My home recording studio ideas. Here's the scoop.

[snow lizard]

my head is cluttered with a whole bunch of info right now...it could be I do know...I just don't know it.

That's a good point, and it's where the learning curve really begins.

Cheywind and SMX Dizzy - don't be intimidated by learning stuff. A lot of it's common sense, but I'm beginning to think that you guys are getting confused, just because there's some simple basic stuff missing. If you want, I can go into detail, from the beginning, on how to record on a Digital Audio Workstation, or DAW, which is just a fancy, short name for a computer set up to do some serious audio work. I think it might help. I hope so, anyway.

This is really newbie material, but that shouldn't be too much of a big deal in this forum I hope.

This is the beginning, it's important, and it can help you decide what you need to buy and what you don't.

It's called the Recording Chain. A sample recording chain would look something like this - I'll use drums with one microphone to a DAW as an example:

1.) the song
2.) the musician, or performance
3.) the drums
4.) microphone
5.) preamp
6.) audio interface, or soundcard
7.) the computer

In this imaginary chain, there are 7 links. Everything follows a logical order. The stuff that comes first is the most important. Stuff that comes after is still important, but less so. A great song recorded on a cheap boom box is still a great song. This might seem too basic, but you're going to hear it repeated a lot.

Even though stuff that comes after is less important, it's still important. The computer doesn't matter much compared to everything else, but at a minimum it has to be compatable with everything you want to do with it. Some computers are finicky with hardware, or multitasking, USB drivers or whatever. The biggest, fastest, friendliest computer will be more enjoyable, but it's not absolutely critical. 7200 RPM hard disk, bigger hard disk is better, adequate and compatable RAM (I think Win98 has a maximum, but usually more RAM is always better) and anything over around a 300 megahertz processor will record. It might be damn slow with plugins, and it might stall if you try to run too many tracks at once, but the quality comes from the soundcard before that. Soundcard is more important.

Now let's say I made a longer chain - we'll throw in a compressor, an EQ, a sonic maximizer (whatever that is...) a mixing desk and a de-esser. Now we've got 12 links instead of 7. The electronic links only start at 4, so now we've got 9 pieces of gear plugged in, instead of 4. Every single piece of gear in that chain will add its own bit of noise and muck to the signal, so the shorter the chain is, the cleaner it is. Add to this that you can do mixing, compression and EQ, reverb and a whole bunch of other stuff (the virtual rack) in the computer after the signal is recorded as clean as possible, with few, but good quality hardware things. Makes it seem less necessary I hope?

The tone of your recordings will be influenced by what gear you have, and what post production tricks you know, like EQ and stuff. A lot of people make the mistake of thinking they can fix it later with post production, but an EQ can not give you what was never there to begin with most of the time.

For example, if you've got 4 year old pinstripes with a few rolls of tape on them on your drums, it will sound nothing like a well tuned drum kit with no dampening whatsoever, and brand new coated Ambassadors. EQ can't give you that.

Right here, I'd like to point out that I'm no pro at this. I'm just a home recording guy, but I've done my best to learn the basics and many of the pros on this forum have helped me, knowingly or not, just from being here and sharing their knowledge. Also, I've learned quite a lot of basics. Nobody knows everything, so the more people that help out the better. I'm here to learn too.

Does this make any sense? Is it too confusing? is it too basic? Any questions on what I just typed?

For the next step, I think it might be good to mention a couple of basic things about microphones, and different types of signals, and how they're compatable or not with different equipment, and what to do about it.

Should I continue?


sl

 

[cheywind]

That's a good point, and it's where the learning curve really begins.

Cheywind and SMX Dizzy - don't be intimidated by learning stuff. A lot of it's common sense, but I'm beginning to think that you guys are getting confused, just because there's some simple basic stuff missing. If you want, I can go into detail, from the beginning, on how to record on a Digital Audio Workstation, or DAW, which is just a fancy, short name for a computer set up to do some serious audio work. I think it might help. I hope so, anyway.

This is really newbie material, but that shouldn't be too much of a big deal in this forum I hope.

This is the beginning, it's important, and it can help you decide what you need to buy and what you don't.

It's called the Recording Chain. A sample recording chain would look something like this - I'll use drums with one microphone to a DAW as an example:

1.) the song
2.) the musician, or performance
3.) the drums
4.) microphone
5.) preamp
6.) audio interface, or soundcard
7.) the computer

In this imaginary chain, there are 7 links. Everything follows a logical order. The stuff that comes first is the most important. Stuff that comes after is still important, but less so. A great song recorded on a cheap boom box is still a great song. This might seem too basic, but you're going to hear it repeated a lot.

Even though stuff that comes after is less important, it's still important. The computer doesn't matter much compared to everything else, but at a minimum it has to be compatable with everything you want to do with it. Some computers are finicky with hardware, or multitasking, USB drivers or whatever. The biggest, fastest, friendliest computer will be more enjoyable, but it's not absolutely critical. 7200 RPM hard disk, bigger hard disk is better, adequate and compatable RAM (I think Win98 has a maximum, but usually more RAM is always better) and anything over around a 300 megahertz processor will record. It might be damn slow with plugins, and it might stall if you try to run too many tracks at once, but the quality comes from the soundcard before that. Soundcard is more important.

Now let's say I made a longer chain - we'll throw in a compressor, an EQ, a sonic maximizer (whatever that is...) a mixing desk and a de-esser. Now we've got 12 links instead of 7. The electronic links only start at 4, so now we've got 9 pieces of gear plugged in, instead of 4. Every single piece of gear in that chain will add its own bit of noise and muck to the signal, so the shorter the chain is, the cleaner it is. Add to this that you can do mixing, compression and EQ, reverb and a whole bunch of other stuff (the virtual rack) in the computer after the signal is recorded as clean as possible, with few, but good quality hardware things. Makes it seem less necessary I hope?

The tone of your recordings will be influenced by what gear you have, and what post production tricks you know, like EQ and stuff. A lot of people make the mistake of thinking they can fix it later with post production, but an EQ can not give you what was never there to begin with most of the time.

For example, if you've got 4 year old pinstripes with a few rolls of tape on them on your drums, it will sound nothing like a well tuned drum kit with no dampening whatsoever, and brand new coated Ambassadors. EQ can't give you that.

Right here, I'd like to point out that I'm no pro at this. I'm just a home recording guy, but I've done my best to learn the basics and many of the pros on this forum have helped me, knowingly or not, just from being here and sharing their knowledge. Also, I've learned quite a lot of basics. Nobody knows everything, so the more people that help out the better. I'm here to learn too.

Does this make any sense? Is it too confusing? is it too basic? Any questions on what I just typed?

For the next step, I think it might be good to mention a couple of basic things about microphones, and different types of signals, and how they're compatable or not with different equipment, and what to do about it.

Should I continue?


sl

SL - please continue - this is great - you are making sense - definetely a blue print to work with - this is great! No questions yet - but I know they will be coming - right now some of the clutter in my head is fading away.
CheyWind

 

[SMX_Dizzy]

YES! Please do! You are one of the most helpful ppl on her, and we both really appreciate it...more than you think!

Anyway...posted is a picture of the Audiophile 2496...the card I'm almost positive I'm going to get. I have two sets of jacks circled--labeled 1 and 2. Which set is the RCA jacks? I'm thinking that 1 is the RCA jacks and 2 is the S/PDIF jacks. Having the RCA jacks would be good b/c then I could connect my studio monitors directly to my system. BUT it says in the description that they use RCA and 1/4 inputs...so does that mean you HAVE to use BOTH?...or would you just have to use one or the other (RCA in my case)? And I recall someone saying that 1/4 is better than RCA on monitors, but I'm not sure that this is true. IF it is, tell me, cuz then I'll just get some adapters...but if it doesnt matter, i'll just use the RCAs.

AND ALSO: Should I just make my rack starting w/ the Firepod and add more rack parts later? I think I should get the hang of everything and then move into more parts to make better recordings and such, rather than buy more racks parts up front. This will also be good to just buy the Firepod first b/c it is a rather expensive purchase for me, so I think it'll be better to get more parts later anyway. I was thinking maybe a graphic equalizer b/c u can only do so much in Cubase SE, and w/ a GE, you can get up to 31 bands. That's just what I was thinking, but I'll wait.

I'm very close to making up my mind on my recording studio. I have all the ppl that posted on here to thank. Please keep posting with more info and/or input. AND STOP saying "don't get the Audigy" ........I GET IT!!!! I'm pretty sure I'm getting the Audiophile.

Thanks again, and keep posting!

 

[Halion]

1 are indeed the audio input and output RCA connections, and 2 are the S/PDIF connections. As far I know, the Audiophile does not have 1/4 connections. You can just plug the output of a preamp into an RCA input on the soundcard, and you active monitors can go straight from the RCA outputs to the monitors.

 

[CavityCr33p]

I totally agree with the comments on the creative cards, don't get them.

Now....the samson monitors is a different story. My friend just grabbed some of these not long ago and I can say that they sound good, very comparable to Truth monitors IMO.

and no, I am not a newbie, recording for 13 years, PC recording for 8.

They may not be the best monitors in the world, but they do give a nice clean sound for the price they are offered.

As far as the card, atleast go with a audiophile 2496 or one of the Terratec cards (hey! I still use one, the ewx 2496 isnt that bad!)

 

[snow lizard]

Dizz -

The sets of jacks you've circled BOTH look like RCA to me. Starting with the Firepod would be a good idea, and I'm still not clear on why you'd want both the Firepod and the Audiophile - the Firepod seems to be able to do everything you want.

RCA cables are usually not as good because the cable is smaller than a 1/4" cable. With cables, usually the bigger the better.


sl

 

[snow lizard]

OK, Microphones. Here we go.

For starting out, there's 2 different types of microphones you should be interested in. There's also a 3rd type that you should probably avoid for now, but you'll hear about it when you do more research.

To start, let's look at guitar pickups. Most of the guitars you look at have passive pickups. All it is is a magnet with a coil of very thin wire wrapped around it. When you pluck a string, it vibrates. The vibration is picked up by the magnetic field, and the wire on the magnet converts this mechanical vibration into electricity. Because you're converting one form of energy (a sound wave, or the mechanical vibration) into another form of energy (electricity) this device is called a transducer. A transducer is anything that converts one form of energy to another.

With a passive pickup system like this, the system does not need to be supplied with electricity.

You can also get guitar pickups that need a battery to operate, because they have no magnet. These are called active pickups. The guitar will use a 9 volt battery to supply the power. You can also get a guitar with passive pickups, but with an active preamp built into the guitar. You also need a battery for this type of system, to power the preamp. It will boost the output of the pickups, and give you way more powerful tone controls. There is no one system that is better, because it comes down to what you like. You can't get all the tone choices from any one system.

Microphones are very similar to this in some ways. The "pickup" in a microphone is called the capsule, or in the case of ribbon mics, "element". This is the transducer part.

Don't worry about ribbon mics when you're just starting out - you can learn about these later.

The 2 types of mics you should be looking at to start out are dynamic mics, and condenser mics.

A dynamic mic is similar in some ways to a speaker. The transducer capsule has a magnet, and a coil of wire. This is a passive microphone - it needs no power. Dynamic microphones are good at picking up sounds from close to the microphone, and they're very rugged and durable - more so than any other type of mic. Some dynamic mics like the Shure SM57 are very good on just about any sound source. A mic like this is usually never the best on anything, but they're versatile enough that you can record a lot of things well with them, so they get classified as instrument mics.

A condenser mic is very different. First, this is an active type of microphone. Some of the cheap condenser mics will use a battery to get the power, but these aren't always very good mics. Condenser microphones are very good at picking up sounds from far away. They have much more range than dynamic mics, and their response to a sound signal is much faster. They usually pick up high frequency sounds very easily, and they almost always have more range, from high to low frequencies, than dynamic mics. Cymbals on a drum kit are a good example of a high frequency source that has fast transients, or very percussive sounds happening. Because of this, condensers are usually very good at picking up all kinds of percussion - especially cymbals, but you can get a good impression of an entire drum kit with a pair of overhead condenser mics. They're more sensitive to air movement, so it's not a good idea to place one inside a kick drum, and it's never a good idea to blow into any microphone. You could damage a condenser mic like this.

If you blow into a ribbon mic, chances are very good that you'll break the mic instantly. They are the most fragile.

The standard type of connector for a microphone is called an XLR connector. It's best to use XLR cables for your mics, and plug them into XLR inputs on a mixer or preamp. One reason is that this type of cable is balanced. A standard balanced cable has a pair of wires inside that's twisted together. There is an outer shield that protects the 2 signal wires from noise. Regardless, it's still possible for the 2 twisted wires to pick up noise, but because the balanced type of circuit operates like AC or Alternating Current, instead of DC or Direct Current, and because the wires are twisted together, any noise that's picked up by one of the wires will automatically be transfered to the other wire as well. The best part is that the 2 noise signals cancel each other out, so there is very little if any noise in your signal. You can run balanced cables over very long distances without fear of getting hum or noise, as long as they're not mixed up with power or speaker cables. Audio cables should always be kept separate. Speaker cables should also be kept separate.

When using condenser mics, you need to use balanced cables, because that's how they get the power to make them work. The preamp or mixer that you connect the mic to should have a switch on it somewhere that says Phantom Power. The standard level of power is 48 volts. Sometimes you can find preamps that don't have 48v phantom power - it might be 24v or something else. The microphone you use will still work usually, but not quite as well - it's best to stay with 48v phantom power.

With phantom power, the same 2 wires that carry the mic signal to the preamp also carry the power in the other direction, to the microphone. It won't interfere with the audio signal at all. If you supply phantom power to a dynamic mic, it doesn't need it. If the mic is wired correctly, it will just ignore the power - it won't change the sound, or hurt the mic.

With dynamic mics, you could sometimes get a cable that goes from XLR at the mic end, to 1/4" at the preamp end. This type of cable will unbalance the signal, but it will start to pick up unwanted interference and noise if the cable gets too long. 20 feet is usually considered the maximum, but shorter cables are always better, for any type of cable.

Now we need to look at different types of signals. Professional microphones are called Low Impedence mics. You have to read the specs for your equipment to find out what's going on exactly, but usually an XLR mic input is low impedence. A 1/4" input is usually for instruments, and they're usually called high impedence. If you need to plug a professional mic into a high impedence 1/4" jack, one way to do it is with a special type of adapter called an Impedence matching Transformer. This will unbalance the signal, but also convert to high impedence for you - the cable won't. Your mic might sound better, depending on what the actual impedences are, and how compatable they are.

Another thing to look at is levels. There are generally 3 types - microphone level inputs, line level inputs for instruments like a guitar or keyboard, and line level for consumer equipment like stereos or tape decks. Mic level is usually around -20dB. dB is short for decibel, which describes Sound Pressure Level or SPL. This means volume, or loudness.

Mic level is -20dB
Instrument line level is +4dB
Consumer line level is +20dB

Because all of these levels work in different ranges and impedences, something could sound really wonky if there is a level mismatch going on. Soundcards like my M-Audio Delta 44 can set the levels of the inputs and/or outputs to -10dB, +4dB or +10dB. The levels correspond to the same levels above, but they're different because digital audio is different from analog audio. Doesn't matter; close enough. Some powered monitors will also have a switch on them so you can use them with different types of signals. If you know you're running a +4dB signal into your monitors, and the monitors are set to accept a -20dB signal, they will be louder, but at the risk of distortion. Set them to +4dB, and then everything is matched well enough that they should not distort as easily. Distortion is the easiest way to kill a speaker!

This is intended as a basic introduction. For more information about this stuff, you should look at some online articels. Many manufacturers have educational material on their websites. Click here for some articles by Audio Technica about some of the things in this post.


Next, you should learn about preamps and gain staging, but study the microphone sections on the AT site well first before we get into that.


sl

 

[SMX_Dizzy]

wow...that was incredible Snow Lizard!!! I'm going to read that AT site right now. I'll post later when I get home from school about my major questions, b/c i do have some.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! That was awesome...you are definitely one of the biggest helpers around here. Without you and Halion and some other insightful members, I would've made one crappy DAW.

Thanks again...I'll be back later.

 

[snow lizard]

If the articles I pointed to at the Audio Technica site opened up questions about different types of pickup patterns (omni, cardioid or figure 8), phase cancellation, mono compatability and stereo recording techniques, this is good. To be a good recordist, you gotta understand how the microphones work. For one thing, they are some of your very best tone controls. For now, it might seem like an overwhelming barrage of information, or not. Anyway, I'm more concerned about getting everything plugged in and working properly - later on, there's a lot more information out there about how mics work. There's also one really good thread that goes into detail better than I can that's on this site somewhere. Have patience, take one bit at a time, and everything should start to become clearer.


sl

 

[SMX_Dizzy]

I've been looking into a large diaphram studio mic for the vocals and guitar/bass (amp/cabinet) recordings, and condensers for the drum overheads. I'll post links to the ones I'm looking at tomorrow.

Please post input if the large diaphram studio mic is a good coice for vocals and guitars. I read some reviews and it sounded like it's excellent for both.

KEEP POSTING!!!

 

[SMX_Dizzy]

any takers on suggestions on mics?

 

[snow lizard]

any takers on suggestions on mics?

For drum overheads, small condensers work well. Something like the MXL 603s might work well for you - they're inexpensive and they sound ok. Mics like this are handy to have in pairs, so you can do stereo recording. They would also work pretty good on an acoustic guitar.

I don't know what kind of mic budget you have, but large diaphragm condensers are overhyped as far as I can tell. There are 3,000 different models, and they're a very popular discussion topic.

Don't forget about dynamic mics. A Shure SM57 is perfect for learning how to record. It's a great quality mic, even though it's inexpensive. These mics are very popular for snare drum and electric guitar because of how they sound, but they can also work for anything else if you don't have something better. Sometimes it's a great vocal mic. Everyone has a different voice, so there's no one microphone that sounds best for everyone. Also, dynamic mics are very durable and very useful on a stage

A good mic for recording bass might be helpful - something like an Audio Technica ATM25 for kick drum, bass and maybe vocals would be handy. Also, Sennheiser 421 or 441 mics are very good pro recording mics, and the Shure SM7 and Electro-Voice RE-20 are radio broadcast mics that sound good on kick drums. All of these mics will be versatile enough to record all kinds of stuff.

Large diaphragm condensers are a bit more finicky. Sometimes they sound the best on a certain kind of vocalist, but downright bad on other vocalists, or for a wide variety of instruments. A Shure SM7 has been described as one of the best large diaphragm condensers, even though it's a dynamic mic.


Here's what I'd look for if I had to start over:

- Shure SM57

Cheap, durable workhorse dynamic for snare, guitar amp and anything else I might need it for

- A pair of cardioid pencil mics

MXL 603s or Rode NT5 or Studio Projects C4 or Shure SM81

With 3 mics, you can be well on your way to making some great recordings. Later on when there's more cash, I might look for:

- A very good dynamic mic with some bass response

Shure SM7 or Electro-Voice RE-20 or Sennheiser 441 or 421 or Audio Technica ATM25

- "Maybe" a large condenser

- more of those good dynamic mics - different ones


Some people might have a different approach to building their mic locker. You should do a search for reviews on these things to see what people who use them have to say about them before you buy. When buying an expensive mic, it might be a good idea to borrow or rent one first to see if it's going to do what you want before you shell out the big $$$.


My $0.02...


sl

 

[snow lizard]

A mic signal is very low. We need a way to control the signal before we can record it. That's exactly what a mic preamp does. It should have an XLR low impedence input, a 1/4" high impedence input and a special kind of volume knob with the word Gain written on it. The preamp should also be able to supply 48v phantom power. Fancy ones may also have a few switches, like a Pad button or some other stuff. It may also have some kind of metering so you can see where your signal level is - a VU meter, or an LED light array maybe. Another handy thing is a clip light, which is a single red LED.

So really, a preamp is just a volume control so you can bring any mic signal up to line level for the soundcard, regardless of if you're recording a very loud drum kit or a Marshall guitar amp, or a very quiet vocalist, or a shaker or tambourine or something. It gives the control you need to match all these levels properly, which then goes into how you set your levels and gain staging.

A good preamp can cost anywhere from less than $40.00 per channel to more than $2,000.00 per channel. As the prices suggest, there's a big difference in features, components and quality, and of course sound quality. It's still just a volume knob, but it's a very important one.

I'm pretty cheap, so let's go look at this thing. Scroll down to where it says S-8 - 8 Channel Mixing Console and click the link.

This is one of the cheapest preamps on the market, but it does everything on the list. Better preamps will make all of your microphones sound better, they will give you cleaner power and more headroom. Even still, these preamps give you 60dB of gain. This should be plenty to work with for most applications. Pres to be used with ribbon mics will usually have a bit of extra gain. The gain knob on this particular mixer is labeled "Trim" instead. In this case, it actually means Gain.

If you have Adobe Acrobat or some kind of PDF viewer on your computer, download the PDF file for the manual for this mixer and read it. There's some interesting stuff in here, and a lot of it is common to any mixer or preamp. Don't worry so much about the hype on the website. A lot of manufacturers have that.

Since this is a dirt cheap mixer, and since there are a few different ways to hook it up, I'll describe one that usually works very well.

The first 4 channels on this board have what's called an "Insert" jack. Inserts like this are made for a special type of effects loop. The signal chain within the board might look something like this:

1.) Mic input & preamp
2.) Equalizer
3.) Fader
4.) Bussing system

At this point, the signal could be carried to a few other places like monitor outputs, main outputs or the headphone amp.

The way the Insert point works is, it operates as an effects loop send and return with a single jack. The jack is 1/4" TRS. Specific to this mixer, the tip sends the signal to the effect and the ring returns the signal to the board. You need to make a special type of "Y" cable to make it work, and this cable will work with most of the insert points on mixers or preamps. You get 2 1/4" TS plugs that go to a single TRS plug. The cables are unbalanced. The shields get joined together at the TRS plug. The send and return signals go to either the tip or the ring of the TRS plug respectively.

If you were to hook up a reverb or a compressor or something like this, the signal path would change.

1a.) mic pre
1b.) reverb or something
2.) equalizer
3.) fader
4.) bus

Now if you go to page 16 or 17 of the manual for the Alto S-8, it's got wiring diagrams for 2 types of cables: the "Y" cable, and also a special type of 1/4" TRS to 1/4" TS cable that you can use to make the insert point work like a direct output after the preamp. If you have a mixer with mic preamps on it, and insert points after the mic preamps, you can isolate the mic preamps on any of these consoles to give you a direct output - to go straight into a soundcard or whatever. This will bypass the rest of the mixer - the EQ won't work usually.

The good thing about bypassing the rest of a mixer for recording is that it will always knock a huge chunk of noise off of the signal. The EQ in this mixer is almost guaranteed to suck. All of the extra op amps and circuitry within the board will add noise that you don't need. You're better off with a quiet signal than an EQ that doesn't work very well. You can do this on any mixer with insert points. Some don't have inserts.

For the Alto S-8, if you don't need the signal from your microphone in the rest of the board, you can just use a regular 1/4" instrument cable. TS to TS - no need to make anything special. Plug it all the way in. The signal will go to your soundcard, but the return path will be ground. Nothing. No signal. If you don't really need a signal there, it's not a big deal.

On other mixing consoles, people have often done similar things. On my Allen & Heath, the insert point works where ring=send, instead of tip=send. You can plug a regular TS cable in to the "first click", leave it sticking out 3/16" or so, and get the direct out signal, and the signal still stays live through the board. It does the same thing - it knocks about 15dB of noise off of the signal. That's a relatively huge chunk of noise.

There's also mixers where they have direct outputs on the channels. Sometimes using an insert point on a console is the only way to go, because that might be the only way to get enough isolated preamps to go into your recorder - aside from the noise benefits. On a mixer with a direct out, you can isolate any channel, but it still gives you the EQ (if you need it) and you can use the insert point to add something else like a compressor if you wanted to. A good mixer with a useable EQ and direct outs might be something like a small Allen & Heath Mixwizard. It's much more expensive than the Alto, but better quality. This still isn't a big studio preamp, but it can give you 10 or so decent pres for about the price of one pro quality pre. Failing that, a Behringer or Alto still works, but it's less exciting. Knowing where you can set your levels will help a lot, regardless of what you're using.

Another advantage to using a mixer as a preamp is that it gives you a headphone amp for monitoring. You can take a pair of unused channels and run a stereo signal back into the mixer - hook your monitors up to the mixer if you want, but you don't have to. It gives you another option, plus the headphone amp for hearing a click track or a song while you're recording the next part. A good, loud pair of isolation headphones will come in handy.

Anyway, if you plan to get an Alto mixer or some other mixer or not, it's good to learn how to plug stuff in. That way, you can use just about anything you want. The S-8 manual will cover some of the basics, so it's good reading.

Something like the Firepod makes things a bit easier to start with because it has built-in preamps, but it makes you wonder if you're ever going to upgrade. It should still work fine, but a half decent sound card and anything for pres might be a bit more modular. There's LOTS of stuff on the market, so researching your options is always good. On the other hand, it does everything you need, so it might be the perfect fit.

Next is gain staging, which means everything's plugged in and we set the levels to start to record.


sl

 

[cheywind]

What do you think of the Peavey 8 mixer?

 

[snow lizard]

That Peavey looks very similar to the Alto S-8. It might be a good front end to a Delta 44 or something if you're on a budget or just starting out, as long as it's really cheap. I like these boards over the Behringers, because the Behringers in this league don't seem to have insert points.


sl

 

[brett304]

Reply

Don't be afraid to admit when you don't know something... Realize early that it is dangerous to see a piece of gear as the "answer" and when you do, it MUST be something that is a very thought out decision and not a defense mechanism... Not pointing the finger at anyone but really just trying to point anyone who comes across this thread in the right direction...

If you feel that you only need 4 imputs then feel free to go with almost ANY of the 100-150 dollar prosumer cards... Many will have preamps built in and will give you a very good quality... If you definitely feel like you need 8 sepearate tracks then the FirePod definitely has great reviews.

IF the card that you get does not have the amount of preamps you need, then you can always start out with something like the Nady PRA-8 that has 8 (probably low quality pres) and you could always add whatever pre that you want as you go... They come in 1,2,4,8 sets at a time (usually rackmountable) so you could feel free to start with the Nady for $100 and go all the way up to thousands of dollars for one...

I definitely think that you're best off starting simple... Learn every piece of equipment you have to it's fullest potential and correctly identify the pieces that you could benefit from adding to your arsenal... It was said earlier that a good recording artist can make a great recording from the most modest of gear... You can get a better recording with any home computer than most people would believe...

About the whole Midi thing, feel free to get a seperate piece for midi as most prosumer audio cards will stick to what they're good at... Most of the time in this world a jack of all trades is known for being the master of none... What you want is a streamlined system of decent to professional level pieces that will lead you to better recordings... Follow the earlier post that mentioned the signal chain system and work your way from the front and then later learn to streamline your system... Good luck

 

[snow lizard]

IF the card that you get does not have the amount of preamps you need, then you can always start out with something like the Nady PRA-8 that has 8 (probably low quality pres) and you could always add whatever pre that you want as you go... They come in 1,2,4,8 sets at a time (usually rackmountable) so you could feel free to start with the Nady for $100 and go all the way up to thousands of dollars for one...

I definitely think that you're best off starting simple... Learn every piece of equipment you have to it's fullest potential and correctly identify the pieces that you could benefit from adding to your arsenal... It was said earlier that a good recording artist can make a great recording from the most modest of gear... You can get a better recording with any home computer than most people would believe...

I really like this idea. Spending very little money on a preamp will allow someone to focus on other stuff. You could always spend more, but getting a "middle of the road" pre might not work any miracles, and you may have been able to buy mics or save up for a truly nice preamp with the difference in cost.

As an example, I've often read that the Grace 101 is a fine quality pre. It costs around $600.00, and gives you one channel with no bells and whistles. You could spend as much, or more, on something that won't give you the same quality, but getting a similar level of quality very often will cost more.

Once you get to high end preamps, there are different flavours. There's clean, transparent preamps for accurate sound that work well for certain things, and there's Rock n Roll preamps will give you a more agressive sound. What's "right" is a matter of taste, and what you're doing. A lot of the pros use all kinds of different preamps the same way that different mics are used for whatever application you need 'em.

For a start, don't sweat it too much. You need a volume knob. I like some of the really cheap stuff, and I like some of the pro stuff, but I'm not too hyped on the stuff in between. That's just me... you might be lucky to find someone with more specific experience with some of the gear you're looking for. Everyone's ideas should be worth considering.

I've still got a rant on gain staging if anyone's interested. How you use the volume knob is more important than what kind it is, always.


sl

 

[SMX_Dizzy]

Hey guys. Thanks for the ideas. I've been in Austin, Texas for the weekend, so i haven't had much time to be on here.....but i have some questions!!! Don't worry, i'll probably post tomorrow! KEEP POSTIN!

 

[snow lizard]

I went to the Nady site and had a look at the PRA-8.

Seems like a cheap price for a preamp, and they claim 75dB of gain, which is good. If someone wanted to use this as the main pre for a DAW, it should be pointed out that there are no 1/4" inputs. If you wanted to record a bass or a keyboard by plugging in to the recorder, you'd either have to go straight into the soundcard, or use a direct box to get a low impedence XLR signal into the pre. You'd also need a separate headphone amp.

On the other hand, a small mixer usually has 1/4" inputs and a headphone amp. There's always tradeoffs.


sl

 

[snow lizard]

Gain Staging

Gain Staging

Let's say we've got a DAW all put together, and it's time to record. Gain staging is about how you set all your levels. The best practice to start with is to get the most gain, or signal level as early in the recording chain as possible, as long as there's no distortion. Here's a couple of examples:

I usually turn the computer on first, then the preamp, and the monitors last. The monitors go off first before anything else. This is to protect them against a loud pop that just might kill them really quick. If the mics and monitors are to be used in the same room, I'd leave the monitors off.

Before the mics get plugged in, turn the Gain or Trim control on your preamp right down to nothing. If you're fortunate enough to be using a board that has a PFL button, push the button to kill the signal after the preamp. Make sure your phantom power is on if you're using a condenser. Play the drums, and gradually bring the level up until the clip light starts to blink. This is around where the preamp wil start to distort, so you back the gain control off a bit. The occasional blip from the light is usually ok for a lot of signals, but most of the time you don't want to set less gain than that. Once you get used to your recorded sound, you'll be able to get a better idea of where to set your levels. If you hear any distortion, it might have to come down a bit more. You can leave a little bit of headroom, but not too much. If the light stays on or blinks a lot, you're way too loud and it will distort.

Now if you have a PFL, disengage it. Open your recording software in the computer, and monitor the record level from the sound meters in the program. Again, play the drums or whatever so you can see the signal on the meters. The manual for your software should be able to explain how to do this. Again, if you have monitors, they should be off, or else your level controls are down.

Using the level controls for your soundcard from within the computer, and watching the recording level in your recording software, gradually bring the level up to around -10dB. In digital audio, you can't go over 0dB, or you'll start to get horrible distortion. Anything under 0dB will work, but very often people will set their levels too high. Especially with drum overheads, there are a lot of fast transient sounds coming through that have a lot of high frequency response. Your meters might not catch them, so you won't even be able to see where the transients are peaking. If your levels are too high, then in a good case it will lead to a bit of harshness and distortion. In a bad case, it could destroy your tweeters in the monitors, or your hearing. Turning the level down from the soundcard will help to get rid of some extra hiss and noise. Setting the levels at around -10dB maximum will give the track some headroom to breathe - you'll be safe from distortion, and this will help to control the transients and some of the dynamics for you.

For setting other levels like vocals or something, you might be able to go a bit higher - but it's not always necessary. Once you get familiar with mixing your songs, you'll quickly find that once you've got a few instruments playing back at the same time - drums, bass, guitars, keyboards, vocals - everything adds up and you have to bring some of the instruments down in level to keep the overall levels reasonable. If this happens a lot, or if you have to really bring some of the levels down, you might be recording too loud. You can always adjust your levels up or down when you mix, but if you record a track that distorts there's nothing you can do to correct it. Recording at low levels will give you better sound and more control. An extra benefit is that if you start to play harder around half way through the song, and you didn't notice that now your levels are reaching -8dB and peaking at -5dB, you should still be able to work with the track. If you set your levels to -3dB to start, right away you have less control and poorer sound quality, but the louder sections will clip and distort - the track will be useless and you'll need to re-record it.

Now let's look at a different recording chain where all of the levels are set differently. We'll add a compressor and an EQ after the mic pre just for fun. Let's say you're monitoring the signal in the DAW the whole time. Let's also say that you're using a fancy condenser mic that has a pad switch on it to record an acoustic guitar from 2 feet away.

Engage the pad switch on the mic to drop 15dB (or so) gain off the mic signal. Bring the preamp up until the clip light just blips once, and then whatever your level is, cut it in half. Now let's say that this is giving you around -30dB signal in the DAW. Boost the makeup gain level from the compressor to bring the signal up to about -22dB, boost again with the EQ to bring it to -16dB and boost again with the soundcard to get -10dB if you can.

This second approach is wrong, because everything's backwards. The preamp will make a bit of noise. It shouldn't be very much, but it will be easier to find with a low level setting. The compressor will add its own noise, and when you bring the level up it will amplify the small bit of noise from the preamp. Now that you have lots of noise, the signal goes to the EQ, it adds its own noise and amplifies all the noise from the last time. The track will end up having way too much noise. These are gain staging mistakes.

Never use a pad switch on a mic unless the sound source is so loud that it makes the mic distort. You'd have to be recording something that's very very loud to need the pad. Examples might be close micing drums, a cranked up Marshall guitar amp or a trombone or something with the mic right in fromt of the bell. Most mics don't even have a pad switch.

Crank the gain up on the preamp as much as you can, and back it off just a bit to give you just a small amount of headroom, but with a big healthy loud signal that won't distort.

For a cleaner signal, use a shorter chain with no EQ or compressor running after the pre. If you want to run this other stuff anyway, don't boost the signal with it.

Set your final recording level with a LOT of headroom, especially if you're going to be recording a lot of tracks, and always with a signal that has high end transients like cymbals or drum overheads. It might surprise you that you might still have to tweak some of the levels down when you mix to keep the overall level under 0 dB.

All this stuff will give you clean, healthy signal levels that won't distort, and will be easier to control and mix later. The only trade off is that if you have a song that has a lot of dynamics - let's say you've got 17 recorded tracks but it just starts with a single acoustic guitar - if you've got 16 open mics that aren't recording anything yet but they're turned on in the mix, the small amount of noise from all the tracks will add up and you'll be able to hear a bit of hiss in the background. Using a wave editor in the computer, you can select each track individually and highlight portions of it that you want to edit. You can highlight just the silent parts and use the amplify function to reduce the volume of these parts (the small amount of hiss that adds up) to nothing (no hiss). The loudness of the instrument will mask the background hiss that's there. The quiet sections of just one instrument shouldn't have a lot of hiss anyway - it's only when you add up a lot of tracks that it becomes annoying.

Now you're ready to push the big red button and start recording.

Things that will help your recordings will be learning about different mic placement techniques and selecting the right mics for the job. This is a better tone control than EQing something later when mixing. Learn how compression works. A compressor sounds best when you can't hear it. Learn some EQ tricks for mixing things - what frequencies you need to look at for what instruments, and how much you need to adjust those frequencies. Compare your recordings to CDs that you buy. Listen to your recordings on every type of sound system you can get access to. The monitors, your home stereo, a ghetto blaster, a car stereo, cheap computer speakers - anything. A good mix should sound ok on all types of stereo, not just the nice ones. Since car stereos always compromise the sound, very often they can reveal more things about your mix than other types.

This is very long-winded, but I hope the point comes across.


Are there any questions?


sl