The theory nazis are those who take the position that theory is the only thing that counts and if you don't know why that Ab7 arpeggio sounds good over a Dm chord and resolves nicely into the CM then you can't possibly be able to play - and that just ain't so. THe only thing that counts is that you can create the sound - it doesn't matter if you know why it sounds good, if you can make it sound good.

 

[Gnash5150]

All you need to know is that people, in the lame past, were not allowed to play those three notes together. It is the "devil's scale!"

 

[leddy]

Well, it's not over my head. (I'm assuming you're addressing me . . .) Please take another look at what was posted, and you'll see that the E string lists 3, 5 and 6 (which is G, A and Bb as you correctly state) the A lists 3, 5 and 6 (which is C, D and Eb) and the D which lists 3 and 5 (which is F and G).
So we don't disagree ... do we?

Here's what screaminghead posted. It appears you may have misread it (look at the A string), which is why I thought you did not know what it was.

D-------------3-5----
A-------3-4-5--------
E-3-5-6--------------

Sorry if I offended you. From my perspective, I saw someone who I thought could not identify the notes from a major scale, but threw out phrases like "theory nazi", which led me to make some assumptions...

I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings here, I just wanted to make sure the correct info was laid out.

 

[ScreamingHead69]

the poster is obviously a very inexperienced player and is looking for help and I believe getting too caught up in the theory is a classic mistake that many beginning players make

Woah there buddy! For the record, I'm anything but inexperianced! I've been a die hard metal bassist (that's right, bassist, not just a kid trying to learn his first Nirvana lick) for about five years, and I've been playing guitar for three or four, but I don't take guitar as seriously as I do my bass playing. I can see where I may be mistaken for a newbie because there's still plenty I don't know, lke how to build a scale out of three notes, which is somthing I think about often because I like to know where such great ideas come from!

Secondly, music has to be the only thing in the world you can study, where you're teachers can answer simple questions with long winded answers, get into arguments about their answers, and then swear up and down that studying these questions is a waste of time. Has anybody else picked up on that? Just seems funny to me!

 

[ScreamingHead69]

All you need to know is that people, in the lame past, were not allowed to play those three notes together. It is the "devil's scale!"

And I can't believe only one person has picked up on that fact!

 

[leddy]

Secondly, music has to be the only thing in the world you can study, where you're teachers can answer simple questions with long winded answers, get into arguments about their answers, and then swear up and down that studying these questions is a waste of time. Has anybody else picked up on that? Just seems funny to me!

Not exactly sure of what you are trying to say, but I would not look at an internet forum as your teacher. I did not want to respond here for fear of coming accross as egotistical, but it almost seems like you are taking a shot at people who tried to help you. The answer to your question was not long-winded. Correcting the flurry of misinformation may have seemed long-winded if it was new material to you. FWIW, I've been getting paid to play and teach for almost 20 years. When you ask a question, do you want the correct answer, or do you want a bunch of wrong information that makes the truth harder to understand?

If it's really important to you to play well, do yourself a favor and get a good private teacher.

 

[ScreamingHead69]

Not exactly sure of what you are trying to say, but I would not look at an internet forum as your teacher. I did not want to respond here for fear of coming accross as egotistical, but it almost seems like you are taking a shot at people who tried to help you. The answer to your question was not long-winded. Correcting the flurry of misinformation may have seemed long-winded if it was new material to you. FWIW, I've been getting paid to play and teach for almost 20 years. When you ask a question, do you want the correct answer, or do you want a bunch of wrong information that makes the truth harder to understand?

If it's really important to you to play well, do yourself a favor and get a good private teacher.

No dude, I'm totally not tryin to slam anybody (aside from feeling the need to point out that I'm not an amature, but that's just my own big headedness that you can ignore), I'm actually VERY greatful for all the knowlage that everyone has poured onto my little scale quandry. And I'm not just talking about message board banter. I just always have myself a chuckel whenever I get into disscussions about theory. It always follows the same pattern of defferent people arguing over the differant ways to answer the same question, and then the ultimate discussion of whither it's importaint to look that deeply into it or not.

Common, we all do it, it's funny!

 

[leddy]

No dude, I'm totally not tryin to slam anybody (aside from feeling the need to point out that I'm not an amature, but that's just my own big headedness that you can ignore), I'm actually VERY greatful for all the knowlage that everyone has poured onto my little scale quandry. And I'm not just talking about message board banter. I just always have myself a chuckel whenever I get into disscussions about theory. It always follows the same pattern of defferent people arguing over the differant ways to answer the same question, and then the ultimate discussion of whither it's importaint to look that deeply into it or not.

Common, we all do it, it's funny!

It's all good. I do know what you mean - I've wasted way too much time discussing politics in the cave...

 

[foo]

Woah there buddy! For the record, I'm anything but inexperianced! I've been a die hard metal bassist (that's right, bassist, not just a kid trying to learn his first Nirvana lick) for about five years, and I've been playing guitar for three or four, but I don't take guitar as seriously as I do my bass playing.
. . .
Secondly, music has to be the only thing in the world you can study, where you're teachers can answer simple questions with long winded answers, get into arguments about their answers, and then swear up and down that studying these questions is a waste of time. Has anybody else picked up on that? Just seems funny to me!

That's really true - and really funny.

You're right - I guess to me (40 years of playing, some professionally) you seemed very inexperienced to have posted what you did. No offence was intended - it's all about perspective.

. . . and to leddy - yes - I mis-read the original post. No offence was taken, wish I'd had HR as a resource when I was learning to play.