My thoughts on the RNP

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dot
  • Start date Start date
it all boils down to one thing, and unfortunately its the ignorant consumer who gets burned.

The audio mags are trying to make money selling advertisements.
The "pros" are talking up products all in an effort to help their friends make money.

Everybody is trying to make money. The sooner consumers understand this, the sooner they'll understand that their is a lot of overpriced, overtalked crap out there, and the sooner they can get back to their instruments and start making real music.
 
CyanJaguar said:
it all boils down to one thing, and unfortunately its the ignorant consumer who gets burned.

The audio mags are trying to make money selling advertisements.
The "pros" are talking up products all in an effort to help their friends make money.

Everybody is trying to make money. The sooner consumers understand this, the sooner they'll understand that their is a lot of overpriced, overtalked crap out there, and the sooner they can get back to their instruments and start making real music.
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Actually, Cyan, you're way off base on some of what you think it all boils down to. I don't work for an "audio mag". I can write whatever I want. There is not one penney of manufacturer's advertising that influences what I write. Actually, you're lucky to have people like me and Harvey around, because we don't work for anyone but ourselves.

True, the "audio mags are trying to make money selling advertisements" - but that's not at all the case in this or any other BBS forum where people can communicate with others and express their opinions - and that has absolutely no affect on me. In fact, that's why I don't write for them.

The consumer is actually in a GREAT place right now - and there is a lot of amazing gear available for dirt cheap. I come from an age when even an Otari MTR-90 2" 24-track machine was $95,000.

It's a wimpy and unexamined stance to just assume someone is on the take. People like me and Harvey actually inform the consumer - through real, actual experience with the gear we're talking about. I see so many recommendations for gear in these forums by people who either haven't tried it themselves or only have limited experience...i.e. they recommend what they've bought because that's all they know.

Here. Now. In my possession. I have every mic made by companies like AKG, Røde, MXL, Red5 Audio. Not some. Every one of them. And there's a hell of a lot more gear on the way. I probably have the single largest collection of new hot mic pres right here - that I actually use. You - and some others - might be suprised that there are some of us who do this for the love of it. What I get in return is that I continue learning. I had over $500 just in phone bills last month from talking with manufacturers and rounding up gear for The Listening Sessions. All these sessions that are available for free on MP3 represent thousands of dollars worth of studio time and hundreds of hours of my own time and money out of my pocket. Maybe we'll make a few bucks on the CD's when they come out. Maybe not. I'll still continue doing The Listening Sessions either way.

Actually, my "niche" in all this is to inform the consumer from a totally independent position. Why should that be so hard to believe? From my end 90% of what I do is a total blast. I feel lucky as hell to be able to do this.

I think - because of the net and forums like this - that the consumer is actually more informed than ever before.

Here's some of the gear that I regularly recommend:

A Designs MP-1 tube pre
API pres
AKG 414 B-ULS
AKG 414 TLII
AKG 451B
AKG K240's
AKG K141's
AKG D112
Behringer ECM8000
Behringer Ultragain Pro MIC2200
Blue Blueberry
Crane Song Trakker
Extreme Isolation Headphones
EV RE20, RE27
FMR Audio RNC
Grace 101
Great River MP-2NV
Great River MP-1NV
John Hardy M-1
M-Audio Tampa
Millennia M-2B
Millennia HV-3D
MXL 603S
Oktava MC012
Phoenix Audio DRS-2
Red 5 Audio RVD1
RADAR by iZ
Soundelux U195
Shure SM57
Studio Projects C1
Studio Projects B1
Studio Projects VTB-1
Vintech Dual 72

The only pattern I see there is that it's all the best gear, IMO, in its class.

_____________

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions
 
non-pro opinion

I own a FMR RNP. It's noisier than my other pres. For acoustic guitar, it flat out sucks. I suspect it would perform similarly on most small diaphram condenser recording applications, where noise is a factor. As a bass guitar DI, it's not the greatest. The 6db gain steps are ridiculous...

...but it's transcendent for certain things. It's tight, focused, and "whole-sounding" on certain vocal mics, and very good on guitar amps mic'ed with different dynamics.

Is it the best pre in the world? Probably not. Is it the best one I've used? No. Does it solve every tracking situation? Hell no. Am I selling it anytime soon? Hell no.

And you know what? THE FUCKING BOX IS METAL, NOT PLASTIC.


c
 
guess what, dot? If you are writing for a mag, and your mag does not take advertising money, then my post does not refer to you and should not concern you. Simple.

If you dont believe that there is a lot of talkup so that pros friends can make money off their products, then get out now.

The audio business is dirty. I mean bad dirty, and the only person who will survive is the person who can write wildcards, not the person who gets swayed by stupid obsequious reviews or new product hype. (again, if you dont write obsequious reviews then I am not refering to you).

Finally, were you the guy that was recommending the c1? against what world standard of excellence? if you were that guy, when was the last time you got your ears checked?
 
I'll bet when Harvey was younger he wouldnt hesitate to put his knees on someone shoulders and just crack the fuck outta them.
:)
He kicks ass. If he does run it over, that'll be the funniest shit ever.

My only problem with Dot right now at this second is that he is talking up shit thats not released yet, and thats a no-no to me, even though I was waiting on the RNP for a year, just cause I KNEW somehow it would be bombly.

I actually did go pick mine up earlier yesterday, and was like, "damn, I guess it IS plastic, hmmm" even though I thought it had a metal feel and the bottom was obviously thick aluminum.

Harvey-da-man!
 
CyanJaguar said:

Finally, were you the guy that was recommending the c1? against what world standard of excellence? if you were that guy, when was the last time you got your ears checked?
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Yeh, I'll take some credit for starting the C1 wildfire on the net. I'll also take some credit for all the B1's people are starting to buy - because they really weren't moving until I got some review loaners and started posting about how good they were. I was as surprised as anyone. I'll take some credit for turning people on to the VTB-1 as well.

Some other new products you're going to start hearing a lot more about are the Red5 Audio RVD1 kick mic and the RV8 and RV10 large condensers. These mics are testing out great. Another one is the A Designs MP-1 tube preamp. All tube for $899. A monster unit. I'm also exposing more people to the John Hardy M-1 mic pre - @ $950 its the single best pre under $1K - and flat-out just one of the best all-around pres in the world, IMO. I'm also turning people on to Extreme Isolation Headphones. I lined up Steve from Mojo Pie w/ the makers of the headphones and Steve emailed me last night saying, "In a way, the headphones are the most impressive product I've looked at for review."

Fact is, for every one guy I've got jumpin' on my shit [ and these are ALWAYS the guys who haven't actually tried the gear in question ], there's hundreds of people stoked and thanking me for turning them on to such great products.

I can live with that. : )
 
c7, I haven't tried any Davisound products yet. They're like an hours drive from here, and I want to go pay Hayne a visit.
 
"Finally, were you the guy that was recommending the c1? against what world standard of excellence? if you were that guy, when was the last time you got your ears checked?"

In case you haven't noticed, He's to busy patting himself on the back to get his ears checked. LOL

DOT writes: "Actually, you're lucky to have people like me and Harvey around, because we don't work for anyone but ourselves."

your absolutely right, we are lucky, that's why an unbiased review is the way to go, without trashing the product.
just my opinion.
 
Finally, I got Mark to send me one of his old RNCs that has enough cosmetically wrong from travelling all over to not be able to sell, even as B stock. I have a gravel driveway, and I'm gonna drive my fuckin' car over the damn thing, just to see how strong it really is. I'll make sure and take lots of pictures.
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Harvey rules!!!

This thread has become my new substitute for the aborted Mixerman diaries.

BTW: Some people on this board reommended the SP B1 before Dot, I know did, but I know I wasn't the only one.
 
We are lucky. As an older fart newbie, I don't have a lot of experience with high end equipment, but I have expensive tastes. I like quality. Unfortunately, I have to live within certain limits. That means, I'm a bargain hunter. I must get the most useable bang for the buck, without really having a chance to use the gear first. I depend on people like Dot and Harvey and other average users like me to give good objective reviews and opinions. Yeah, I have to sort through it, find the biases and the people whose tastes are closer to mine, but this is one of my best resources. Thank you.

So, 2 perspectives on this post. First, too many times I read reviews where egos and headtrips get in the way of useful knowledge. So many times through this post you guys have kept pulling it back into the positive productive realm. I appreciate that. Second..well second gets it's own paragraph.

I buy based upon several criteria:

1. How does it sound?
2. Can I buy it without my wife killing me? She doesn't divorce, she shoots!
3. Can I understand how to use it?
4. Will it last?
5. Will it hold value for a trade up?
6. If it breaks, who's gonna fix it?

Applied to the RNP:

I was less impressed with the sound of the RNP in clips I've heard. I still bought it. I'm using DMP3's and Joemeek stuff and the RNP seemed to have a place. Sure enough, I've found it very usefull and getting certain things to sit in the mix. It adds texture and flavor. Things like, double micing the kick and the snare, one with the DMP3 and one with the RNP. Cut to the vibe of the moment. Just like certain mic's like certain voices, I've found the RNP suits some voices over others. Its nice for harmonies that need to sit back in the mix and blend.

2. This was the upper limit of my budget and I really needed 2 pre's to be useful with what I'm doing. I'm posting, so my wife didn't kill me yet.

3. Very easy to understand, although the 6db gain staging is not. I'm trying not to use my Korg pre's and the RNP keeps pushing me back to them to lift my input level. Kinda defeats the purpose. I would have paid the extra bucks.

4. I baby my equipment. Although the plastic appearance doesn't inspire confidence, its the same as the RNC and I haven't heard many complaints about the RNC.

5. Only time will tell. I think there will be plenty of RNP fans out there for a year or two. At the rate lower budget units are coming out, I'm not sure how well any of my stuff will hold up in value.

6. For this, I rely on you guys. I read several posts of people with minor glitches and FMR replaced the unit promptly. Early marketing hype or not, it was encouraging and part of why I bought it.

In balance, the RNP was a very nice addition to this newbie's arsenal. If I'd had the budget, these would be Great Rivers. I love that sound! Hey, I can dream.

Thanks again guys.
 
Dot said:
Harvey, thanks for finding out some info about the materials. From your findings, that confirms that the surface of the front and back panels are plastic.

How is that "all metal"?
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That was the funniest comment so far this week. You are even funnier than the guy on a Swedish forum that persist in claiming that even digital copying always have errors. :)
 
Re: non-pro opinion

participant said:
The 6db gain steps are ridiculous...
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There are two reasons for doing this. Reason one, which always applies, is that if these steps are trimmed, you can make sure that the gain is exact on several channels. This is very nice when doing stereo recordings. Of course, it would then be possible with 3db or 1db steps but that is obviously a question of cost.
For stereo preamps a link-button could do the trick also, but this way you can get exactly the same amplification over more channels if necessary.

The second reason is that to achieve optimum performance on an amplifier over the whole amplification range, it is sometimes necessary to change more than one parameter. Obviously this depends on the amplification design, but when the amplifier is done that way, the only solution really is to have a steped gain, where the switch handles all parameters simultaneously.

I don't know if this second reason applies for the RNP, but if it does, it's yet again another display of FMR's choice to put sound in the first place, and make something that sounds as good as possible for $500, instead of making something that looks like $500 and sound like $400.
 
Dot said:
I'll take credit for...

I'll also take credit for...

I'll take credit for...

I'm also exposing more people to...

I'm also turning people on to...

...there's hundreds of people stoked and thanking me...
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Thank God for Dot. Where would the industry be without you?

LOL!

:rolleyes:
 
Dot said:
Actually, you're lucky to have people like me and Harvey around...
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Don't even think about putting yourself in the same category as Harvey, Dot. Harvey is balanced, honest, observant, informed and humble. You are none of the above.
 
Rossi said:

This thread has become my new substitute for the aborted Mixerman diaries.
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Stay tuned, it's going to get better as I test these units for RF shielding this weekend. lol.
 
This whole thread is a fascinating example of contrasting styles of communication and interaction, and how that affects other people's perceptions. While Dot may be one of the prime examples of the following points, this is not directed at him personally, but rather an attempt to make general observations about human interaction.

One of the ironic trusims, is that social and cultural forces tend to make us react in ways that often give results counter to our best interests. For example, once we state or write something we believe to be true, we are much more likely to have an automatic response to attempt to defend it, even in light of new evidence that contradicts our original point. The irony is, that if we never verbalize our opinion we feel no such compulsion. Another irony is that we perceive any attempt to correct our misperceptions as an attack on our self-worth or expertise, and go to all kinds of convoluted lengths to justify our original (and incorrect) statements. (This seems to be often a sex-linked trait applicable especially to the male of the species).

EXAMPLE A:

Person 1: (speaks aloud): "Oakland is a far superior football team. They are better coached, have better personel, and will kick Tampa Bay's ass."

Person 2 (after game): "What about that game?"

Person 1: "It was unbelievable! The ref's sucked. If it wasn't for their center flipping out and missing the game they would have won. Plus, if they play that game ten times, Oakland would win 9 out of 10!"

EXAMPLE B:

Person 1: (thinks to himself): "Oakland is a far superior football team. They are better coached, have better personel, and will kick Tampa Bay's ass."

Person 2 (after game): "What about that game?"

Person 1: Yeah, Tampa really kicked ass.


The final irony is that we end up accomplishing the opposite of our objective. By mindlessly defending our errors, we lose respect of others. Those of us enlightened enough to accept in good humor the corrections of others, in contrast, gain almost uiniversal respect for their honesty and humility.

That Harvey, in this particular case, was gracious enough to respond with: "I'll just pretend you didn't say that..." is a lesson to all of us in how to react graciously while giving others a chance to save some face.

There are many here who are particularly gracious and generous about admitting their errors. Ironically, again, these are some of the most knowledgeable people on the board. And not coincidentally, they are the most respected. We can all learn a lesson from them.
 
Littledog--

I never imagined you student of communication. You've made some good points about how credibility is perceived.

Steve, Mojo Pie
www.piemusic.com
 
littledog,

excellent post. You made a good point about people being defensive about opinions.

I think that man is defensive about his opinion because he put(or should have put)some thought into it.

in a program I did, 10 out of 50 people voted for oakland, and it was because they had put some thought into it. THey looked at performance, and stats and all of that before coming to the decision that oakland would win. The fact that tampa won is a testament to the uncertainty of competition, not a disclaim to possibly well founded opinions that oakland was the superior team.
 
Dot,

I still say you should have your hearing checked.

If it checks out Ok, then you should probably have your motives examined.

that or go to another testing center. jk
 
jslator, I said "I'll take some credit." You wanna' put words in my mouth and cut and paste little made-up sentences so you can make a point - go for it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I made a pretty big, open and honest apology a few posts back.

Metal or plastic, there's still enough things about the RNP to make the total package @ $500 unimpressive to me. I think it's great that Harvey called Mark. The fact that the RNP is actually metal was not obvious enough to anyone over the few days of these threads.

When someone makes only glowing comments, people criticize them for not being honest. It seems, too, that if someone writes something less than glowing, the motivation is suspect as well.

Look, I don't have to be gaga about this preamp. I don't have to like the 6db increments on the input gain. I don't have to like the 1/4" outs. I don't have to like that FMR Audio has been the most unresponsive company in the industry to my inquiries. I don't have to like the fact that the RNP is decribed by FMR Audio as an "exceptionally clear, transparent sounding mic pre-amp" - when it's not.

I haven't ever said the RNP sucks, but it hasn't broken any real ground, IMO. If it was $200 or $179 like the RNC, then, yes, I'd look at the box in a whole different light.

Still, it's a very good pre with a particular sound. The bottom line for me is that this product does not excite me. That's my unbiased opinion. I have absolutely nothing to gain or lose by liking or not liking the RNP.

Keep in mind - THIS IS PERSONAL PREFERENCE. Take the whole fucking thing with a big grain of salt.
 
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